New structure for British railways

[The Stationmaster]

A lot of it has more than a hint of 'solving' the wrong problems without identifying the right ones.

 

For example ticketing at present offers numerous ways for people who can be bothered to save money on fares (even without split ticketing) but this looks to be a return to the National Fares Manual.  

 

i think this local community involvement thing is more buzz words than anything else - for example at preseent our local Branch Users Group (BUG) has an excellent relationship with the (now former) franchisee which means we regularly have met senior people from the franchise and they have responded positively to requests for train service changes and improvements.  by contrast any dealings with TfL, who regrettably impinge on various local journeys, have been abysmal - they are not only unresponsive but they only folk they have sent to meet knew less about Crossrail than we did.   All I can see is that well be in a post-officing situation if we meet in future the contractor because they will control nothing, there's no value to them in doing so.  so instead it will be some remote faceless person who - judging by past NR visits will be from the wrong dept and with no authority to make decisions.

 

The same goes for local community bids for operating contracts - they will have no infrastructutre of managerial or safety competencies and the cost will be greater for those things than spreading them over a wider area of railway.  and you don't have much controil over what you run anyway because even if yiou havea self-contained branmch you still probably need to connect with other trains so that decides t your timetable.

 

As for improving timekeeping - forget it.  You only improve train timekeeping by closely managing it, across traction & rolling stock (one organisation),  infrastructure (a second  organisation) and train operation (still in a third organsation) = no change.

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 minute ago, APOLLO said:

Is that train gender neutral ?

 

Brit15

 

No, gender Fluid.

If you heat it up, it'll melt.

 

 

.

[RichardT]

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/what-is-great-british-railways-and-why-does-it-mean-fares-will-go-up-20210520208288

 

Judging by the trailer for the Jeremy Vine show I heard this morning, this Daily Mash article will well exceed Vine's level of analysis by several magnitudes.

 

RT

Edited May 20, 2021 by RichardT
Adding link

[Nearholmer]

33 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

As for improving timekeeping - forget it.  You only improve train timekeeping by closely managing it, across traction & rolling stock (one organisation),  infrastructure (a second  organisation) and train operation (still in a third organsation) = no change.

 

I couldn't agree more on your point about a triumverate of things to attend to, but I think there is a substantial difference between a frachised, and a well-managed contracted arrangement, because if the contracts down the chain are well-set, and well-managed, interests are better aligned.

 

Which brings up a really big set of questions about competence within the industry to set and manage the sorts of contracts needed well. The skills involved are not ten-a-penny, and if it is done even slightly not-well, things will go very not-well indeed.

[phil-b259]

2 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Currently TOC employees get free travel for themselves and family on their employer and any other franchise run by the same company.  Once we become one big happy family, will we get free travel network wide?

 

What about the thousands of infrastructure or freight company employees who do not benefit from such a perk at present?

 

[Dunsignalling]

47 minutes ago, RichardT said:

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/what-is-great-british-railways-and-why-does-it-mean-fares-will-go-up-20210520208288

 

Judging by the trailer for the Jeremy Vine show I heard this morning, this Daily Mash article will well exceed Vine's level of analysis by several magnitudes.

 

RT

The man who puts the anal into analysis.

[Grizz]

6 hours ago, bmthtrains - David said:

Sounds like a similar set up to TFL. 

The TfL Empire creep may have started already....

 

This Overground unit was in Gatwick UP sidings this morning at 06:59........

 

 

 

[phil-b259]

3 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

This sounds like an accident waiting to happen.

On finances, the railways need enough money to cover their costs and future investment.  Under BR they didn't get enough investment because the government couldn't afford to keep on increasing subsidies. 

 

Correction!

 

Under BR they didn't get enough investment because the government deliberately refused couldn't afford to keep on increasing maintain let alone increase subsidies in real terms.

 

Yet said same Government was quite happy to spend six times as much year on year after privatisation rather than admit it (or at least their variant of it) actually was a massive mistake - inflated costs at every turn and with most of the supposed 'gains / innovation' being things BR could have done anyway had they been given the same amounts of cash.

 

 

[Nearholmer]

I'm dredging my memory, trying to remember how staff travel worked under not-Great BR, and IIRC:

 

- most staff got reduced rate residential travel, home to place of work, free while you were a trainee or apprentice;

 

- most staff got reduced rate travel everywhere for other trips, I think 25% of full price singles and returns (which meant the reduction was a lot less when compared with Day Returns);

 

- most staff got four free passes, return trips to somewhere, each year, and everyone booked four trips from Penzance to Wick, unless they had a pressing desire to go east or west, in which case Blaneau Ffestiniog to Berney Arms, or the like!

 

The perks rose with rank, and graduated to First Class, and at a still fairly lowly level one got a regional free pass, and free passes across all UIC railways, and all others by polite request. The wife of one of my colleagues worked in the holiday travel industry, and could secure freebie hotel accommodation, so we ran a couple of long-weekend office outings to Switzerland, gallivanting all over the place, paying no more than the price of food and tips!

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

A lot of it has more than a hint of 'solving' the wrong problems without identifying the right ones.

 

 

Why is that a surprise?

 

As long as the Government have this obsession with outsourcing / contracting out there will always be artificially created barriers which hinder smooth working and keep Lawyers / accountants busy.

 

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

For example ticketing at present offers numerous ways for people who can be bothered to save money on fares (even without split ticketing) but this looks to be a return to the National Fares Manual.  

 

 

A shake up here is well overdue though.

 

Season ticketing most definitely needs reform to reflect the fact that an awful lot of people don't don't / won't want to commute 5 days week any more.

 

Moreover the fact split ticketing exists is a pretty damning incitement of the current system - it shouldn't need people to get creative to be quoted the cheapest fares

 

 

[InterCitySpud]

17 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I'm dredging my memory, trying to remember how staff travel worked under not-Great BR, and IIRC:

 

In 1990 just before I left, I used to get six free passes annually, you would just write the date in on the day of travel and unlimited 1/4 fares. As you say, you would visit Penzance on the free but if just a short trip use the quarter fare, saving the freebies for long treks.

 

Despite being 2nd class (the pass not me!), I was never moved out of first on a BR staff pass.

[Nearholmer]

Straight from the horses' mouths?

 

Rail magazine are issuing invitations to join a Webinar with Keith Williams and Sir Peter Hendy.

 

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Dunsignalling]

I started in 1992, and the Priv travel allowance at the time was (IIRC) ten 48-hour free passes, plus a 75% discount on ordinary tickets. The free passes increased with length of service and my 2021/22 "Retired" card has 16 date boxes. Thanks to Covid, I only used one on last year's!

 

I was fortunate to have started when I did, because signallers recruited after Railtrack came into existence have no entitlement whatever. Hopefully, that may change under the new regime. 

 

John

Edited May 20, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Titan]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

One model for inter-regional rail, which can't sensibly covered by delegation to regional mayors/authorities, although I've not thought about it in great depth, might be a national board of elected transport commissioners, holding delegated powers.

 

 

You could call it the British Transport Commission?

[HonestTom]

3 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Woke livery perhaps?

 

DRINK!

[Nearholmer]

31 minutes ago, Titan said:

You could call it the British Transport Commission?

 

Surely, it would have to be The Great British Bake Off  Transport Commission.

[mdvle]

 

4 hours ago, Classsix T said:

I do wonder how this will affect ROSCOS now, do the banks have to give us the stock back?

 

Think of ROSCOS as a way to apply PPP to train buying, so the government doesn't have to pay the capital costs upfront, while making their banking friends happy.

 

So a return to railway owned rolling stock would seem to be unlikely - in fact it is likely even BR would have embraced buying rolling stock this way once PPP and its successors become popular.

[AMJ]

At least we no longer need to adhere to EU laws on nationalised v private railways.  It has probably been discussed in the DfT for some time especially since the pandemic has hit the way folks use and or are likely to use transport in the future.

 

We have seen i already with Wales taking over the complete shooting match and can expect similar with Scotland.

[TravisM]

Deep down I feel that this can only be a good thing and though privatisation has been a rocky road, there has been a number of positives which have been largely ignored by the media as they seem obsessed with the negative.

 

With passenger service coming back under one umbrella, can GBR renegotiate the terms and charges by the leasing companies?  Could this also be the end of leasing companies in the future as GBR could acquire future rolling stock directly and by-pass them?

[96701]

13 minutes ago, AMJ said:

At least we no longer need to adhere to EU laws on nationalised v private railways.  It has probably been discussed in the DfT for some time especially since the pandemic has hit the way folks use and or are likely to use transport in the future.

 

We have seen i already with Wales taking over the complete shooting match and can expect similar with Scotland.

Wales is currently a mixed bag. The whole of the Wales and Borders Route is run by Keolis Amey, however there infrastructure ownership and maintenance involvement is the Core Valley Lines only. Network Rail is still responsible for the rest of Wales and Borders.

Edited May 20, 2021 by 96701
bad grammar.

[Joseph_Pestell]

27 minutes ago, AMJ said:

At least we no longer need to adhere to EU laws on nationalised v private railways.  It has probably been discussed in the DfT for some time especially since the pandemic has hit the way folks use and or are likely to use transport in the future.

 

We have seen i already with Wales taking over the complete shooting match and can expect similar with Scotland.

 

I have not noticed any legislation in Parliament to change the current status. Under B****t, all legislation remains in place as per EU until a new act is passed at Westminster.

[Phatbob]

Well, I've had a speed-read through the Williams-Schnapps plan.
Not one single mention of ROSCOS.
No mention of passenger comfort until page 55, but on page 72, this little gem (paragraph 41);

41. Trains will be made more pleasant to travel on and easier to work aboard.

Because the emphasis was on carrying more passengers, recent designs of new trains have compromised on passenger comfort, with hard seats in close confguration and features such as tables no longer commonplace. In this new era, where more travel is likely to be discretionary, the railways will have to do more to satisfy their passengers.
Great British Railways will introduce new design and ride standards that will make sure all new trains are more comfortable than their predecessors. Subject to negotiations with suppliers and business case approval, Great British Railways will bring forward the normal replacement cycles on existing trains equipped with "ironing-board"-like seats, beginning with long-distance trains, in order to make the seats signifcantly more comfortable, or to replace and eventually remove them altogether.

 

 

[rab]

6 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Currently TOC employees get free travel for themselves and family on their employer and any other franchise run by the same company.  Once we become one big happy family, will we get free travel network wide?

You mean like it used to be  !

[RichardT]

41 minutes ago, AMJ said:

At least we no longer need to adhere to EU laws on nationalised v private railways. 

What "EU laws on nationalised v private railways"?  If you mean the requirement to account for infrastructure and operations discretely it was only the 1990s Conservative UK government that decided to interpret that in such an extreme way so to justify their utterly incoherent privatisation plans.  Don't go blaming the EU.

 

41 minutes ago, AMJ said:

We have seen i already with Wales taking over the complete shooting match and can expect similar with Scotland.

Which makes a nonsense of the "Great British Railways" name.  "Great English Railways" would be accurate, but even less euphonious.  All part of the Prime Minister's on-going fantasy that he can undo devolution by bluster.

 

(OT: Am I the only one who is heartily sick of the tedious "Great British [Public/Breakfast/Pint etc]" phrase formation?  As the "Great" in the name of the island means "Big", not "Fantastic", the cliche isn't even accurate.)

 

RT

Edited May 20, 2021 by RichardT
Missing words

[rab]

Interesting timing; an attempt to divert attention away from cracks in rolling stock?????

Edited May 20, 2021 by rab