New structure for British railways

[frobisher]

4 minutes ago, RichardT said:

As the "Great" in the name of the island means "Big", not "Fantastic", the cliche isn't even accurate.)

 

Arguably it does mean Fantastic as the phrase "Great Britain" was used as an upsell after the crowns of England and Scotland were unified under James VI of Scotland.  Beforehand the island was merely "Britain", but now that "all of it" was under the one crown it was Great!

[Gwiwer]

11 minutes ago, Phatbob said:

Well, I've had a speed-read through the Williams-Schnapps plan.
Not one single mention of ROSCOS.
No mention of passenger comfort until page 55, but on page 72, this little gem (paragraph 41);

41. Trains will be made more pleasant to travel on and easier to work aboard.

Because the emphasis was on carrying more passengers, recent designs of new trains have compromised on passenger comfort, with hard seats in close confguration and features such as tables no longer commonplace. In this new era, where more travel is likely to be discretionary, the railways will have to do more to satisfy their passengers.
Great British Railways will introduce new design and ride standards that will make sure all new trains are more comfortable than their predecessors. Subject to negotiations with suppliers and business case approval, Great British Railways will bring forward the normal replacement cycles on existing trains equipped with "ironing-board"-like seats, beginning with long-distance trains, in order to make the seats signifcantly more comfortable, or to replace and eventually remove them altogether.

 

 

An acknowledgement that complaints about seating comfort (the lack of it) have mushroomed and have still come in at a rate through the pandemic.  The comment suggests that the Hitachi sets will be first to be dealt with which is admirable and no more than the paying customer (and the occasional staff free passholder!) deserves.  I had already made the choice to either drive between London and Cornwall or take the much slower "LSWR route" via Salisbury and a local train beyond Exeter rather than endure 5 - 6 hours on the ironing boards and often with no excuse to get up and leave them.  There is, of course, also little or no on-train catering either these days.  

 

Commuters have voted with their bottoms south of the Thames and the frequent class 700-worked Thameslink services have probably seen a decline in traffic which has shifted onto the class 377-worked Victoria (and infrequent London Bridge) services rather than deal with those seats.  Until recently they didn't have a tray table for your morning coffee either though that omission is in the process of rectification.  Occasional leisure travellers have sometimes stared in disbelief at the interior of a 700 when faced with the likes of a Brighton - Cambridge journey.  Even my humble 30-minute commute is less comfortable when a 707 turns up than aboard a 455 / 456.

 

 

[Grizz]

3 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Correction!

 

Under BR they didn't get enough investment because the government deliberately refused couldn't afford to keep on increasing maintain let alone increase subsidies in real terms.

 

Yet said same Government was quite happy to spend six times as much year on year after privatisation rather than admit it (or at least their variant of it) actually was a massive mistake - inflated costs at every turn and with most of the supposed 'gains / innovation' being things BR could have done anyway had they been given the same amounts of cash.

 

 

Totally! 
 

‘The Crumbling Edge’......deliberately made to fail....how else could you run it into the ground to justify privatisation and the continuation of the road building 

[Grizz]

Or does it mean “Oh Great....British Railways”..?

[caradoc]

7 minutes ago, rab said:

Interesting timing; an attempt to divert attention away from cracks in rolling stock?????

 

Bit late for that isn't it ? 

 

[Dunsignalling]

Bet they're glad they didn't release it all the day before, though....

[mdvle]

56 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

With passenger service coming back under one umbrella, can GBR renegotiate the terms and charges by the leasing companies?

 

Unlikely.  Like anyone GBR will need to wait for the existing contracts to end to change the terms, and unless the government is willing to seize the equipment the leasing companies will still hold a strong position.

 

56 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

Could this also be the end of leasing companies in the future as GBR could acquire future rolling stock directly and by-pass them?

 

The problem in any rolling stock purchase is the up front capital cost - which is why leasing is so popular, not just with the railway but with private companies in general.

 

I don't see that changing - the PM (regardless of party) doesn't like big hits to the budget that mean they can't spend money on other things, and politicians like keeping people like bankers happy by providing business to them.

[Flittersnoop]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The man who puts the anal into analysis.

I tried listening to Jeremy Vine's radio show today - there was some bloke with a Brummy accent slagging off the old BR, bigging up these proposals and generally sounding a bit unhinged - turns out it was Pete Waterman. There was another guest, Ellie Harrison, who has founded "Bring Back British Rail" - she actually made a lot more sense.

[DK123GWR]

4 minutes ago, Grizz said:

 

Well I would say that this livery certainly does have a W and a K in it, and it does need a four letter word to describe it.......

 

.......and not with K being the third letter but the forth letter.....with a and n being the second and third letters respectively......       

I actually think it would look quite good with the rainbow extended all the way along the train (and the ends left as they are). It would help to clean up what is currently a rather busy livery.

[RJS1977]

5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

If we're talking about passenger services, there are precious few of the former these days....

 

Though I do agree that GW's shorty HSTs would look rather good so finished.

 

John

 

If I had access to our club cupboard, I could post a photo of one!

[RJS1977]

8 minutes ago, Flittersnoop said:

I tried listening to Jeremy Vine's radio show today - there was some bloke with a Brummy accent slagging off the old BR, bigging up these proposals and generally sounding a bit unhinged - turns out it was Pete Waterman. There was another guest, Ellie Harrison, who has founded "Bring Back British Rail" - she actually made a lot more sense.

That said, in the 46 years of BR's existence, we had 8 of the UK's nine worst peacetime rail disasters, lost a third of the network,and got Pacers....

[Nearholmer]

8 minutes ago, Flittersnoop said:

turns out it was Pete Waterman

You wouldn’t think that a life spent promoting pop bands would fit a man to lead a railway, but think about this ...,,, have they ever been seen in the same place, at the same time, eh?

 

 

(It’s actually hard to imagine that they haven’t, given shared interests, but let’s see.)

[caradoc]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I'm dredging my memory, trying to remember how staff travel worked under not-Great BR, and IIRC:

 

- most staff got reduced rate residential travel, home to place of work, free while you were a trainee or apprentice;

 

- most staff got reduced rate travel everywhere for other trips, I think 25% of full price singles and returns (which meant the reduction was a lot less when compared with Day Returns);

 

- most staff got four free passes, return trips to somewhere, each year, and everyone booked four trips from Penzance to Wick, unless they had a pressing desire to go east or west, in which case Blaneau Ffestiniog to Berney Arms, or the like!

 

The perks rose with rank, and graduated to First Class, and at a still fairly lowly level one got a regional free pass, and free passes across all UIC railways, and all others by polite request.

 

When I moved into Glasgow Control in 1984, the senior Controllers in Management Grades (MS1 to 4) got First Class privs; Not that it bothered me, as a lowly Grade A Controller I never expected to rise that high. By the time I did actually become an MS1, BR had moved the goalposts and First Class now applied to MS2 and above; This was also still when MS grades who were paid for overtime (which had to be the case in Control) only got the money every 13 weeks, and the first 20 hours O/T each period was not paid at all. And of course, when I later became an MS2, First Class was now MS3 and above ! Not until NR days did I eventually become entitled to First Class, a privilege for which I am extremely grateful. 

 

[Railfreight1998]

7 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Will it be the end of Scotrail?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-57187472

 

Doubt it, although the name may have more issues than just with GBRailfreight.

[caradoc]

1 hour ago, mdvle said:

in fact it is likely even BR would have embraced buying rolling stock this way once PPP and its successors become popular.

 

BR did of course resort to hiring, rather than buying, stock way back in 1967 ! (The Class 50s)

 

1 hour ago, AMJ said:

We have seen i already with Wales taking over the complete shooting match and can expect similar with Scotland.

 

Although as 96701 says most of the Welsh infrastructure (and of course all of Scotland's) is still the responsibility of Network Rail, and neither the Welsh nor Scottish Governments controls the long distance cross-Border* or freight operators. 

 

* Caledonian Sleepers excepted

 

Edited May 20, 2021 by caradoc
Clarification

[caradoc]

39 minutes ago, mdvle said:

Like anyone GBR will need to wait for the existing contracts to end to change the terms, and unless the government is willing to seize the equipment the leasing companies will still hold a strong position.

 

I'm not so sure they will be in a strong position; If not leased by/given to/seized by the Government there's not much else their rolling stock can do ! 

 

[Phatbob]

Free staff passes and priv rate tickets over the network did have a benifit for we punters too.  All the staff knew the network, because they used it.  Knowledge rapidly lost after privitisation.  It's too long a story to go into in full, but I once had a heated conversation with a Virgin Trains staff person that London was between Warrington and Croydon, because her computer said "Kensington Olympia" was the route I had to take and "not a station in London".  Struth!

 

 

[Nearholmer]

You didn’t have one of those sneaky “not via London termini” tickets, I hope, ‘cos if you did, her computer was right; change at Watford Junction.

[mdvle]

25 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

I'm not so sure they will be in a strong position; If not leased by/given to/seized by the Government there's not much else their rolling stock can do ! 

 

 

And if not leased by the Government, then without rolling stock there isn't much of a railway to run...

 

Yes, in theory the Government could buy all new rolling stock - but that would take a long time where the only options would be to run no trains or to lease trains.

[RJS1977]

And what happened last time the government bought rolling stock?

[corneliuslundie]

It will be rather like the Brexit negotiations: who will cave in first, the government or the ROSCOs.

Jonathan

[TravisM]

1 hour ago, Flittersnoop said:

I tried listening to Jeremy Vine's radio show today - there was some bloke with a Brummy accent slagging off the old BR, bigging up these proposals and generally sounding a bit unhinged - turns out it was Pete Waterman.

I’m always surprised when they keep rolling out Pete Waterman and asking his opinion, which is generally flawed.  He’s a failed railway operator and it could be the same said about his model railway company.

 

Why can’t they get people like Christian Walmar who are experts in the field?

[43110andyb]

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/rst.html All your questions about (current) Staff travel answered here.

[62613]

23 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

And what happened last time the government bought rolling stock?

Have the actual government ever bought trains; or have they authorised other bodies to buy them? (or is that your point?)

[Phatbob]

55 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

You didn’t have one of those sneaky “not via London termini” tickets, I hope, ‘cos if you did, her computer was right; change at Watford Junction.

Nope.  Saver return from WBQ to ECR, which even had the + on it to confirm it would work the barriers on the tube.  A journey I've done a squillion times.  She just had a Z- in her geography exam!