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Latest date GWR monogram seen on coaching stock


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Good evening.

 

Does anyone have any idea how long the GWR shirtbutton monogram lasted in service on passenger coaching stock after it stopped being applied in 1942 please? Photographic evidence seems scarce and no existing online threads seem to cover the point. Examples could be seen on brown stock for many years afterwards but I've drawn a blank with passenger coaches. Any information gratefully received - thank you.

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Hello Mike. Thank you for this. It's useful to know too as it indicates that refurbishment of pre-war stock was not always comprehensive after 1942. The lack of information about the longevity of the exterior shirtbutton is interesting. It may indicate that it disappeared from the outside of coaching stock very quickly after 1942 despite the circumstances. 

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It is most unlikely that anyone would go to the effort of painting out the GWR roundels either during the war or during the period of austerity that followed it, although it is quite possible that any stock that was revarnished (rather than repainted) subsequent to nationalisation had them painted out. Both paint and labour were in short supply (which is why the roundels were discontinued in the first place) and would hardly have been wasted on such an unnecessary task.

Photographic materials were also in short supply and most carriages had become quite dowdy (making the roundels less than obvious) and that almost certainly explains the relative lack of photographic evidence. There is, however, a Henry Casserley photograph depicting a 37xx pannier waiting to depart from Plymouth Friary for Yealmton in August 1945, and the first auto carriage is clearly displaying the GWR roundel.

 

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AFAIK passenger stock was ovehauled at 10 year intervals.  Interior fittings were simply cleaned, panelling repaired and revarnished, so roundels on panelling or upholstery would go back into service and last the life of the coach.  A 10 year repaint period would suggest that stock painted in late 1941 would still be in service in the roundel livery in 1951.  I would suggest that the filth that was the normal livery of Siphons, Fruit Ds, Damos, Pythons etc made the matter academic in any case.  Of course, the roundels would be becoming increasingly rare throughout the 1942-51 period. 

 

I was aboard a Queen Street-Barry Island excursion Whit Monday 1964, steam hauled with late Collet non gangwayed stock, and my memory, which I wouldn't rely on 100%, tells me that the mirrors had GWR roundels etched into them; this was the first time I'd ever seen the roundel in service.  Loco was a cleanish Radyr large prairie.  This

Edited by The Johnster
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15 hours ago, The Johnster said:

I was aboard a Queen Street-Barry Island excursion Whit Monday 1964, steam hauled with late Collet non gangwayed stock, and my memory, which I wouldn't rely on 100%, tells me that the mirrors had GWR roundels etched into them; this was the first time I'd ever seen the roundel in service.  Loco was a cleanish Radyr large prairie.  This

 

I would be surprised if any Collett non-gangwayed stock lasted quite that long.  Hawksworth, yes.  Then again, in those happy days anything that could turn a wheel was liable to be sent to Barry Island.

 

Chris

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On 10/05/2021 at 06:05, chrisf said:

 

I would be surprised if any Collett non-gangwayed stock lasted quite that long.  Hawksworth, yes.  Then again, in those happy days anything that could turn a wheel was liable to be sent to Barry Island.

 

Chris

 

Yes the last Collett non gangway stock was taken out of service in 1963.   Most going in the previous 3 years.  Even the Hawksworth non gangway stock also disappeared in 1963.

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