Weaselfish Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Good evening. Does anyone have any idea how long the GWR shirtbutton monogram lasted in service on passenger coaching stock after it stopped being applied in 1942 please? Photographic evidence seems scarce and no existing online threads seem to cover the point. Examples could be seen on brown stock for many years afterwards but I've drawn a blank with passenger coaches. Any information gratefully received - thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2021 Not quite what you asked but it could definitely be found in the interior of stock in the late 1950s and possibly as late as c.1961/62. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaselfish Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 Hello Mike. Thank you for this. It's useful to know too as it indicates that refurbishment of pre-war stock was not always comprehensive after 1942. The lack of information about the longevity of the exterior shirtbutton is interesting. It may indicate that it disappeared from the outside of coaching stock very quickly after 1942 despite the circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 It is most unlikely that anyone would go to the effort of painting out the GWR roundels either during the war or during the period of austerity that followed it, although it is quite possible that any stock that was revarnished (rather than repainted) subsequent to nationalisation had them painted out. Both paint and labour were in short supply (which is why the roundels were discontinued in the first place) and would hardly have been wasted on such an unnecessary task. Photographic materials were also in short supply and most carriages had become quite dowdy (making the roundels less than obvious) and that almost certainly explains the relative lack of photographic evidence. There is, however, a Henry Casserley photograph depicting a 37xx pannier waiting to depart from Plymouth Friary for Yealmton in August 1945, and the first auto carriage is clearly displaying the GWR roundel. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted May 9, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 9, 2021 (edited) AFAIK passenger stock was ovehauled at 10 year intervals. Interior fittings were simply cleaned, panelling repaired and revarnished, so roundels on panelling or upholstery would go back into service and last the life of the coach. A 10 year repaint period would suggest that stock painted in late 1941 would still be in service in the roundel livery in 1951. I would suggest that the filth that was the normal livery of Siphons, Fruit Ds, Damos, Pythons etc made the matter academic in any case. Of course, the roundels would be becoming increasingly rare throughout the 1942-51 period. I was aboard a Queen Street-Barry Island excursion Whit Monday 1964, steam hauled with late Collet non gangwayed stock, and my memory, which I wouldn't rely on 100%, tells me that the mirrors had GWR roundels etched into them; this was the first time I'd ever seen the roundel in service. Loco was a cleanish Radyr large prairie. This Edited May 9, 2021 by The Johnster 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaselfish Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 Thank you to Johnster and Becasse for the additional information. Becasse's point about the roundel's not being picked up in photographs is a particularly interesting one. Thanks again all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted May 10, 2021 Share Posted May 10, 2021 15 hours ago, The Johnster said: I was aboard a Queen Street-Barry Island excursion Whit Monday 1964, steam hauled with late Collet non gangwayed stock, and my memory, which I wouldn't rely on 100%, tells me that the mirrors had GWR roundels etched into them; this was the first time I'd ever seen the roundel in service. Loco was a cleanish Radyr large prairie. This I would be surprised if any Collett non-gangwayed stock lasted quite that long. Hawksworth, yes. Then again, in those happy days anything that could turn a wheel was liable to be sent to Barry Island. Chris 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 On 10/05/2021 at 06:05, chrisf said: I would be surprised if any Collett non-gangwayed stock lasted quite that long. Hawksworth, yes. Then again, in those happy days anything that could turn a wheel was liable to be sent to Barry Island. Chris Yes the last Collett non gangway stock was taken out of service in 1963. Most going in the previous 3 years. Even the Hawksworth non gangway stock also disappeared in 1963. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 I went on a school trip from Chester to Birmingham Snow Hill in the spring of 1962 and the open second we travelled in had the GWR roundel etched in the glass panels between the seating bays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 Later Collett gangway stock was blanket withdrawn in 1964 / 65. Hawksworth stock only last 3 or 4 years longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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