Barclay Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 I've just purchased a couple of very inexpensive 'blue box' F7's for a forthcoming project - whichever chassis runs best will be detailed up and used with a new body built from a Highliners kit. In that context it doesn't really matter what these two loco's look like, but I can't help noticing that whilst the chassis are all but identical the two bodies are very different, in fact they must be a completely different moulding. As far as I was aware the old Athearn body that has been around since the 50's and which I believe is still used in the Roundhouse range was only ever one moulding. Does that mean that one of mine is something different? No evidence of kitbashing on the inside of the shells, yet they have very different features - fans, portholes, nose, grilles. Can anyone enlighten me? I should add that my knowledge of U.S. stuff is quite limited so there may be an obvious explanation.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 (edited) Could one be an old Atlas [FP7?] bodyshell? The EM shell might be an F9 [Atlas again, IIRC?] The UP shell has a winterisation hatch. I don''t think any of my Athearn F7s had one out of the box? I recall having to fit a winterisation hatch from one of the details manufactures [Details West, or Details Associates, cannot recall which] There were other shells, including {I think? ] from Bowser...I have one powered by a power truck, rather than an 8wd chassis. Also, Model Power did an F unit too, with 8wd....I think it might have been an F3 ? The UP shell sports a European type coupler as well...which might mean it isn;t an Athearn shell after all? {Roco/Atlas, perhaps?] Edited May 8, 2021 by alastairq 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 (edited) The shape of the windscreens certainly suggest they could be old Athearn shells. F-units were built with either a single headlight fitting, or with a second lower in the nose, depending on what the ordering Railroad wanted, so I would imagine Athearn catered for this variation. The dodgy paint job on the U.P., along with some obvious bodging on the side sill and that hideous EU-type coupler suggests it is not 'factory finish'. Other differences are because the UP one is an F9 (5 bodyside louvres, one in front of the lead porthole) and the EM 'Demonstrator' is an F7 or possibly late-model F3 - only 4 bodyside louvres, and lead porthole further forward than the F9. So again maybe Athearn had more than one F-Unit shell even in it's Blue Box range. I must admit I don't know that myself. The first roof fan behind the cab was for the dynamic brakes, and was 36" dia. or later, 48", hence the size difference there. If dynamics weren't fitted then a blank panel without a fan was there. The rear roof panel had gubbins to do with steam heat equipment - again if fitted, so had variety or could be blank. Edited May 8, 2021 by F-UnitMad 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor quinn Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 (edited) I’d suggest the UP one is a Bachmann F9 shell possibly on an Athearn chassis. https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=68_207 Edited May 8, 2021 by doctor quinn Typo 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, doctor quinn said: I’d suggest the UP one is a Bachmann F9 shell possibly on an Athearn chassis. https://estore.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=68_207 Ooh, good call Sir!! I once had a Bachmann HO Scale F9, pretty sure that had a square grille* on the 4th radiator fan too, plus the awful windscreen. * It doesn't look like a proper "winterisation hatch" to me. Those were a longer box, with the grille at one end. They had a sliding plate in them that could slide across to block the grille so the air re-circulated back into the body, helping to prevent freezing things up completely in harsh winter weather. This is one, on my FP7, to the rear of the F7 which doesn't have one. Note the FP7 is also longer than a standard F-Unit.... Edited May 8, 2021 by F-UnitMad 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 One way to tell is to turn the engine over and look at the bottom of the fuel tank. The Athearn engine will have 4 "buttons" on the bottom for the motor mounts. No buttons, its definitively not an Athearn Blue Box. The shells are completely different in the details, the UP is not Athearn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barclay Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 Thanks everyone, much interesting information. One thing for sure, both chassis are Athearn, they are practically identical, but the UP one is indeed an F9 shell - I should have looked at my Diesel Spotters' Guide! The messy work on the fairing over the fuel tanks suggests it has been 'modified' to fit the Athearn chassis. That's quite useful - I could use it in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted May 9, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2021 Is their a definitive list of who produced what type of F Unit in HO and how good/accurate they are/where? I for one am confused as the proverbial, interested in a FP7 at some point though.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2021 Atlas/Roco did the FP7 for many years, but more recently I think Intermountain have done one. I have one of each - somewhere. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2021 Stewart Hobbies pretty well cornered the market in quality HO F Units in the late '80s, doing a whole plethora of different variations of F3/5/7/9, all on lovely Kato chassis. But you needed a Details Associated (or was it West?) pack to add handrails and lift-rings etc. The later Stewart FTs were not as convincing - and had their own chassis, which I found rather poor by comparison with Kato. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 LifeLike did an F7...I have one, cheapazchipz at the time. Did Varney [or maybe even Lionel?] do the F unit with single power truck? {Pre-Columbian railroad modelling times, I think?] I have a stack of different F unit shells to play with....Athearn's 'dummy' F units were also a cheap way of playing with various modifications.... [I have a 'dummy' Athearn SD7, messed modelled after a pic in a UP power book. I prefer it to a more 'accurate' modern version] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor quinn Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, F-UnitMad said: Ooh, good call Sir!! I once had a Bachmann HO Scale F9, pretty sure that had a square grille* on the 4th radiator fan too, plus the awful windscreen. * It doesn't look like a proper "winterisation hatch" to me. Those were a longer box, with the grille at one end. They had a sliding plate in them that could slide across to block the grille so the air re-circulated back into the body, helping to prevent freezing things up completely in harsh winter weather. This is one, on my FP7, to the rear of the F7 which doesn't have one. Note the FP7 is also longer than a standard F-Unit.... Thanks, I just occurred to me when I remembered a Scale Trains article from the 80s that listed the then current F unit models. Agree on the “winter hatch” it’s like the mould maker only had a description of one. Edited May 9, 2021 by doctor quinn 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Some years ago Model Railroader did an "F-Unit Special" which I kept (of course ) I will have to look it out & see if it listed what has been made. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meld9003 Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 F units are one of those locos which are difficult to capture for some reason and for HO scale RTR you really want Athearn Genesis for Fs and FP7/9s. The Genesis Fs are based on the Highliner shell, but the FP shell is their own work. They come with prototype specific detail and a pretty good drive system and I think are the current gold standard. Rapido do an FP7/9 and is probably best for the Canadian versions. It was laser scanned and looks right, but I think the Genesis one beats it in terms of overall finesse. Intermountain also do Fs and FP7/9s. I've not seen one, but they seem to be regarded as a good but less detailed choice. Stewart F units are in the basic details but good shape category with excellent drives. They seem to detail up nicely. Finally you have the option of a Highliners shell. These were designed to fit the Stewart chassis (as I believe the Intermountain F units were too originally) and allow you to build an accurate model of pretty much any F2/3/7/9. Paul also has a limited stock of Athearn FP shells. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 +1 for the Stewart/Kato chassis, like the prototype quite a few have had the Clebourne treatment and donated their chassis to Athearn CF7s. Where did you find the Union Pacific one? I've recently acquired a Cascades liveried F59PHI from eBay and that also had a small Airfix tension lock coupler fitted... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barclay Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 having digested all of this information and re-read a couple of articles from Scale Trains in 1983, I think the most likely explanation is that the UP loco is a Bachmann F9 shell. This has produced the all too common (for me at least) issue that I now have another loco I want to build, because when the Highliner kit based F7 is done, I can consider doing an F9 as well, using this shell with leftover bits from the kit perhaps, and maybe roof parts from the Athearn shell to do away with the unwanted 'winterization' hatch. In this way, despite a reasonable modelling output the number of unbuilt kits and bits in my drawer slowly increases ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barclay Posted May 10, 2021 Author Share Posted May 10, 2021 Just now, 298 said: +1 for the Stewart/Kato chassis, like the prototype quite a few have had the Clebourne treatment and donated their chassis to Athearn CF7s. Where did you find the Union Pacific one? I've recently acquired a Cascades liveried F59PHI from eBay and that also had a small Airfix tension lock coupler fitted... Both came from Contikits - £27 the pair ! Both are repaints of course but they were primarily bought for their drivetrains. 48 hours later and I have another loco to build.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 On 09/05/2021 at 12:28, F-UnitMad said: Some years ago Model Railroader did an "F-Unit Special" which I kept (of course ) I will have to look it out & see if it listed what has been made. Found it. It was from the "10/06" Issue. Now is that October 2006, or June 2010..??!! Anyway for F7s in HO it lists Broadway, Athearn Genesis, Bowser/Stewart, Model Power, and Intermountain. Intermountain also do (did?) the FP7. F9 is Athearn Genesis and Bowser/Stewart. F3 - if anyone is interested? - Athearn Genesis, Bowser/Stewart, Intermountain & Life-Like Proto 1000. FT - Bachmann (must be Spectrum?) & Bowser/Stewart. No mention of the cheapo Athearn Blue Box F7, or early Bachmann F9, which IIRC had the same pancake motor as UK Mainline/Palitoy diesels, being made in the same factory. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted May 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 10, 2021 Atlas seems to have done an FP7 judging by recent Ebay listing, tempted to pick up a cheap one and get to work on it unless it is actually a different type F unit masquerading? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor quinn Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, John M Upton said: Atlas seems to have done an FP7 judging by recent Ebay listing, tempted to pick up a cheap one and get to work on it unless it is actually a different type F unit masquerading? It’s a rather good model of an FP7, dimensionally accurate, like the real ting it scales about 4 feet longer than an F. Roco mechanics so they run well, dates from the late 70s/ early 80s so moulded grab irons and lift rings, and you’ll probably want to fit new horns but a little work and it could be a gem. E-R Models did a clone if you can’t find an Atlas, some of the tampo printing was simplified but the mould and mech are the same. Edited May 10, 2021 by doctor quinn Additional info 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 (edited) That list MR did must have been what was available at the time as there are a bunch of former models missing - Tyco and Mantua for example. 3 hours ago, F-UnitMad said: FT - Bachmann (must be Spectrum?) & Bowser/Stewart. Bachmann still available, not Spectrum - https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=258_966_1033_1034 Apparently tooling is 40+ years old, former AHM, and not really accurate http://magicicada.org/Other/2017/04/05/Bachmann-emc-ft-models/ Edited May 10, 2021 by mdvle 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Patrick SPF Posted May 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 11, 2021 The advantage of the ER Models version is that they came with an 8 pin DCC socket Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barclay Posted May 11, 2021 Author Share Posted May 11, 2021 11 hours ago, F-UnitMad said: , or early Bachmann F9, which IIRC had the same pancake motor as UK Mainline/Palitoy diesels, being made in the same factory. That would explain why mine has been transplanted onto an Athearn chassis. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted May 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 11, 2021 9 hours ago, doctor quinn said: E-R Models did a clone if you can’t find an Atlas, some of the tampo printing was simplified but the mould and mech are the same. I mentioned the Atlas/Roco model a few posts back, but had forgotten that mine is actually E-R. For reasons not obvious, like Atlas/Roco the Rock Island version was painted brown instead of maroon, which was a disappointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted May 11, 2021 Share Posted May 11, 2021 No mention yet on here, of the Cary [FT? Plus other Effs?] shells? Or are we all to ruddy old to be trying to lift one up??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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