If you were starting a new rtr manufacturer...

[Retro_man]

 

Years ago when I was starting up Model Railway Imports in Canada, a seasoned veteran in the business gave me some great advice - "If you want to make a small fortune in model trains, start with a large fortune!"

 

Steve

Ex Model Railway Imports, Canada (retired).

[Compound2632]

32 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

 How many more 19th-century prototypes are there to produce as new models?

 

Hundreds - and that's just locomotives.

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Hi @Joseph_Pestell
Sorry about the irreverent post above, I couldn’t resist!

No apology needed. I don't mind a bit of irrevence.

 

Even guilty of it myself sometimes.

[Joseph_Pestell]

5 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Not really a small producer question but I could not find a better location for it.

 

This is by way of being a bit of marketing research. Given the current situation between Hornby and retailers (which seems to be a recurring event every couple of years), I think that we need a new entrant into the market if we are to keep the hobby vibrant. What should this new entrant produce?

 

I would like you to cast your minds back to around 1970. Triang-Hornby had about fifteen locos in the catalogue, some in various liveries. There were four types of Mk1 carriage, again in various liveries, and a selection of goods wagons. I would suggest that this would be the starting point for a new entrant.

 

I would like for you to answer these questions as objectively as possible. This is not a wishlist for what you want but an attempt to build up an idea of what would be a viable range to bring to market.

 

Qu1) Let's assume a constant standard of budget/detail across the range. What should that be: budget, detailed, super-detailed?

Qu2) Diesel era / steam era / a mix?

Qu3) Which 15 locos (inc DMU) would you include? (Note: Don't worry about replicating an item in another manufacturer's catalogue).

Qu4) Which 10 items of coaching stock would you include? (Note: All liveries included).

 

If some clever bod wishes to make this into a poll, please do. I have forgotten how.

 

I will make a start but come back to it later when I have more time.

 

I think that the range should be predominantly diesel era (10/5?) and "budget". By budget, I mean all dimensions accurate, no sharing of chassis except where correct to do so. But no fiddly and fragile details. Modellers who want them can add them from after-market parts.

 

I think that we have reached an era where DCC-only makes sense but with sound as an extra

 

In the diesels, I would put 37,47 and 66 as "must have". I will give some more thought to the other seven but I think 31, 101, 150, 158 and 50 will probably make the cut.

 

Steam. Has to be a Black 5, two 060T......

 

Coaches: 5 types of Mk1, 4 types of Mk3 (in both loco-hauled and HST format) ... 

 

Back to the list. I will include that Caprotti 5 that someone suggested. Currently the most obvious absentee in current rtr.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Joseph_Pestell
typo

[BMacdermott]

35 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Back to the list. I will include that Caprotti 5 that someone suggested. Currently the most obvious absentee in current rtr.

That was me.

 

Brian

[Legend]

Its a tricky one . I think that the market is at saturation point , just look at all the numbers of models that are coming out this year across all suppliers compared to early 1970s Tri-ang Hornby period. There is a limited amount of cash to go round. The market has changed it maybe we will never see the likes of Hornby or Bachmann with full ranges along the lines you envisage again . Instead it maybe that the future is a series of small well thought of companies that produce specific locos as opposed to a whole range . I'm thinking of Accurascale , Realtrack, Cavalex, Rapido even Heljan and Dapol

 

However were there space  then I think the range laid out by the OP is pretty fair . Just look back at the 70s and Mainline entering market . Small 0-6-0 (J72) , 4-6-0 (4MT) and large diesel (cl45) a range of Mk1s and open /van/tanker/ guards vans . Lima pretty much followed that J52, Castle , Deltic  with the 09 and 33 clearly filling gaps at the time .  Airfix were a bit more adventurous with a 31 . Always thought that a strange choice as the Triang Hornby 31 was still available until 76. Airfix also started with the Prairie. 

 

So assuming there is space (which ironically Hornbys dealing with Hattons may just have created)  Id say 0-6-0T/4-6-0 for steam , big transition era diesel  , HST power car (Hornby over priced , ripe for charry picking) Mk3s and Mk1s

 

If you were going right up to date then I think its really got to be Class 800 IET, Class 66 and maybe a Turbostar .

 

They should be detailed enough to create demand over existing versions but brought in at a price lower or equivalent . I think Accurascale understand this concept very well. 

[MJI]

What is noticable is there are huge holes in ranges.  Just look past locos.

 

BR DMUs for a start.

 

Can you buy a new Metro Cam 101 3 car set?

 

100 not done

103 not done

104 is coming

107 not done

 

115 116 118 119 120 123 124 125 126 127 129 not done

 

116 118 125 would be easy goal for Bachmann

 

Carriages, even including kits there are huge gaps

 

Wagons, too many to start but only a few percent of designs are available.

 

That said no GWR small prairies new at the moment.

[AMJ]

Looking at many of the manufacturers from USA they often produce the same loco with differing levels of details and these reflect the pricing.  Hornby do it vaguely with Railroad, Railroad plus and main range.  For folks starting out in the hobby or kids we need less detailed budget friendly items.  In USA they often provide detail packs which would be fitted to detailed items, then there are the delicate models classed as museum quality.

[Joseph_Pestell]

48 minutes ago, Legend said:

Its a tricky one . I think that the market is at saturation point , just look at all the numbers of models that are coming out this year across all suppliers compared to early 1970s Tri-ang Hornby period. There is a limited amount of cash to go round. The market has changed it maybe we will never see the likes of Hornby or Bachmann with full ranges along the lines you envisage again . Instead it maybe that the future is a series of small well thought of companies that produce specific locos as opposed to a whole range . I'm thinking of Accurascale , Realtrack, Cavalex, Rapido even Heljan and Dapol

 

However were there space  then I think the range laid out by the OP is pretty fair . Just look back at the 70s and Mainline entering market . Small 0-6-0 (J72) , 4-6-0 (4MT) and large diesel (cl45) a range of Mk1s and open /van/tanker/ guards vans . Lima pretty much followed that J52, Castle , Deltic  with the 09 and 33 clearly filling gaps at the time .  Airfix were a bit more adventurous with a 31 . Always thought that a strange choice as the Triang Hornby 31 was still available until 76. Airfix also started with the Prairie. 

 

So assuming there is space (which ironically Hornbys dealing with Hattons may just have created)  Id say 0-6-0T/4-6-0 for steam , big transition era diesel  , HST power car (Hornby over priced , ripe for charry picking) Mk3s and Mk1s

 

If you were going right up to date then I think its really got to be Class 800 IET, Class 66 and maybe a Turbostar .

 

They should be detailed enough to create demand over existing versions but brought in at a price lower or equivalent . I think Accurascale understand this concept very well. 

 

Various Turbostars is certainly one for the list. A unit that youngsters know well and can be presented in many different guises.

[Joseph_Pestell]

5 minutes ago, AMJ said:

Looking at many of the manufacturers from USA they often produce the same loco with differing levels of details and these reflect the pricing.  Hornby do it vaguely with Railroad, Railroad plus and main range.  For folks starting out in the hobby or kids we need less detailed budget friendly items.  In USA they often provide detail packs which would be fitted to detailed items, then there are the delicate models classed as museum quality.

 

As do some European manufacturers, with Roco in the lead. The 218n is not super-detailed but looks the part and has a huge motor that will run all day and pull a house down.

[HonestTom]

I think it's a difficult question. Would it even be possible to create a truly budget range these days? Hornby's Railroad range mostly uses old tooling that paid for itself years ago and they're a huge company with a lot of name recognition. To get a decent range up and running would require significant investment. I mean, any new range would, but a budget range would be going up against the big boys.

 

Personally, I think the way to go is either to go with a really eye-catching prototype (as with KR Models and the GT3) or something useful and complementary to existing models (as with Hardy's and their Kerr Stuart Victory).

 

If I was going the former route, I think I'd go with the Jones Goods. It's a prototype that was in service a long time and it's a Scottish loco, a region still very under-served. Plus there's the preserved example that was repainted in HR colours in BR days, so it wouldn't just appeal to Scottish modellers.

 

If the latter, some form of Manning Wardle 0-6-0 saddle tank. Again, in service a long time. Lots of them were built. There's a wide variety of possible liveries. It would complement existing industrial locomotives, but it would also be suitable for light railways. And they have a quirky, old-fashioned and appealing look.

 

My follow-up to whichever of these I went for would be a SECR brake van. Generally I think pre-Grouping rolling stock, particularly goods wagons, are a market worth pursuing.

[D9020 Nimbus]

The situation with manufacturers seems too like the 1980s. I'd be surprised if we don't see at least one manufacturer disappearing before the end of 2022. There are too many chasing a fixed pot of money, and copying the same prototypes, at least in OO (class 25s for instance).

 

I'd also not be surprised if at least one of the four main magazines stops publishing before then — of those magazines that publish their ABC-verified circulation figures (HM and Model Rail) they're both sharply lower than five years ago; RM are ABC-verified but don't publish the figures and never have, while BRM don't claim ABC verification anyway.

 

In the "heyday" of model railways, there were only three magazines. The US now has just two "conventional" magazines while in Germany AFAIK there is only one "pure" model railway magazine although there are a number which combine both model and prototype information (one of which — Eisenbahn Journal — ceased publication in December 2020).

[phil-b259]

4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

But that is the whole point of this thread. Hornby has an established go-to brand in the world of family railway modelling. And they are flushing that brand down the loo with their current treatment of retailers and the choice to go with high-price (by UK historical standards) super-detailed locos.

 

Nor do families want locos that are difficult to handle but not robust in operation. The quality of motors in these expensive locos is lamentable. For just a couple of quid more, they could be so much better.

 

 

Retail has changed - parents don't generally take their kids to a model shop to buy stuff if they are modelling novices entering the hobby for the first time. They are in fact more likley to have never have heard of Hattons in the first place and gone straight to Hornbys website or use Amazon to purchase their stuff.

 

As such Hornbys relationship with Hattons is rather irreverent to the new entrant you seem to be advocating. If your new entrant wants to go for the 'basic beginners' market then it needs to be able to tap into ordinary toy retailing - and with the demise of many toyshops / department stores with a toys section that has got a lot harder over the years. Simply being able to sell stuff through Hattons because Hornby won't doesn't come close to a serious business plan.

 

Remember RTR manufacturers do what they do to make money for themselves and their shareholders - they don't do it out of sheer love for the hobby.

 

So while I admire your enthusiasm you need to get real and understand how 'model trains' has practically vanished as a hobby / pastime for young people (compared to the hayday of the 1960s / 70s) and no amount of 'budget' items will fix that. Those youngsters who do buck the trend as it were and decide to take up / persevere with the hobby will usually have an experienced friend / relative to help encourage the passion and can help the newbie develop their understanding of the hobby - including the budget options available out there (including pre-owned items). Meanwhile adults returning to the hobby in later life will usually have moved on beyond the 'cheap and cheerful' end of the market and seek out more detailed products.

 

As I see it there simply is insufficient demand out there to sustain a new entrant developing a basic range from scratch - while the competition for peoples cash at the detailed end of the market is intense. Any new entrant (and as has been said Rapido plus Accurascale are good examples) will thus tread cautiously, picking off perceived gaps in locos or wagons as ways of establishing a foothold and not rushing to go into headlong competition with Hornby.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 21, 2021 by phil-b259

[Michael Hodgson]

8 hours ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Just for the record, if ihad a couple of million to drop into a new rtr company and wasnt bothered about getting a return Id launch "Great British Trains"  all stock would be p4 as supplied,

If you're calling your brand that I think the Government has already already decided to use that for 12" to the foot scale.

[Joseph_Pestell]

2 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

Retail has changed - parents don't generally take their kids to a model shop to buy stuff if they are modelling novices entering the hobby for the first time. They are in fact more likley to have never have heard of Hattons in the first place and gone straight to Hornbys website or use Amazon to purchase their stuff.

 

As such Hornbys relationship with Hattons is rather irreverent to the new entrant you seem to be advocating. If your new entrant wants to go for the 'basic beginners' market then it needs to be able to tap into ordinary toy retailing - and with the demise of many toyshops / department stores with a toys section that has got a lot harder over the years. Simply being able to sell stuff through Hattons because Hornby won't doesn't come close to a serious business plan.

 

Remember RTR manufacturers do what they do to make money for themselves and their shareholders - they don't do it out of sheer love for the hobby.

 

So while I admire your enthusiasm you need to get real and understand how 'model trains' has practically vanished as a hobby / pastime for young people and no amount of 'budget' items will fix that. Those youngsters who do buck the trend as it were and decide to take up / persevere with the hobby will usually have an experienced friend / relative to help encourage the passion and can help the newbie develop their understanding of the hobby - including the budget options available out there (including pre-owned items). Meanwhile adults returning to the hobby in later life will usually have moved on beyond the 'cheap and cheerful' end of the market and seek out more detailed products.

 

As I see it there simply is insufficient demand out there to sustain a new entrant developing a basic range from scratch - while the competition for peoples cash at the detailed end of the market is intense. Any new entrant (and as has been said Rapido plus Accurascale are good examples) will thus tread cautiously, picking off perceived gaps in locos or wagons as ways of establishing a foothold and not rushing to go into headlong competition with Hornby.

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Phil,

 

The whole point of starting this thread was to get some insight into what "family modelling" might be like now. I was a retailer nearly 30 years ago and so doubtless out of touch. So I find your post very relevant and useful.

 

Where do you draw your conclusion that parents would look online rather than at a retailer? And if they Googled "Model Railways", would that not bring up Hatton's website?

 

But I do accept your premise that a new entrant could also retail through Amazon or eBay.

[HonestTom]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Hi Phil,

 

The whole point of starting this thread was to get some insight into what "family modelling" might be like now. I was a retailer nearly 30 years ago and so doubtless out of touch. So I find your post very relevant and useful.

 

Where do you draw your conclusion that parents would look online rather than at a retailer? And if they Googled "Model Railways", would that not bring up Hatton's website?

 

But I do accept your premise that a new entrant could also retail through Amazon or eBay.

Interestingly, I just tried Googling “model railways” (using incognito mode - obviously my normal browsing habits would skew things otherwise). The top three results, in order, were Hornby, eBay and Hattons.

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Hi Phil,

 

The whole point of starting this thread was to get some insight into what "family modelling" might be like now. I was a retailer nearly 30 years ago and so doubtless out of touch. So I find your post very relevant and useful.

 

Where do you draw your conclusion that parents would look online rather than at a retailer? And if they Googled "Model Railways", would that not bring up Hatton's website?

 

But I do accept your premise that a new entrant could also retail through Amazon or eBay.

 

 

But just how much 'family modelling is there these days?

 

Even 30 years ago NOBODY I knew was the slightest bit interested in model railways amongst my pier group or family and I doubt in terms of society at large it has changed much since. I dumped it not because of cost - but because it was distinctly uncool and there was nobody to encourage progression from what might be termed the 'train set approach'

 

That is the nub of it - you are assuming that cost or availability are the biggest barriers to entry to the hobby - they are NOT. Its about perception and regrettably society at large sees 'toy trains' as something kids will have done with before they finish primary school.

 

One of the things that is quite interesting is how over the decades the demographic of the audience for Thomas is getting younger and younger. Its increasingly been seen as a 'pre-school' interest where as 30 years ago primary school kids watched it.

 

Now obviously some kids will continue with it - but in most cases thats because they have access to an experienced modeller who can offer support and encouragement to continue through what is probably the most difficult time in your life to practice the hobby.

 

Now that doesn't mean railway modelling is going to die out - I, like many returned to the hobby in adulthood once I had embarked on the career ladder - at which stage 'basic' models were not what I wanted to purchase. Increasingly RTR manufacturers have catered for this growing market with ever more detailed models as thats where the money is made.

 

Now its also true that this move to ever grater detail increases the cost for new entrants  - they need to be producing highly detailed models if they want to keep their bank managers happy. Yet doing this also means they cannot afford to push forward from the get go with a comprehensive range as you outlined in your original post. A slow but steady approach stands more chance of the company surviving and not failing through excessive debt.

 

 

[phil-b259]

The biggest thing in all of this though is the advocation of a new RTR manufacturer looks suspiciously like a 'Solution looking for a problem' Syndrome.

 

Just because something may look attractive from your personal standpoint doesn't mean (1) there is actually a wider need for it and thus (2) a positive business case can be made for it to actually happen.

 

If there really was significant demand for basic RTR models or someone felt they had a realistic chance of taking on Hornby and winning then they would have done it by now. The fact that all recent entries into the market have gone for (1) high detail and (2) limited initial range speaks volumes.

 

 

[WD1995]

The biggest problem I think would be the big players, if you produce a loco inevitably you would have to make it aware to the community to generate pre-orders and interest which would open the door for another manufacturer to rush one through and torpedo you.

 

That's the setback with producing a locomotive that will compete at their level which is most probably why the more recent manufacturers are producing more niche products with smaller runs.   

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, AMJ said:

Looking at many of the manufacturers from USA they often produce the same loco with differing levels of details and these reflect the pricing.

 

Not really (ScaleTrains sort of does, see below)

 

North American market.

 

There are essentially 3 big players (by big, bringing out multiple new tooled items a year) - Athearn, Rapido, ScaleTrains.

 

Athearn has, like Hornby, segmented their product line into Genesis, RTR, and Roundhouse - all new tooling goes into Genesis (now Genesis 2.0 as they have upped the features from 20 years ago) while the RTR and Roundhouse lines are older tooling, often downgraded from previous positions due to changes over time.

 

Rapido - essentially all highly detailed - they did attempt a lower price/lower detail line by customer was so negative they abandoned it after only 2 products (Dash 8-40CM and well cars in HO).

 

ScaleTrains - the newest big entry, just over 5(?) years old.  They are likely the one you are talking about with their Rivet Counter and Operator lines - the problem is that Operator sells 15% to the 85% of Rivet Counter, and so they have resorted to tricks like only offering a paint scheme on the Operator model to get enough orders to make a production run possible.  I can see the Operator line disappearing at some point in the future, or only be used in really popular models. (they also offer kits - but they are struggling to find prototypes that can be made with only a handful of parts that keeps the price below an Operator level product - and Museum which they use for really detailed models).

 

There are other companies (Atlas, Bowser, Bachmann (toys only really), Walthers) but they don't tend tool up a lot of new stuff and rely on re-running existing models.

[mdvle]

13 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

This is by way of being a bit of marketing research. Given the current situation between Hornby and retailers (which seems to be a recurring event every couple of years), I think that we need a new entrant into the market if we are to keep the hobby vibrant. What should this new entrant produce?

 

First question.  With how crowded the UK market is, and how much new tooled product is coming out each year (I seem to recall I counted something like 20+ items a year at one point a couple of years ago), with the Rapido UK staff saying one of their problems is finding stuff to make a model of, why do you think the hobby isn't vibrant?

 

Accurscale, Bachmann, Cavalex, Dapol, Heljan, Hornby, KR Models, Oxford Rail, Rapido Trains, Realtrack, Revolution as well as retailers Hattons, Rails of Sheffield, and Kernow Model Centre are all regularly tooling up new models.

 

That seems pretty close to the definition of a vibrant market to me.

 

13 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

I think that the range should be predominantly diesel era (10/5?) and "budget". By budget, I mean all dimensions accurate, no sharing of chassis except where correct to do so. But no fiddly and fragile details. Modellers who want them can add them from after-market parts.

 

I have sympathy for those on a budget who don't like the prices of new items today, though that (if one researches the history of this and likely other hobbies) is something that has always been true.

 

But while they make a lot of noise on online forums the sales numbers say they are a small part of the hobby.

 

Or, to put it another way, there is a reason no one else is rushing in to make a budget range of models - the cost of tooling combined with the large amount of product in the market (both new stuff arriving and re-runs of old tooling) means there is no way to make money on a newly tooled budget item because you can't get the necessary volume.

 

In your golden era you seem to be thinking of 2 factors gave manufactures the volume:

 

1) hardly any new product to take sales away

 

2) a lot of sales for the "train-set-kids" who played with their trains because there was nothing else back then, and who grew out of the hobby and never return (those kids who return to the hobby are still wanting and getting toy trains as a kid today).

 

You can't recreate the hobby of 30+ years ago, though one could lose a lot of money attempting to.

[locomad2]

15 hours ago, The Ghost of IKB said:

Just for the record, if ihad a couple of million to drop into a new rtr company and wasnt bothered about getting a return Id launch "Great British Trains"  all stock would be p4 as supplied, but easily modified to oo, each item comes complete with a 12 inch piece of p4 flexi track, on which to display the model or hopefully to inspire gauge changing.

 

 

 

Think someone already done this, several years ago free with a magazine called something similar for about £5. You got a quite well painted plastic body about 1:76 scale on a motorised chassis on a plastic base. I collected quite a few including 2nd hand for next to nothing ie car boots, charity shop, spent last couple of years quite easily fitting old working chassis underneath. You get quite good working models for next to nothing, quite a few threads on this site

[No Decorum]

My advice to anyone contemplating entry into the UK model railway market would be not to do it. As has been pointed out, prices are rising, most people’s budget is, at best, static and competition is fierce.

 

All right, you ignore that advice. First, avoid new scales. We have N, 00 and 0, each about double or half the size of the next one. Anything in between tends to wither. As you already seem to have sensed, the biggest market is 00. Where is there a gap? There isn’t much of a gap in main line diesels. There is a big gap in AC electrics but I fancy that the pantos might be a bit complicated to start with. Multiple units require a lot of tooling and would be an expensive way to start.

 

With steam the choice is vast and there are quite a few well-known types which haven’t been modelled. Better yet, pre-grouping. The market has shown it has a taste for it and the locomotives are largely inside cylinder. Focus very carefully. Either pick a company with very little already produced or look for the gaps in existing ranges. There are quite a few locomotives on the market which could do with a train to pull.

[xPrime586]

If I had loads of money and expertise (I have neither) the range would be post-WW2 greatest hits in HO using Accurascale’s model. No real competition with any other manufacturers for UK rolling stock, better fit for using Peco Code 75, potential to use existing product sold in other markets (e.g. containers) etc. etc.

Equally, there are probably a million reasons why my imaginary USP would end up in trouble ... 

 

Or ... 3 foot 6 inch NZ rtr :-)

[Joseph_Pestell]

8 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

But just how much 'family modelling is there these days?

 

Even 30 years ago NOBODY I knew was the slightest bit interested in model railways amongst my pier group or family and I doubt in terms of society at large it has changed much since. I dumped it not because of cost - but because it was distinctly uncool and there was nobody to encourage progression from what might be termed the 'train set approach'

 

That is the nub of it - you are assuming that cost or availability are the biggest barriers to entry to the hobby - they are NOT. Its about perception and regrettably society at large sees 'toy trains' as something kids will have done with before they finish primary school.

 

One of the things that is quite interesting is how over the decades the demographic of the audience for Thomas is getting younger and younger. Its increasingly been seen as a 'pre-school' interest where as 30 years ago primary school kids watched it.

 

Now obviously some kids will continue with it - but in most cases thats because they have access to an experienced modeller who can offer support and encouragement to continue through what is probably the most difficult time in your life to practice the hobby.

 

Now that doesn't mean railway modelling is going to die out - I, like many returned to the hobby in adulthood once I had embarked on the career ladder - at which stage 'basic' models were not what I wanted to purchase. Increasingly RTR manufacturers have catered for this growing market with ever more detailed models as thats where the money is made.

 

Now its also true that this move to ever grater detail increases the cost for new entrants  - they need to be producing highly detailed models if they want to keep their bank managers happy. Yet doing this also means they cannot afford to push forward from the get go with a comprehensive range as you outlined in your original post. A slow but steady approach stands more chance of the company surviving and not failing through excessive debt.

 

 

 

I don't think  that I suggested the whole range should appear immediately. 

 

More likely might be an introduction over three years. That's not just about finance. It's about finding production spots.

 

Bank managers don't care what you are producing so long as it is profitable. I don't greatly believe in this mantra that super-detailed is more profitable. More expensive, yes, but with a massively increased labour content so greatly increased cost.

 

One of the things, apart from the current Hornby supply situation, that motivated me to start this thread is the release of a "new" locomotive that has been well-received. Ironically it's a Hornby product, the CC72000 in their "Loisirs" range. "Loisirs" seems to be the sort of level of detail that I labelled as "detailed" in the OP - the middle ground. So far as I can make out, it is the same model as that first produced by Jouef in the early 1990s. Not as good as the more recent Roco version but still very good. It is being sold at much the same price level as it was in the 90s (€150 now, FF1,000 back then).  I do hope that it is a great success and we see others from that era such as the BB26000 "Sybic" which are still running today.