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Sarf London inspired sidings


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Posted (edited)

Last year I started Badsworth Rd with my daughter and although it has been mostly finished, personal circumstances mean that further work on it is unlikely in the short to medium term and playing with it is the same.

A left over bit of MDF seemed to be calling me to do something with it, and so I've been pondering another small shunting layout. The purchase of a B4 gave me the idea of a tight radius layout with a diamond for added interest, but I couldn't make it work the way I wanted to with the space I have, so it's become more inglenook.

It's not meant to be prototypical, and rule 1 will apply, but I want it to have a mild flavour of the area around New Cross/Deptford. 

Whilst rather diddy in size, I do want it to have an ability to extend, even if it is only to have a fiddle yard. 

 

I've been constructing some MDF buildings from an eBay seller which I've been adorning with brick papers which will hopefully go well and I have also trialed some Scalescenes freebies that I think work, so along with a left over section of Wills brick arches I found in my bit box, I've been working on view points and angles. 

 

I may add a canal basin at the front - it was seeing the Scalescenes kit that started that idea - too, but I'm not sure it it may be a tad over doing it. 

 

I'll post some better pics soon. 

 

IMG_20210502_205123942.jpg

Edited by Multigauge
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Posted (edited)

A little bit more info.

The board is 81cm by 31cm at its narrow end and 41cm at its widest. 

The track is peco code 75 with electrofrog Y's. 

The point control will be wire in tube or something similar - note to self, need to get some piano wire - and it will be wired for DC. 

I want some of the track work to incorporate stone setts - most likely the area running off between the buildings and right  - but I'm in a quandary. 

What do people think of:

Wills stone setts.

Metcalffe stone setts.

Using Das clay and a home made dai/stamp.

Using a good quality filler.

 

I'm also not sure how easy it will be to get a good finish through the second Y. 

 

The brick arches form the scenic break to the fiddle yard (it's one line with room for a loco and 3 wagons at a push so calling it a yard seems a bit OTT) and I haven't quite decided the angle I want them at, but they need to be at an angle to give the effect I want.

IMG_20210509_124324809.jpg

IMG_20210509_124338175.jpg

Edited by Multigauge
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It looks like you've got plenty of space available, which with the simple track plan definitely gives it a good open feel. Those tall warehouses look pretty good too.

As for the setts, it depends on the track. If it's pretty straight then the Wills embossed or Metcalfe printed setts will be fine; if the track curves noticeably, hand-scribing setts will get you a more believable appearance, as the courses between and just outside the rails can follow the line of the track. As usual, the best plan is to look at the real thing to see how it's done.

Whatever you choose, I'll be watching with interest!

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Posted (edited)

Cheers. It's slow going at the moment after a bit of a schoolboy error on the second warehouse construction.

Most of the rails were painted last night and I hope to complete the rest tonight. 

It will need a clean and test run after...  

I also need to fit some magnets as I want to use kadees.

 

Edited by Multigauge
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I like these inner city industrial rail linked layouts. They give scope for adding lots of detail which seems to be missing from many larger industrial models. 

 

I spent ages looking at photos from the railway in the region of Moorgate and Farringdon in the 1950s/60s and it is amazing the wealth of detail which may not be seen at a first glance. I know that is below street level in places and therefore has a myriad of pipework and other bits and pieces which just add to the atmosphere. 

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The view along the viaduct wall in the first photo is particularly effective. Perhaps this mini-layout would benefit from mounting at eye level? It would look bigger that way.

 

The brickwork is all a bit red for London. Some stretches of yellow brick would place it better.

 

For the setts, you can buy rollers that fits 00/H0 track and imprint a pattern into DAS or similar. Those should sort out neat setts around the curves, but they wouldn't work well through the turnouts.

 

Rather than a canal basin, how about a barge dock connected to the Thames? If I had that layout to finish, I'd put a wagon turntable at the end of the longest siding, with another line running back from the turntable along the dockside. Then I'd hang a scenic extension on the front large enough for a model of a Thames sailing-barge. 

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Posted (edited)

I agree with Guy, the predominant brick was the yellow London brick, a lot of which was pretty soot encrusted to a dirty brown. Your more modern unit could well have a red brick shell though.  

As I worked and lived in Southwark almost all of my working life, I am looking forward to seeing this project develop. I have photos of warehouses in south London should you need any, although there are masses on the net, but I guess you are very familiar with the area. There are still some un-gentrified warehouses about, or there were until 2013!  http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/26372807/in/album/1053034  - That one is only a few hundred yards from Blackfriars Bridge.

This is at the western end of the Grand Surrey* Canal, so sailing barges went through the layout's area.

*This area of south London was in the County of Surrey originally, until 1889, although very close to the border with Kent.

St George's Church Camberwell & Surrey Canal.jpg

Edited by phil_sutters
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1 hour ago, Enfys_Rainbow said:

Nice work! Are the warehouse buildings from Fair Price Models? 

Thanks. Yes. They have crept up a little on price incidentally, but I think they are still gvfm. 

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4 hours ago, Guy Rixon said:

The view along the viaduct wall in the first photo is particularly effective. Perhaps this mini-layout would benefit from mounting at eye level? It would look bigger that way.

 

The brickwork is all a bit red for London. Some stretches of yellow brick would place it better.

 

For the setts, you can buy rollers that fits 00/H0 track and imprint a pattern into DAS or similar. Those should sort out neat setts around the curves, but they wouldn't work well through the turnouts.

 

Rather than a canal basin, how about a barge dock connected to the Thames? If I had that layout to finish, I'd put a wagon turntable at the end of the longest siding, with another line running back from the turntable along the dockside. Then I'd hang a scenic extension on the front large enough for a model of a Thames sailing-barge. 

Thanks. Some good points to raise there and very helpful tips. 

 

It's interesting you mention brick colour as I always remember it dark and dirty so assumed it was a red brick mixed with engineers blue.

 

I like the idea of a wagon turntable and it crossed my mind when I was planning it though I was thinking of having some gates leading off to another imaginary area of street running like Grove St Deptford.

 

I've bought some Wills sheets and will see what finish I get on the stone setts front. At the moment I'm building up the base to the top of the sleepers. 

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More yellow brick than red, largely from Faversham's brickfields for South London, but you'd have red brick buildings mixed in. You'd often half a course or two of red brick as a decoration, even on warehouses.

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@phil_sutters thanks for posting the map and picture of the barge in what looks like what is now Burgess Park?

I grew up in Camberwell from the age of 5 so yes, I'm familiar with the area.

Burgess Park was a destination for me and my brother's at times. The canal had been filled in by then, but there was still a lot of evidence of the canal - I seem to remember a large footbridge straddling the park at one point heading up towards North Peckham estate. 

The inspiration to much of this idea came from some research I was doing for the proposed Bakerloo line extension and possible sites for access to tunnel sections - the main one being around New Cross Gate - during construction. 

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@ManofKent the picture is really helpful, thank you. I shall have a crack at repainting the arches appropriately. I wonder if I should try and strip it? It was painted so long ago I can't remember what type of paint I used!

A slow day of modelling today, but I've finished the main structure of the second warehouse; it will need detailing and weathering but it can wait for a bit. 

IMG_20210516_190751823.jpg

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I decided to to have a bash with some Wills stone setts and have been cutting out some sections and shaping/trimming accordingly. Of course I could have made things a whole easier if I had straightened each of the sidings out, but where's the fun in that?! And besides, I didn't want straight lines...

Now I'm not sure if I'm going to cover the whole area outside the more modern warehouse with stone setts or just part of it. I'm wondering if the area immediately Infront of the building should be more like concrete hard standing

IMG_20210517_225834141.jpg

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I think that tarmac or concrete hard-standing would be the likely surface in front of a modern building, but in the back streets of Sarf Lundun almost anything might appear.

 

Thames Tunnel Mills & Mayflower 21 11 2007.jpg

Lucky Motors Druid St SE1 2 11 2008.jpg

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Are you planning on infilling the points - I played around with an old set and couldn't find a neat solution for the blades area. I've not found photos of a great example from other modellers either using standard commercial points.

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Just come across your blog. Very interesting with lots of things raised which are familiar to me. Our club researched Deptford Wharf for a potential layout, which we eventually decided not to do, as the riverside half of it was shunted using only hydraulic capstans with locomotives not allowed. I am also very familiar with the Grand Surrey Canal, it used to run past the end of my street, and the streets around the Surrey Docks from the time I was the Secretary of the former Bermondsey and Rotherhithe Society. The former St Georges Church, Wells Way is also familiar, I was on the roof of that when they did the topping out ceremony while it was being converted to flats internally when I was a committee member of the late Southwark Environment Trust, now Southwark and Lambeth Groundwork.

 

I have applied cobbling to sections of two of our club layouts, both using different materials. (Or should that be stone setts ?)

 

1017433959_StMellionQuaysidesmallsize.JPG.35422b7827645c04f3a587acc84b467f.JPG

This is the Quayside on St Mellion our Cornish branch terminus layout. A long shot without great depth of field, but it gives you the impression. The surface was made with Jesmonite a water based resin. Not highly recommended as it sets like concrete. I had to carve the stones using a carborundum scriber and it took quite a while, numbing my fingers in the process. However, it allows you to follow the curves and give a realistic finish. The area in the point at the front of the picture had the infills made out of fine wood which looks quite good, although the clearances on the code 100 point are quite big. The tramwayed rails were achieved by soldering slitted copper clad sleepers undeath the running rails about every sixth gap. Phosphor bronze check rails were then soldered to this using track gauges to hold everything in place with the correct wheel flange clearances. On this layout the stones were painted with mostly greys, but I may add a bit more variety to this soon.

 

2031868264_Theshapeofthingstocome.jpg.cb1bfbd744bce33c973e980959cb5c0d.jpg

Our Crystal Palace High Level layout has a substantial driveway into the goods yard area which is mostly coal yard and this is also cobbled. The surface on this was mainly done with Tetrion filler to a fairly hard mix. This carves much easier, but can crumble in places, although this can be developed to represent broken stones with puddles etc. It can however also be easily be back-filled and re-carved. I also used some car body filler along the edges on a base board joint to give them a stronger non crumbly face. On this layout I used around seven different shades to paint the stones, some straight from the tin and others mixed, so there are hints of reds, browns and purples in there as well as the greys. Finally a slightly light grey  tinted coat of matt varnish was applied, which blends it all together.

 

I hope that this is of interest.

All the best

Ray

Southwark and District Model Railway Club

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4 hours ago, ManofKent said:

Are you planning on infilling the points - I played around with an old set and couldn't find a neat solution for the blades area. I've not found photos of a great example from other modellers either using standard commercial points.

The coarser standards in 4mm scale make this harder, particularly with the over-scale throw of the points. One could cheat a little and paint the surface over which the points move the same colour as the road surface. Then the bicycle-swallowing canyons would not be so obvious.

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This was a second hand layout built by one of our former members, who did it in code 100. The harbour board was a new build extension to add more interest. If we were starting it as a new layout we would have used code 75 track.

 

All the best

Ray

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21 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

I think that tarmac or concrete hard-standing would be the likely surface in front of a modern building, but in the back streets of Sarf Lundun almost anything might appear.

 

Thames Tunnel Mills & Mayflower 21 11 2007.jpg

Lucky Motors Druid St SE1 2 11 2008.jpg

I worked with a guy that used to get his car serviced at Lucky's!

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4 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

This was a second hand layout built by one of our former members, who did it in code 100. The harbour board was a new build extension to add more interest. If we were starting it as a new layout we would have used code 75 track.

 

All the best

Ray

Thanks for the pointers Ray. 

The finish that you've got with Crystal Palace HL is marvelous. 

I'd like to try and get a similar finish, but suspect it's probably out of my league at the moment. I've started trying to fit some Wills sheets for the time being. 

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