RevolutioN to produce OO Gauge TU013A Caustic Soda Tank

[Dungrange]

7 hours ago, tommyboy said:

Aberdeen Guild street

 

I don't suppose you know the date of that photograph?  I note that there are two photographs of 70700 at Aberdeen on Paul Bartlett's website (https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/icicausticsodatua) that are dated 13 March 2004.  The ATO logo is more worn on the above image, which could mean its a more recent photograph, although it also looks like it's taken from the opposite side (ie the placement of the 'Not to be loose shunted' instruction is not in the same location as on Paul's photographs.  Paul's photographs shows this in the middle of the wagon rather than to the left of the ladder.  I also note that the above photograph has not been taken in the same place as Paul's photographs, so 70700 was obviously moved between the date of the above photograph and the 13 March 2004, which would imply it was still operational in 2004 (ie it wasn't photographed dumped in the end of a siding awaiting disposal).

[Railfreight1998]

The photo of the ATO tank in the siding adjacent to the goods shed must have been taken before 2007, when the yard at Guild street finally closed. Looking at the state of it, it probably was awaiting scrapping, possibly being moved to a siding where road access was easier.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Railfreight1998

[Dungrange]

11 minutes ago, Railfreight1998 said:

The photo of the ATO tank in the siding adjacent to the goods shed must have been taken before 2007, when the yard at Guild street finally closed. Looking at the state of it, it probably was awaiting scrapping, possibly being moved to a siding where road access was easier.

 

I agree that it has to be taken before 2007.  There is a photograph on Railscot, which looks like it could be the same wagon (albeit it's hard to tell) in the same location, although it's actually dated 2000 - https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/62/333/.

[Growling]

Great announcement. These look really good and are a definite gap for a couple of eras.

 

I am modelling Scotland / Motherwell area in 1990.

From the look of photos and video on the WCML at that time it seems the china clay ones in Speedlink trains were probably still a mix of unbranded with a few in ECC blue.

 

Can anyone offer any further insight?

 

[hmrspaul]

10 hours ago, Dungrange said:

 

I agree that it has to be taken before 2007.  There is a photograph on Railscot, which looks like it could be the same wagon (albeit it's hard to tell) in the same location, although it's actually dated 2000 - https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/62/333/.

Mine is definately March 2004 and is very simply taken from the platform at Aberdeen station. It must have been seen by thousands but, as usual, just ignored. Unfortunately getting up to that far north in Scotland was rare for our group and David Ratcliffe doesn't know what use it had there or why. It is certainly a late survivor. IF anyone can be bothered to look you'll see that I captured this wagon in ATO finish in 1988 (and 1990) when it has the ATO panel. Fortunately I caught both sides.  This is quite early for a livery to be applied as a vinyl (or similar). 

As usual I expect David Ratcliffe will write this up for a magazine when the model is produced, which will be a year or more away so stop frothing. 

 

Paul

[Roy L S]

Out of my modelling era, but what a fascinating prototype. I wonder if there would be demand for one shot down to N, it certainly seems to have had a long enough life and sufficiently varied use to be worth a look?

 

Roy

[Dungrange]

13 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

 IF anyone can be bothered to look you'll see that I captured this wagon in ATO finish in 1988 (and 1990) when it has the ATO panel. Fortunately I caught both sides. 

 

Hopefully someone will be bothered to look, as 70700 in ATO livery is one of the variants that Revolution / Rainbow Railways are apparently offering.  However, I note from your photographs that the markings on this particular wagon have changed slightly between 1988/90 and 2004.  The earlier photographs show Hazchem panels that are absent on the later images and the later images show an instruction that the wagon is not to be loose shunted, which is not on the earlier photographs.  I guess the question for Rainbow Railways is whether this particular wagon will match your earlier or later photographs?

 

It would be interesting to know what the wagon was doing in Aberdeen, but suspect we may never know.  I assume that wagon was there on its own when you photographed it, since it's the only one you photographed on that date?

[MRDBLUE17]

3 hours ago, Growling said:

Great announcement. These look really good and are a definite gap for a couple of eras.

 

I am modelling Scotland / Motherwell area in 1990.

From the look of photos and video on the WCML at that time it seems the china clay ones in Speedlink trains were probably still a mix of unbranded with a few in ECC blue.

 

Can anyone offer any further insight?

 

Hi Growling,

 

Yes I think you are spot on from photos I’ve found whilst researching the workings they appeared in. Class 85’s, 90’s and 47’s seemed common on various speedlink workings up to Mossend. There was a fair mix of wagons from Cornwall with clay for several Scottish customers at that time. The TUA’s would then usually travel on to Aberdeen with the odd ones unloaded for road transport to Inveresk paper at Stirling.

 

Thanks

Mark

[Revolution Ben]

7 hours ago, Dungrange said:

 

I guess the question for Rainbow Railways is whether this particular wagon will match your earlier or later photographs?

 

 

Hi there,

 

Normally when designing painting diagrams for models I try to work from photographs.  In this instance, we haven't selected which base photographs to use but in due course we will have decorated samples showing exactly how the finished models will look, and images of these will certainly appear on the Revolution Trains and Rainbow Railways websites.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

Edited May 22, 2021 by Ben A
correcting typo

[SHerr]

Absolutely brilliant, hopefully this will also lead onto some of the other small barrelled TTAs, - Liquid Chlorine, Caustic Soda, molasses etc etc. I’ve always found it hard to believe these have not been picked off before. Well done to all involved.

[Flood]

TUA 101 and 102 duly ordered. That's another set of scratch-builds I don't have to make for Kirkhill.

 

Any manufacturer want to make a 4mm French Norsk Hydro curtain sided fertiliser wagon? I know Rivarossi make an HO model (and I've already ordered some of the Revolution Holdalls).

[Growling]

11 hours ago, MRDBLUE17 said:

Hi Growling,

 

Yes I think you are spot on from photos I’ve found whilst researching the workings they appeared in. Class 85’s, 90’s and 47’s seemed common on various speedlink workings up to Mossend. There was a fair mix of wagons from Cornwall with clay for several Scottish customers at that time. The TUA’s would then usually travel on to Aberdeen with the odd ones unloaded for road transport to Inveresk paper at Stirling.

 

Thanks

Mark

 

Thanks Mark.

Much appreciated.

 

I am assuming these are examples of the wagons on this photo (credit Michael J Collins) in '89?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30843245@N00/24442878848/in/photolist-DeW9iE

 

 

And in 90 at Mossend Yard 11/12 seconds in. (Credit Lowlandlocomotives)

 

 

 

Thanks,

Richard.

 

 

 

 

[MRDBLUE17]

55 minutes ago, Growling said:

 

Thanks Mark.

Much appreciated.

 

I am assuming these are examples of the wagons on this photo (credit Michael J Collins) in '89?

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30843245@N00/24442878848/in/photolist-DeW9iE

 

 

And in 90 at Mossend Yard 11/12 seconds in. (Credit Lowlandlocomotives)

 

 

 

Thanks,

Richard.

 

 

 

 

Hi Richard,

 

That’s an excellent photo and indeed the first 3 are the TU013A tanks. The video nicely captures a fairly freshly painted ECC blue version as well. 
 

Thanks

Mark

[meld]

On 21/05/2021 at 23:48, Dungrange said:

 

I don't suppose you know the date of that photograph?  I note that there are two photographs of 70700 at Aberdeen on Paul Bartlett's website (https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/icicausticsodatua) that are dated 13 March 2004.  The ATO logo is more worn on the above image, which could mean its a more recent photograph, although it also looks like it's taken from the opposite side (ie the placement of the 'Not to be loose shunted' instruction is not in the same location as on Paul's photographs.  Paul's photographs shows this in the middle of the wagon rather than to the left of the ladder.  I also note that the above photograph has not been taken in the same place as Paul's photographs, so 70700 was obviously moved between the date of the above photograph and the 13 March 2004, which would imply it was still operational in 2004 (ie it wasn't photographed dumped in the end of a siding awaiting disposal).

 

Tommyboys picture is of the opposite side to Pauls two pictures, the Solebar corner numbering ( 1 & 4 in Tommyboys picture against 2 & 3 in Pauls ones ) and the orientation of the discharge pipe give it away. 

[tommyboy]

managed to find my notes for the ATO wagon it was photographed in Aberdeen 17th March 1999

[tommyboy]

Also found this  heavily weathered  70708 in Mossend yard  10th March 1997

[The Fatadder]

16 minutes ago, tommyboy said:

Also found this  heavily weathered  70708 in Mossend yard  10th March 1997

Mark, you need to do a weathered version based on the above!

[RP82]

Just stumbled across this thread, and what a welcome addition these will be. I echo what others have said hopefully this extend to the other flavours of TUA and TTA in the future

[Lady_Farkham]

Excellent news!

 

Order placed. These will fit in perfectly on Farkham! 

[tommyboy]

70720 in the  yard at Ayr on route to Roche products at Dalry branded TTA but with he logos painted out and  registered to CAIB.  13/07/1994

[sc2016]

I was wondering if anybody could help me on the following:

I am looking at the TUA wagons and noticed on the Revolution Trains diagram that there were Pan Ocean/ ATO TUA Wagons that runned to Bridgewater and i am struggling to find much information about the traffic so i was hoping someone would help me on some of the questions i have got:

• How many wagons were usually on the Bridgewater traffic?
• Was the customer British Cellophane?
• How long did the ATO tanks get used for as it looks like they may off finished in 1991?
• Also did they get mixed into a train that had the China Clay TUAs in the consist?

Thanks for your help,

Samuel.

[MRDBLUE17]

1 hour ago, sc2016 said:

I was wondering if anybody could help me on the following:

I am looking at the TUA wagons and noticed on the Revolution Trains diagram that there were Pan Ocean/ ATO TUA Wagons that runned to Bridgewater and i am struggling to find much information about the traffic so i was hoping someone would help me on some of the questions i have got:

• How many wagons were usually on the Bridgewater traffic?
• Was the customer British Cellophane?
• How long did the ATO tanks get used for as it looks like they may off finished in 1991?
• Also did they get mixed into a train that had the China Clay TUAs in the consist?

Thanks for your help,

Samuel.

Hi Samuel,

 

Thanks for your interest in these wagons. I’ve not got a lot of information on the Bridgwater workings and photos are harder to find.
 

Certainly the ATO tanks carried caustic soda for the film factory on the Cumbrian coast around the same period. There are photos of tanks around Bristol and also workings to Baglan Bay. There seem to be several of the TTA types in rakes as well. I’ve not seen them mixed with the Clay ones on these workings I suspect just down to different routes taken in the south. I have however seen ATO tanks in workings in the North of England on the WCML legs with wagons such as the Dapol Silver bullets so they did work with clay. 
 

Sorry that doesn’t completely answer your questions but I will keep looking for further details of these particular workings. 
 

Thanks

Mark

[Revolution Ben]

8 hours ago, sc2016 said:

• Was the customer British Cellophane?

 

Hi Samuel,

 

Yes, that's right.  The information I have (from 'The Changing Face of Railfreight') is that the traffic ran from the mid 1980s via Speedlink, but no date for the end of this traffic.  The associated photograph shows wagon 70701 with in original livery with its ICI logo painted out.  It is coupled to another of the batch, but only the end is visible.

 

This traffic is so esoteric and varied that I suspect it will be very difficult to truly nail down all the uses, flows and dates, and there's a fair amount of leeway if you want it.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[black and decker boy]

On 21/05/2021 at 23:45, hmrspaul said:

Quite a good selection of them in the centre of this https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/icicausticsodatua

 

Can someone explain the ATO one at Aberdeen in 2004. It doesn't have a hazchem. 

 

David Ratcliffe writes them up in  

 

and he also mentioned 'Chemical Traffic on South Humberside', Rail Express November 2012, 

 

Very complicated as some of the china clays return to caustic soda use in 1990 or thereabouts. 

 

Paul

Looking at your website, would I be right in saying the ICI branded purple livery tanks weren’t in use by 1990 and only the ATO or unbranded livery tanks were running in Caustic Soda traffic?

 

China clay I think is covered in this thread with both ECC blue and unbranded working together.

 

thanks

 Graham 

[Flood]

From looking at Paul Bartlett's photos and a few others some wagons seem to have swapped traffic flows and back again within only a few years.

 

An example is 70725. On Paul's site it is shown with the ICI logo blanked out, at Exeter, dated 29 Oct 1987.  Although the shape is the same size as the white box and red ATO writing shown on 70700, and the original TRL logo is no longer there with the Tiger logo being present, a faint ICI logo can just be seen, as on a number of other photos as well. There is also a paint patch where the hazcem has been removed.

Private Owner Wagons Vol 2 also shows 70725, at Warrington, dated 2 Dec 1989. The blocked out area is still there but a 2R 1824 hazcem has been added. This suggests it is back in Caustic Soda use.

 

So from 1987 onwards I would suggest that the only way to check which traffic flow a wagon was used for, if not in ECC livery, is whether a hazcem is present or not.

 

Some other photos showing Clay Slurry livery variations are below (click to see enlarged in Flickr):

 

Copyright mailrail on Flickr

 

Copyright mailrail on Flickr

 

Copyright mailrail on Flickr

 

Copyright Michael J Collins on Flickr.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Flood