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Hitachi trains grounded


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35 minutes ago, 313201 said:

Was the class 803 failed and needing assistance

It looks brand new - see the appearance of the bogie - has the pan up and a tail light is illuminated. And that 66 is just too perfectly named to have been the Thunderbird.  

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2 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

It looks brand new - see the appearance of the bogie - has the pan up and a tail light is illuminated. And that 66 is just too perfectly named to have been the Thunderbird.  

Which suggests it's been staged for a publicity photo.

 

John

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21 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

It looks brand new - see the appearance of the bogie - has the pan up and a tail light is illuminated. And that 66 is just too perfectly named to have been the Thunderbird.  

 

They pull them to Darlington from the factory, so I expect that's why the 66 was there.

 

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23 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

And that 66 is just too perfectly named to have been the Thunderbird.

Definitely, no doubt GB allocated that loco to the correct customer's service deliberately.

 

Jo

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On 03/06/2021 at 09:33, LNER4479 said:

Seen at Darlington this morning.

20210603_072838.jpg.5bcb450026a258058f107bea2950583e.jpg

 

20210603_072903.jpg.01fa6dcf3ab8584380f3fb9eb4230eb6.jpg

 

Just had my first ride on a LNER 800 since the issue was first highlighted. All yaw damper brackets appeared to be attached.


Was parked at Darlington on Tuesday btw.

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23 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

It looks brand new - see the appearance of the bogie - has the pan up and a tail light is illuminated. And that 66 is just too perfectly named to have been the Thunderbird.  

 
Perhaps “Black Sheep “ would be a more appropriate name ? :jester:

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15 minutes ago, Steadfast said:

Definitely, no doubt GB allocated that loco to the correct customer's service deliberately.

 

Jo

Good for them! Every little (bit of publicity) helps...

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49 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

.. or Nanking Blue ... please can we have one in Midland Pullman colours

What Midland Lake with Black and Gold lining, I'd vote for that.

 

Jamie

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5 hours ago, rodent279 said:

Looks very close to Garter Blue.

Ah but will it beat the Flying Duck's speed record ..... ? 

 

 

..... oh ..... wait ...... :jester:

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  • 3 months later...
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The ORR's interim report into this debacle is now out https://www.orr.gov.uk/search-news/orr-publishes-interim-report-hitachi-train-cracks 

 

Summery - taken from their website. 

 

"Our interim findings confirm the cracking in the yaw damper and lifting plate are a result of fatigue and stress corrosion cracking – and that Hitachi made the sensible decision to withdraw all trains."

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Fatigue and stress corrosion suggest to me that the loadings on the various components and joins/reinforcing between them are possibly not as calculated/expected.

I wonder if these trains have had to have stiffer damping than the standard design, in order to keep them within the British kinematic envelope at high speeds, and thus has caused this unexpected fatigue?

ISTR the Mk4s rode more roughly due to stiffer damping required on the SIG bogies and at the couplers, the various 'solutions' requiring much investigation after they had entered service (resulting in compromise, at best). I might have misremembered but this may have also partly influenced the decision not to go for 140mph operation (the main obstacle to that being signalling)

 

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The report makes for interesting reading and is well worth a read,even for a layman like me. It highlights amongst other issues the sometimes conflicting  pressures between TOC,Hitachi the DFT and ORR. The root cause of the cracks remains to be identified but apparently our UK climate gives ideal corrosive conditions coupled with salt sustained de icing processes in winter.IMHO it has been put together in a frank and concise manner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, keefer said:

Fatigue and stress corrosion suggest to me that the loadings on the various components and joins/reinforcing between them are possibly not as calculated/expected.

 

Agreed. Vehicle structures and their attachments must, by law, be designed to take the loads specified in the relevant Euronorm (EN126631). The independent check for the vehicles assesses the structural calculations against that input. If the specified inputs are wrong for any reason, such as the actual loadings are greater than those specified in the standard, or if the standard has failed to consider fatigue of aluminium, then there is a potential problem. It has been reported that Hitachi was given a lot of track reference data, but this may have been used to assist ride quality determination (any other vote for 'fail' on this point?) rather than structural issues.

 

The ORR report states that damper bracket cracking results from fatigue and lifting pocket cracking is from stress corrosion cracking. Stress corrosion cracking is not considered in the standard. Clearly now a significant omission.

Edited by david.hill64
updated information
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9 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

But! But! But! But they are weatherproofed and better at coping with the Dawlish route, no?

 

Well everything is relative - but unlike the XC Voyager fleet, the 80X fleet being doused in salt water doesn't cause the braking system to fail* which was what everyone was worried about when they were announced as successors to the HST fleet..

 

 

* The voyagers use rheostatic braking that needs large resistors to despite the electrical energy created by said braking as heat. Problem is the voyager fleet have them fitted on the roof and salt water being an excellent conductor of electricity means said resistors effectively become a straight short circuit - upon which the train computer brings the train to a halt and refuses to move as the braking ability is significantly compromised.

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10 hours ago, Kris said:

The ORR's interim report into this debacle is now out https://www.orr.gov.uk/search-news/orr-publishes-interim-report-hitachi-train-cracks 

 

Summery - taken from their website. 

 

"Our interim findings confirm the cracking in the yaw damper and lifting plate are a result of fatigue and stress corrosion cracking – and that Hitachi made the sensible decision to withdraw all trains."

 

Maybe its just me....

 

.....but I feel that most of the report is totally superfluous.

 

Lots of waffle from the ORR about how everyone complied with the reams of legal documentation / rules and navigated the contractual interfaces of the privatised railway, while bigging up their own 'desk jockey' role as something significant when in reality any kudos actually goes to the TOC managers and engineering teams who were left scrabbling round to fill the gap caused by the sudden withdrawal of most of their fleets!

 

 

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2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Well everything is relative - but unlike the XC Voyager fleet, the 80X fleet being doused in salt water doesn't cause the braking system to fail* which was what everyone was worried about when they were announced as successors to the HST fleet..

 

 

* The voyagers use rheostatic braking that needs large resistors to despite the electrical energy created by said braking as heat. Problem is the voyager fleet have them fitted on the roof and salt water being an excellent conductor of electricity means said resistors effectively become a straight short circuit - upon which the train computer brings the train to a halt and refuses to move as the braking ability is significantly compromised.

 

The 80Xs have rheostatic braking too with the resistor grids mounted on the roof.  There are differences across the 80X classes in respect of resistor grid rating and under what circumstances the rheo brake is used (and it has been isolated at various times too) but they nevertheless have it. 

 

Hitachi went to considerable lengths to ensure that the roof mounted rheo grids would not be a failure cause as it has been on the Voyagers.  Unfortunately they weren't as fastidious with the engine rafts and there have been several failures along the sea front caused by water ingress into those.  The units have been retro fitted with a special "Dawlish" mode to improve the odds of being able to restart the engines if a water induced shutdown occurs.

Edited by DY444
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