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GWR/BR INSIXFISH 6 wheel insulated fish van diagram S13


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Got a bit done, the body is assembled.

 

_MG_7541b.jpg.7a70e62bea9e477e01ee861aef1baf10.jpg

 

The overlays are fitted for the ribbing on the van ends.

 

_MG_7545b.jpg.27fe9f45ee1701b1645ab15d9f6223e3.jpg

 

and finally the doors are now in place.

 

_MG_7558b.jpg.ce7147010dab971a97cc8ebb14481442.jpg

 

The overlays and ribbing for the sides is the next job.

 

Ian

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I will be very happy with a pair of these vans Ian please. I will Email you my details as I have moved home over the last year and I cannot remember if you have my new address. Looking forward to building stock again now I have enough of the old repaired track from my original test track to put them through the 'humps, bumps and bends' in my new workshop which is the home of my latest trainset! Cheers. 

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Sides now complete with all the strapping, ribs and handles fitted.

 

_MG_7573b.jpg.5465648e518ecbdd5eb7ceb5d613483c.jpg

 

The basic chassis is now assembled, I need to fit the running chassis and the all the brake gear bits next.

 

_MG_7586b.jpg.dd0b7062df19fe86376ace74f91bae47.jpg

 

My apologies for the poor quality photos, but due to the problem with my leg I am having to take them sat down at my workbench which isn't ideal.

 

Ian

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11 hours ago, Tim Lewis said:

Does anyone know when these began to appear on the Eastern/Scottish Regions?  The only photo I recall seeing is the one reproduced above which is at Millerhill in 1963.

 

Fish Van

 

Thornton in 1963, possibly dropped off as a cripple. Dunno when they were first used, but there are quite a few pics of them in Scotland once you start looking.

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Commiserations on the gammy leg Ian, but before the schoolmaster comes along,  I think you should be sitting at your workbench!

Do you know how long these lasted in service by any chance?, I've got 1969 in my head, so there could be another addition to the Macgeordie roundtuit box!

 

Mike.

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There's a picture of one of these at somewhere like Sudbury in the 1950s (in one of the South Anglia albums), so there's another lot of modellers who can justify one.

 

Edit - Aspects of East Anglian Steam Volume 3, J. D. Mann.  Irritatingly no page numbers, but it's four pages after the midpoint of the book.   K3 61970 passing through Trowse with a goods for Wensum.  The Insixfish is the first vehicle behind the engine, too far away to see marking or detail but clearly identifiable.

Edited by jwealleans
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3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Commiserations on the gammy leg Ian, but before the schoolmaster comes along,  I think you should be sitting at your workbench!

Do you know how long these lasted in service by any chance?, I've got 1969 in my head, so there could be another addition to the Macgeordie roundtuit box!

 

Mike.

1969 is the date I have read, I mentioned it in the first post above. 
 

Ian

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The Don Rowland image you show comes from the Cheona Publications’: British Railways Vans vol. 2 (Ref 1), but had been published earlier in David Larkin’s Bradford Barton volume on parcels vans (Ref 2).

 

There is also a rather small Swindon official of W3302 (no suffix at the time) in the ‘Tome’ (Ref 3), as an “Insixfish” and without the ‘chalk boards’ on the doors visible in Don Rowland’s image, along with a copy of the diagram.

 

There are a couple of not very useful images in early 1960’s issues of Trains Illustrated, showing a van in the formation of a Milford Haven to Paddington service – along with an FM container loaded onto a former Southern Railway Conflat D, both marshalled between the engine and passenger vehicles.

 

I don’t have a copy of David Larkin’s subsequent Kestrel book on parcels vehicles, so can’t comment on whether there are any further images in that (And with Amazon currently quoting £906 for a copy – yes NINE HUNDRED POUNDS – I’m not likely to acquire a copy either!).

 

I looked in the relevant volume of Longworth (Ref 4) to see if there was any information on dates, to no avail.

Longworth notes the transfer of the batch 3301 – 3329, except nos. 3312 & 3328, to the Scottish Region but no date is quoted.

He does note nos. 3302/3306/3308/3309/3313/3316/3319 & 3325 as being withdrawn between 03/1963 and 09/1964 though.  I’m not sure if these are month dates or railway ‘period’ dates.

 

No withdrawal dates are quoted for any of the vehicles that remained on the Western Region.

 

I have no confirmed information on dates, but offer the following speculations:

 

By the early 1960’s the first pattern of LMS fish vans, based on a Midland Railway design, would be approaching the end of their lives, especially as quite a lot, if not all, were built on second-hand underframes in the first place.

 

David Larkin (Ref 2) suggests that these LMS vans were withdrawn in “…the early 1960’s…”  He also suggests that 6-wheeled vehicles were barred from passenger trains from 1959 but if this is so, it doesn’t appear to have applied to the S13’s, since his caption to the image of Sc3304W states: “…some were transferred to Scotland, where they were used on Aberdeen fish trains and also on passenger trains.” (My italics).

 

My speculation is that the Scottish Region had identified a continuing need for vans to convey domestic fish traffic and due to diminishing fish traffic generally, it was found possible to transfer a number of the quite recently built, and insulated, S13’s to Scotland to replace withdrawn LMS vehicles.

 

Inferring from the statement about the early LMS fish vans being withdrawn in “…the early 1960’s…” suggests that the transfer would have taken place, possibly by 1962, and obviously by 1963.

 

Fish traffic by rail basically collapsed during the 1960’s.  Ref 2 has images dated to 1969 of former ‘Blue Spot’ fish vans in traffic either as Insulated Vans or as SPV’s.  So I think it’s a fairly safe assumption that the S13’s would not have been in traffic any later that 1969, and quite possibly withdrawn rather earlier, judging by the dates that Longworth quotes.  David Larkin’s caption notes the S13’s “… were used until about 1969…”.

 

References:

1.    Railways in Profile Series No 11:  British Railways Vans vol 2, Gamble G, Cheona Publications (Chinnor) 2000.

2.    BR General Parcels Rolling Stock.  A Pictorial Survey, Larkin D, D Bradford Barton 1978.  Image p15.

3.    GWR Goods Wagons (3rd Edition), Atkins A, Beard W, Tourret, Oxford Publishing Co (Ian Allan) 2013.  Image p 351,                 diagram p 352.

4.    British Railways Pre-Nationalisation Coaching Stock Volume 1 GWR & LNER, Longworth H, Crecy Publishing 2018.

 

Looks a very nice model and I hope you're not on crutches for too long.

 

Regards

TMc

18/05/2021

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2 hours ago, watfordtmc said:

The Don Rowland image you show comes from the Cheona Publications’: British Railways Vans vol. 2 (Ref 1), but had been published earlier in David Larkin’s Bradford Barton volume on parcels vans (Ref 2).

 

There is also a rather small Swindon official of W3302 (no suffix at the time) in the ‘Tome’ (Ref 3), as an “Insixfish” and without the ‘chalk boards’ on the doors visible in Don Rowland’s image, along with a copy of the diagram.

 

There are a couple of not very useful images in early 1960’s issues of Trains Illustrated, showing a van in the formation of a Milford Haven to Paddington service – along with an FM container loaded onto a former Southern Railway Conflat D, both marshalled between the engine and passenger vehicles.

 

I don’t have a copy of David Larkin’s subsequent Kestrel book on parcels vehicles, so can’t comment on whether there are any further images in that (And with Amazon currently quoting £906 for a copy – yes NINE HUNDRED POUNDS – I’m not likely to acquire a copy either!).

 

I looked in the relevant volume of Longworth (Ref 4) to see if there was any information on dates, to no avail.

Longworth notes the transfer of the batch 3301 – 3329, except nos. 3312 & 3328, to the Scottish Region but no date is quoted.

He does note nos. 3302/3306/3308/3309/3313/3316/3319 & 3325 as being withdrawn between 03/1963 and 09/1964 though.  I’m not sure if these are month dates or railway ‘period’ dates.

 

No withdrawal dates are quoted for any of the vehicles that remained on the Western Region.

 

I have no confirmed information on dates, but offer the following speculations:

 

By the early 1960’s the first pattern of LMS fish vans, based on a Midland Railway design, would be approaching the end of their lives, especially as quite a lot, if not all, were built on second-hand underframes in the first place.

 

David Larkin (Ref 2) suggests that these LMS vans were withdrawn in “…the early 1960’s…”  He also suggests that 6-wheeled vehicles were barred from passenger trains from 1959 but if this is so, it doesn’t appear to have applied to the S13’s, since his caption to the image of Sc3304W states: “…some were transferred to Scotland, where they were used on Aberdeen fish trains and also on passenger trains.” (My italics).

 

My speculation is that the Scottish Region had identified a continuing need for vans to convey domestic fish traffic and due to diminishing fish traffic generally, it was found possible to transfer a number of the quite recently built, and insulated, S13’s to Scotland to replace withdrawn LMS vehicles.

 

Inferring from the statement about the early LMS fish vans being withdrawn in “…the early 1960’s…” suggests that the transfer would have taken place, possibly by 1962, and obviously by 1963.

 

Fish traffic by rail basically collapsed during the 1960’s.  Ref 2 has images dated to 1969 of former ‘Blue Spot’ fish vans in traffic either as Insulated Vans or as SPV’s.  So I think it’s a fairly safe assumption that the S13’s would not have been in traffic any later that 1969, and quite possibly withdrawn rather earlier, judging by the dates that Longworth quotes.  David Larkin’s caption notes the S13’s “… were used until about 1969…”.

 

References:

1.    Railways in Profile Series No 11:  British Railways Vans vol 2, Gamble G, Cheona Publications (Chinnor) 2000.

2.    BR General Parcels Rolling Stock.  A Pictorial Survey, Larkin D, D Bradford Barton 1978.  Image p15.

3.    GWR Goods Wagons (3rd Edition), Atkins A, Beard W, Tourret, Oxford Publishing Co (Ian Allan) 2013.  Image p 351,                 diagram p 352.

4.    British Railways Pre-Nationalisation Coaching Stock Volume 1 GWR & LNER, Longworth H, Crecy Publishing 2018.

 

Looks a very nice model and I hope you're not on crutches for too long.

 

Regards

TMc

18/05/2021

 

In Larkin's "BR Parcels and Passenger-Rated Stock" Volume 2, there's a undated picture of Sc3323W on page 25, postulating that it may have been condemned at the time the photograph was taken.

 

And don't worry too much about the £900 - I understand that in order to avoid having to take down the listing and then re-create it when they get new stock, it's a common ruse to set the price at a level that nobody would pay in the meantime.

 

 

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The running chassis is now complete.

 

_MG_7601b.jpg.869c61e63ab025d4577e33b973971b16.jpg

 

I've also got all of the brake gear fitted but this isn't a particularly good photo, 'must do better next time' :)

 

_MG_7634c.jpg.7313340bc8bb89c55841dbb870c3fc7f.jpg

 

Fitting the roof and all of it's associated paraphernalia will be the next job.

 

Ian 

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3 hours ago, Zero Gravitas said:

 

In Larkin's "BR Parcels and Passenger-Rated Stock" Volume 2, there's a undated picture of Sc3323W on page 25, postulating that it may have been condemned at the time the photograph was taken.

 

And don't worry too much about the £900 - I understand that in order to avoid having to take down the listing and then re-create it when they get new stock, it's a common ruse to set the price at a level that nobody would pay in the meantime.

 

 

Page 84 of David Larkin's Third volume of NPCCS on Kestrel has a photo of W3338W between two others at Clynderwen in September 1962. Two are clearly labelled 'Return to Fishguard Harbour'; a curious destination, as Fishguard (despite its name) didn't have much of a fishing fleet. More likely they were used for other Perishables traffic that had come from Ireland on the ferry. Siphon Js also found gainful employment on this.

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8 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

Page 84 of David Larkin's Third volume of NPCCS on Kestrel has a photo of W3338W between two others at Clynderwen in September 1962. Two are clearly labelled 'Return to Fishguard Harbour'; a curious destination, as Fishguard (despite its name) didn't have much of a fishing fleet. More likely they were used for other Perishables traffic that had come from Ireland on the ferry. Siphon Js also found gainful employment on this.

 

I believe there was a lot of meat traffic from Ireland handled at Fishguard, maybe that's what the vans were used for?

 

Mike.

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4 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

I believe there was a lot of meat traffic from Ireland handled at Fishguard, maybe that's what the vans were used for?

 

Mike.

There was a lot of containerised meat traffic, but I was told there was also a lot of rabbit traffic and also butter.

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20 hours ago, Zero Gravitas said:

 

In Larkin's "BR Parcels and Passenger-Rated Stock" Volume 2, there's a undated picture of Sc3323W on page 25, postulating that it may have been condemned at the time the photograph was taken.

 

And don't worry too much about the £900 - I understand that in order to avoid having to take down the listing and then re-create it when they get new stock, it's a common ruse to set the price at a level that nobody would pay in the meantime.

 

 

Some private sellers may have a punt on Amazon with a high price as there are no charges just to list and no limit on timescale 

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The roof is now in place,

 

_MG_7640b.jpg.2985a9cd78b59b617c80499e35b97e1b.jpg

 

Along with the roof end valance. 

 

_MG_7645b.jpg.fd9b35faa31948988bf421d52a8bf215.jpg

 

These are the parts which make up the roof walkway. The small sub frets carry the ribs which fit onto the lid of the ice box filler compartment.

 

_MG_7646b.jpg.eec7d08d78b921c678a5581ab8d9457c.jpg

 

The two layers need to be soldered together after the legs are all bent to 90 degrees. I used a hold and fold to do all of the legs on one side at the same time. 

 

_MG_7652b.jpg.e2abeca711028e92be9c68c8921cf4e9.jpg

 

This is the walkway in place on the roof. I fixed the legs in place with my RSU but they can be sweated into place equally well. 

 

_MG_7658b.jpg.6c095dc317413cf079db9a39b8bb601a.jpg

 

Next job is the van end roof access ladders and the ice boxes themselves.

 

Ian

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I made the ladders for the van ends today, it's a simple fold up with rungs of 0.3mm wire.

 

_MG_7668b.jpg.da37fba9944ee8e960e686ee2253b099.jpg

 

It fits into two small slots at the bottom of the van end and is soldered to the walkway at the top.

 

_MG_7673b.jpg.75ba543081019a68d096eb53d1e1bf62.jpg

 

The ice boxes were next, again a simple fold up job.

 

_MG_7678b.jpg.ac9c306bd9259604cf38fbe76e61be5d.jpg

 

The ribs need to be fitted and I have added a piece of 0.3mm wire to represent the mounting bolt.

 

_MG_7680b.jpg.39d1beab294e4300973c3801ccbc4711.jpg

 

The boxes all fit into the slots in the roof.

 

_MG_7683b.jpg.4def2f898cf6709099f3765b330eaaeb.jpg

 

There is a small footstep to add to the solebar and another on the bufferbeam, but that's tomorrows job.

 

Ian

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