Hitachi trains grounded

[Oldddudders]

50 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

And the WLL was something of a peculiar bit of electrification.  Plus the way in which it was used was - to my eyes - even more peculiar when units came to a stand on North pole bank to changeover from ohle to 3rd rail and vice versa.  However I suppose at least doing it that way avoided the possibility of carrying on with the pan up and inadvertently removing it as it hit the Westway bridge just after the overhead had come to an end and before the pan had time to auto-llower from o the overheight position (as happened with a 373 on one occasion after it had incorrectly left NPI on 25kv power). 

Not all 313 drivers bothered to come to a stand....

 

As for the pan being raised when it was least needed, ISTR a 319 doing that somewhere around Gipsy Hill or West Norwood in the first year?

[frobisher]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

But, back then, there was little or no territory in which 25kv and SR third rail electrification overlapped. There was therefore no anticipated scenario in which the two categories of unit would meet buffer-to-buffer.

 

Any disadvantage would therefore not become apparent, unlike the current situation, where units that are very similar to one another, and work over common routes, are either unable to couple at all, or cannot work together if they will.

 

Interoperability isn't the issue though - reinventing the wheel is a different matter... 

 

Because they wouldn't meet, you'd not have to prevent them working together as such (to prevent one or tuther getting dragged off juice etc)., so there was no real need to make them incompatible, and in theory BR could have simplified maintenance across all EMUs by using a greater number of common parts on the control side of things.

 

3 hours ago, rodent279 said:

AIUI, there are emu's around, with mechanically compatible couplers, that can couple up, but because of software that can't talk to each other, can't work the brakes from each other.

 

That's when you use the emergency airpipes isn't it?

[rodent279]

1 minute ago, frobisher said:

 

Interoperability isn't the issue though - reinventing the wheel is a different matter... 

 

Because they wouldn't meet, you'd not have to prevent them working together as such (to prevent one or tuther getting dragged off juice etc)., so there was no real need to make them incompatible, and in theory BR could have simplified maintenance across all EMUs by using a greater number of common parts on the control side of things.

 

 

That's when you use the emergency airpipes isn't it?

Do they have them?

[Mark Saunders]

1 hour ago, frobisher said:

 

Interoperability isn't the issue though - reinventing the wheel is a different matter... 

 

Because they wouldn't meet, you'd not have to prevent them working together as such (to prevent one or tuther getting dragged off juice etc)., so there was no real need to make them incompatible, and in theory BR could have simplified maintenance across all EMUs by using a greater number of common parts on the control side of things.

 

 

That's when you use the emergency airpipes isn't it?

No because the emergency air pipe is almost certainly just a main air one to allow an air supply to release parking brakes. The only EMU that has conventional air brakes to be towed dead are the Royal Mail units.

[RJS1977]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

Not all 313 drivers bothered to come to a stand....

 

As for the pan being raised when it was least needed, ISTR a 319 doing that somewhere around Gipsy Hill or West Norwood in the first year?

 

Didn't Triang come up with a mechanism to stop that sort of thing happening?

[jamie92208]

I think at least one Eurostar lost a pantograph going into Saltwood tunnel before HS1 was built.

 

Jamie

[Fat Controller]

5 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I think at least one Eurostar lost a pantograph going into Saltwood tunnel before HS1 was built.

 

Jamie

It wasn't in Saltwood Tunnel, but on the footbridge at Sandling station. The railman who looked after the station found part of an insulator outside the waiting room door. He had it encased in resin and 'plinthed', as part of his collection of railwayania in the Booking Hall.

[Pandora]

Possibly more than one event, it was a mess room topic of conversation,  a mangled pantograph in the cess on the up side, years before it was removed ,  and the perfect imprint of the pantograph head on the tunnel face stonework. so perfect it could have been the work of a Sculptor. So long ago I cannot name of  the Tunnel, but it was near Continental Junction, Folkestone to Ashford

Edited May 19, 2021 by Pandora

[rodent279]

9 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

It wasn't in Saltwood Tunnel, but on the footbridge at Sandling station. The railman who looked after the station found part of an insulator outside the waiting room door. He had it encased in resin and 'plinthed', as part of his collection of railwayania in the Booking Hall.

This one?

Could have been nasty if there were people on the bridge.

Edited May 19, 2021 by rodent279

[DY444]

On 18/05/2021 at 11:11, NIK said:

Hi,

 

Were the Class 33/1s only compatible with 3/4TCs trailer units?. Then the Class 33/1 could be controlled from the driving cab of the TC.

 

Perhaps you were thinking Class 73 Electro Diesels?.

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

On 18/05/2021 at 11:27, Dunsignalling said:

Possibly, but I once saw a 4REP+TC+TC+33/1 formation and the 33 was powering though it was on the back, and I inferred that the input from the driver of the REP was getting through to it. Also, 33/1s could often be seen awaiting the call as Woking's "Thunderbird", interchangeably with 73s.

 

On reflection, of course, there might have been a driver aboard the 33/1. AFAIK , a 33/1 could work in multiple with a 73 (though possibly not the first series), and those could work with EMus. By extrapolation, a 33/1 + EMu should function, even if it might rarely become necessary.

 

John  

 

23 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

Yes, sorry I took Class 33/1 to work with EMUs to mean the Class 33/1 could control the drive system of the EMU rather than the EMU driving cab being used to control the power unit of the Class 33/1.

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

23 hours ago, Not Captain Kernow said:

There were many booked workings with the 33/1 + TC + EMU combination.  The driver was located in the front cab of the train in whatever formation and controlled the EMU and the Class 33/1/.  It didn't matter if the 33 was at the back, front, or even in the middle, there was no need for a driver to be actually in the 33 unless it was leading.

 

Regular saturday booked working Portsmouth to Waterloo as below, 4-CIG + 4-TC + 33/1

 

 

33/1 could work in multiple with all SR EP emus and be positioned anywhere in the train. 

 

As has been observed this most commonly happened with VEPs and sometimes with CIGs.  It also happened with REP/TC formations from time to time.  I recall diversions between Eastleigh and Southampton via Romsey during the gauge enhancement work on Southampton tunnel with 33/1s working REP + 8TC formations.  The reversal at Romsey saw the locomotives both hauling and pushing on each journey. 

 

As an aside, performance on the 437 ton load was shall we say sluggish and it was very gloomy after dusk due to only having the emergency lights but 40 years later I can still vividly remember the lights blazing back on and the train taking off like a scalded cat towards Millbrook when the REP came back on the juice at Redbridge.

Edited May 19, 2021 by DY444

[DY444]

14 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I think at least one Eurostar lost a pantograph going into Saltwood tunnel before HS1 was built.

 

Jamie

 

9 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

It wasn't in Saltwood Tunnel, but on the footbridge at Sandling station. The railman who looked after the station found part of an insulator outside the waiting room door. He had it encased in resin and 'plinthed', as part of his collection of railwayania in the Booking Hall.

 

1 hour ago, Pandora said:

Possibly more than one event, it was a mess room topic of conversation,  a mangled pantograph in the cess on the up side, years before it was removed ,  and the perfect imprint of the pantograph head on the tunnel face stonework. so perfect it could have been the work of a Sculptor. So long ago I cannot name of  the Tunnel, but it was near Continental Junction, Folkestone to Ashford

 

It was the DC pantograph, a case of the voltage selector being inadvertently set to the wrong flavour of DC.  The offending pan eventually ended up in the training school at Waterloo as Exhibit A in "what happens if you don't take care when twiddling the voltage selector knob".

[Re6/6]

12 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

It wasn't in Saltwood Tunnel, but on the footbridge at Sandling station. The railman who looked after the station found part of an insulator outside the waiting room door. He had it encased in resin and 'plinthed', as part of his collection of railwayania in the Booking Hall.

Yes there are, or at least were, dents in the footbridge to prove it!

[Fat Controller]

2 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

What would a Eurostar have a DC pantograph for?

Belgium... (also S E France and the Netherlands)

Edited May 19, 2021 by Fat Controller

[jamie92208]

2 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Belgium... (also S E France and the Netherlands)

Yes, three different  DC voltages, 1500 forFrance and The Nethe regions, 3000 for Belgium and 750 ish for Kent. Some quite complicated pieces of kit. I believe that it was the Prezton works that got it all to work.

 

Back on thread, do I presume that services are sort of back to jormal now.

 

Jamie

[Dunsignalling]

17 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Yes, three different  DC voltages, 1500 forFrance and The Nethe regions, 3000 for Belgium and 750 ish for Kent. Some quite complicated pieces of kit. I believe that it was the Prezton works that got it all to work.

 

Back on thread, do I presume that services are sort of back to jormal now.

 

Jamie

Pre-crack-discovery normal, apparently (on GW at any rate) but I'm not sure if it's yet pre-Covid normal. Not having been on one of their trains since the 8xx took over completely, I'm not fully conversant with what the post-HST timetable is supposed to look like.

 

John

[RJS1977]

Unless a lot of units have been returned to service over the last few days, I doubt it's even pre-crack normal. Last I heard (earlier up the thread) it was still 37 in service out of 92,although the light loadings currently on some routes could mean some 5+5 pairs have been split to cover more services.

 

I intend to go up to Reading station this evening to see Clan Line - I might get a better indication of the situation while I'm there.

Edited May 19, 2021 by RJS1977

[caradoc]

Pre-Covid GWR planned some 'Superfast' Paddington/Bristol TM via Parkway services, full introduction of these is postponed until December this year. Most of the Paddington/Cardiff (as opposed to Swansea) services also remain suspended. 

 

[rodent279]

14 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

Unless a lot of units have been returned to service over the last few days, I doubt it's even pre-crack normal. Last I heard (earlier up the thread) it was still 37 in service out of 92,although the light loadings currently on some routes could mean some 5+5 pairs have been split to cover more services.

 

I intend to go up to Reading station this evening to see Clan Line - I might get a better indication of the situation while I'm there.

Clan Line through Reading? Where's that to?

[Mike_Walker]

1 hour ago, RJS1977 said:

Unless a lot of units have been returned to service over the last few days, I doubt it's even pre-crack normal. Last I heard (earlier up the thread) it was still 37 in service out of 92,although the light loadings currently on some routes could mean some 5+5 pairs have been split to cover more services.

 

I intend to go up to Reading station this evening to see Clan Line - I might get a better indication of the situation while I'm there.

You might not see much of Clan Line at Reading, its going back via Salisbury!  See https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C05937/2021-05-19/detailed

 

[Steadfast]

2 hours ago, Mike_Walker said:

You might not see much of Clan Line at Reading, its going back via Salisbury!  See https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C05937/2021-05-19/detailed

 

That path didn't get called, it's not long left Bristol running via Swindon

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U91280/2021-05-19/detailed

The perils of multiple schedules!

 

Jo

Edited May 19, 2021 by Steadfast

[jamie92208]

I've just received Roger Fords Ezine previewing his Informed Sources. The subject of the cracks in the jacking points will be extensively covered in a soecial srticle. It shoukd make interesting and informative reading. One of the briefings that he has had was from North Pole depot with live pictures of the cracks. Could be worth getting the magazine which should be out next week.

 

Jamie

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Plenty in action on the Bristol line today.

[1E BoY]

802114 was on duty at Paignton yesterday around 1100. Snapped during a diversion enroute to football at Plainmoor.

[johnofwessex]

On 18/05/2021 at 06:54, Peter Kazmierczak said:

Spot-on! From the hillside by Newton St Loe - A4 road in foreground.
The old MR line between Mangotsfield and Bath, as you'll know, was so close here. Wonder what would've happened if BR had built a connecting line in the early 1950s between the two? 

Anyway, a bit off-topic.

 

It was proposed afaik

[SouthernMafia]

On 14/05/2021 at 11:31, Gilbert said:

Does anyone know if 387s are operating west of Swindon?

 

387152 / 387165 in service today:

 

9U44 07:12 PAD - BPW 08:37
9L43 10:19 BPW - PAD 11:42  
9U54 12:12 PAD - BPW 13:36  
5Z54 13:49 BPW - SWI 14:14   
5Z53 14:32 SWI - BPW 14:57   
9L53 15:10 BPW - PAD 16:43  
9U66 17:12 PAD - BPW 18:38   
5Z66 19:04 BPW - RTCD 20:07