The Case of Hornby's Dissapearing Diesels

[Steamport Southport]

On 23/05/2021 at 16:00, Neil Phillips said:

I recall seeing a new China-produced green D6704 on sale in a shop window and being shocked at the RRP, considering that the only body assembly was pushing in the four headcode panels and gluing in the "glazing" behind those truly 'orrible cab windscreens! I always felt sorry for the Class 37, mounted first on Class 31 bogies and then on Class 47's, when all it needed at the time of going 'ringfield' was a single new moulding - a completely missed opportunity. Nah, let's do something more worthwhile instead, like an LBSCR brake van.........

 

Eh?

 

The LBSC brake van came out in 1979 to go with the E2!

 

It would have had no bearing whatsoever on whether Hornby made any diesels. In fact it would have went well with diesels and electrics if you repainted it as they lasted until about 1970 (longer in departmental service).

 

 

Jason

[Halvarras]

59 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Eh?

 

The LBSC brake van came out in 1979 to go with the E2!

 

It would have had no bearing whatsoever on whether Hornby made any diesels. In fact it would have went well with diesels and electrics if you repainted it as they lasted until about 1970 (longer in departmental service).

 

 

Jason

 

Yes OK, I concede the brake van wasn't completely pointless, for that reason, and came much later than the diesels went ringfield. I know the production of this would have had no effect on Hornby's diesel output, but one of their existing diesels required an upgrade which involved a single moulding which would have seen decades of use, so it was this lack of effort compared to some of the seemingly off-the-wall stuff which followed I was trying to highlight.

 

I suppose we should be thankful the Class 29 didn't arrive on Class 25 bogie frames, although at least the footsteps would have lined up with the cab doors........unlike the Class 37  

 

Oddly enough I did actually have an LBSCR brake van painted green with various Engineer's markings lifted from an SMS transfer sheet - I only moved it on via a certain large retailer's pre-owned department about 3 years ago.......

[tubs01]

slightly off topic but I always wonder what it had been like if Hornby made more diesels in the 90s and early 2000s. I mean, can you imagine a ringfield 66 or 67 with lights? but of course as always they focused on steam. I still don't see why the ringfield motors stopped the margate diesels from being in the railroad range, I mean the margate 47 was last released in 2013 I thnk?? as one of the northern belle locos

[298]

On 24/05/2021 at 12:28, andyman7 said:

The only photo that I am aware of for an 86 in such a state is of 86209 City of Coventry which would have been in that condition for a matter of weeks or months only.

 

I've just seen a photo on FB of a named 86221 at Carlisle on the 16/09/80. The headcode is white blind-0-0-white blind.

[NIK]

Hi,

 

A few years ago when Hornby was making big losses they analysed their sales and saw that about half their range was making most of their revenue.

 

They then reduced their range and seem to have more or less stuck to that ever since (they did have a splurge for the 100th anniversary of the Hornby brand but some of that involved minimal cad work and the stock quantities were limited).

 

Regards

 

Nick

[MJI]

I think the 25 is a nice model and the 47 looks like a 47

[JohnR]

54 minutes ago, MJI said:

I think the 25 is a nice model and the 47 looks like a 47

 

The 25 is still a decent model. ok, its never going to beat a SLW one, but then what will? Seems the obvious solution for a railroad small diesel loco. 

 

I recently acquired a China made Class 29. The paint job is really good, and the motor makes it a smooth runner....

[Halvarras]

9 hours ago, NIK said:

Hi,

 

A few years ago when Hornby was making big losses they analysed their sales and saw that about half their range was making most of their revenue.

 

 

It was a long time ago now but I seem to recall that back in the early 1970s the still relatively new 'Evening Star' disappeared for a while as Hornby claimed they could assemble six 'Jinties' in the time it took to put one 9F together. But in addition to the quantity of wheels and coupling rod parts the original 'ES', alongside many other models of the time, had soldered wiring connections - it made a comeback following the switch to simplified plug-in wiring in the mid-70s. I had one of those......it needed a replacement set of rear driving wheels as the flanges were,  shall we say 'of variable depth'! 

[Halvarras]

On 23/05/2021 at 00:04, tubs01 said:

Just a shame the later hymeks are so hard to come by!

 

Don't want to start a stampede but a non-running D7046 has gone up on a certain Merseyside area retailer's pre-owned website today for £45. I'd appreciate it if somebody could remove the temptation to buy it and complete the flush glazing as I already have too much to do!!

[blueeighties]

7 hours ago, MJI said:

and the 47 looks like a 47

You been to Specsavers lately? 

[MJI]

57 minutes ago, blueeighties said:

You been to Specsavers lately? 

 

No because they are not very good.

 

Do not mix up lack of detail with poor accuracy

[andyman7]

On 07/06/2021 at 16:03, JohnR said:

 

The 25 is still a decent model. ok, its never going to beat a SLW one, but then what will? Seems the obvious solution for a railroad small diesel loco. 

 

I recently acquired a China made Class 29. The paint job is really good, and the motor makes it a smooth runner....

Oh, that Class 29. The China versions had the correct green livery for a Class 29 although the body moulding was unaltered so still represented D6100-D6109 in as built Class 21 condition with a Class 29 headcode box stuck on. They came a bit unstuck with the blue version, they presumably used as a source a picture of a dirty Inverurie-painted version and therefore missed that the yellow should extend over the windscreen. Indeed of the four blue Class 29s produced between 1978 and 2003 they didn't get any of them right - R337 made from 1980 to 1982 supposedly depicted 6142 which never even became a Class 29. 

[Halvarras]

7 hours ago, andyman7 said:

Oh, that Class 29. The China versions had the correct green livery for a Class 29 although the body moulding was unaltered so still represented D6100-D6109 in as built Class 21 condition with a Class 29 headcode box stuck on. They came a bit unstuck with the blue version, they presumably used as a source a picture of a dirty Inverurie-painted version and therefore missed that the yellow should extend over the windscreen. Indeed of the four blue Class 29s produced between 1978 and 2003 they didn't get any of them right - R337 made from 1980 to 1982 supposedly depicted 6142 which never even became a Class 29. 

 

And the Chinese-made two-tone green D6119 was wrong because all of the blue Class 29 conversions (D6100/7/8/19/24/29/37) were outshopped in 1967, by which time green was obsolete.

[tubs01]

I just wish Hornby reintroduced them because st least we'd have some variety.. they've released loads of 47s and 37s but there's so many classic liveries they just never do. BR blue? EWS? DB? so many opportunities missed; I'm glad they're doing current liveries but so many decades of liveries (including the one I model, the 2000s ) missed out, with maybe a few here and there

[rob D2]

On 09/06/2021 at 16:42, tubs01 said:

I just wish Hornby reintroduced them because st least we'd have some variety.. they've released loads of 47s and 37s but there's so many classic liveries they just never do. BR blue? EWS? DB? so many opportunities missed; I'm glad they're doing current liveries but so many decades of liveries (including the one I model, the 2000s ) missed out, with maybe a few here and there

I just wish they’d withdraw from diesels and call it a day.

 

they show no appetite to cover the most prolific liveries and when they do they cock it up. ( triple grey wrong grey, sector logos in wrong place...now the 31 with ETH which it didn’t have ).

 

They haven’t expended the range beyond the excellent ( but old tooling  now ) class 60, similar boat for the 31 and 56.
 

There are seriously going to get shot out the water by new entrants with better models - the cavalex 56 is just the start. I can see them being outgunned on the 31 soon too. 60 probably not.

 

The original 37 from Hornby was an absolute dog - they chucked that out in mainline , EWS etc including some utterly laughable weathered double packs with the weathering applied by a short sighted marmoset with a 6 “ paint brush .

[Halvarras]

6 hours ago, rob D2 said:

 

The original 37 from Hornby was an absolute dog - they chucked that out in mainline , EWS etc including some utterly laughable weathered double packs with the weathering applied by a short sighted marmoset with a 6 “ paint brush .

 

I know the ones you mean! And didn't an EWS twin pack include 37298 with split boxes?! Then there was Limby D853 'Thruster' in maroon(ish) - it never was. And the most recent releases of the ex-Airfix Mark 2D's included an SO using the FO bodyshell, so was one seating bay short - why? Airfix themselves never did this, they created the correct tooling for the SO which Hornby now possess. And I'm sure we all remember Railroad 31256's mixed-up tooling, and now a standard BR van with shockvan markings........

 

IMO Hornby has long appeared to be a company of two halves, one half which can be bothered (but too often falling at the final decoration hurdle.....hmm, reminds me of someone else.....) and the other half which can't. With a little more effort all of the things I've listed above could have been correct, so claiming that they're not aimed at the serious end of the market would be no excuse. Besides, these failings are on display to all, so where is the company's self-respect?

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, Neil Phillips said:

And the most recent releases of the ex-Airfix Mark 2D's included an SO using the FO bodyshell, so was one seating bay short - why? Airfix themselves never did this, they created the correct tooling for the SO which Hornby now possess.

To be fair, a number of FOs were declassified (at least for a period) to SO, not TSO, during the late 80s.  You'd be modelling the exception rather than the rule, but they existed nevertheless.  What was annoying was that Airfix released all their sets with BSO + FO so there were always far too many FOs in circulation and not enough TSOs so those cost much more secondhand.

[MJI]

2 BSO 2 FO = 2 BFK 1 2E TSO

[Halvarras]

5 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

To be fair, a number of FOs were declassified (at least for a period) to SO, not TSO, during the late 80s.  You'd be modelling the exception rather than the rule, but they existed nevertheless.  What was annoying was that Airfix released all their sets with BSO + FO so there were always far too many FOs in circulation and not enough TSOs so those cost much more secondhand.

 

I was aware that some Mark 1 FOs were declassified in the 1970s but not aware of these so I'll backtrack slightly on that one. I remember buying my eldest son an Airfix train set in the early 1980s which consisted of two FOs and a BSO hauled by an inappropriate green Class 31 and I recall thinking at the time that this had been thrown together as a stock-clearing exercise. It was certainly very cheap, I can't remember where I bought it from but it wasn't one of the usual outlets. Most of it is still in the loft as he got heavily into cars instead (he's a walking encyclopedia on that subject!) but I repainted the loco as 31327 'Phillips Imperial'........well, I just had to!  The SOs arrived very late in the day for Airfix so not that many were made in comparison to the other two. A pity, but at least the tooling came into existence.

My son now has a son of his own, but I have a sneaking suspicion he's going to get into cars as well, as he's copying his dad in identifying car badges at a very young age........thinking about it now I was probably on a hiding to nothing with the train set!!

[MJI]

I think the mould for the 2D TSO is damaged hence the cheeky using FO as an SO.

 

I have more than 10 2D TSOs and so far 1 ex 2x BSO TSOs

 

I have also made from Airfix stock

 

2C BSO

2D TSOT

2D FK

2D BFK

2E TSO 2 methods

2F FO

2F TSO

 

only need 3 more TSO to finish my 3rd aircon set

 

[Halvarras]

3 hours ago, MJI said:

I think the mould for the 2D TSO is damaged hence the cheeky using FO as an SO.

 

I have more than 10 2D TSOs and so far 1 ex 2x BSO TSOs

 

I have also made from Airfix stock

 

2C BSO

2D TSOT

2D FK

2D BFK

2E TSO 2 methods

2F FO

2F TSO

 

only need 3 more TSO to finish my 3rd aircon set

 

 

Thirty-odd years ago I was cajoled into converting a BSO into a Scottish push-pull DBSO (it wasn't my personal modelling period) and although I can't vouch for its total authenticity it certainly looked the part. The biggest problem I recall was drilling and filing out the new windows...........the plastic was so thick, no wonder these coaches have remained free of the dreaded 'banana syndrome'! (The Hornby Mark 2s are the same - it really shows on those but at least they remain dead straight!) Certainly the Airfix models have a pleasingly solid feel to them. I have a photo of the DBSO conversion somewhere, perhaps I'll find it one day....

[Riddles]

23 hours ago, Neil Phillips said:

 

 I remember buying my eldest son an Airfix train set in the early 1980s which consisted of two FOs and a BSO hauled by an inappropriate green Class 31 and I recall thinking at the time that this had been thrown together as a stock-clearing exercise. It was certainly very cheap, I can't remember where I bought it from but it wasn't one of the usual outlets.

 

I recall W H Smith outlets stocking the Airfix sets at one time.

[Ravenser]

 

My efforts at cleaning up a Hornby 29 (or at least the bits that make one up) is here:

 

Class 21 - 1

Class 21 - 2

Class 21 - 3

 

Having robbed the 5 pole motor bogie out of a late production Hornby 25 to power it , that leaves me with an unpowered Hornby 25 body and chassis. I then acquired a Bachmann Rat with a slightly damaged (and somewhat inaccurate) body and the medium term project is to detail the Hornby body and mount it on the Bachmann chassis for a blue 25 that has a good modern mechanism and is better than Bachmann's effort

 

The two 25s cost me about £90 in total as second hand . Add in the 29 bits and detailing parts and that should give two Type 2s for under £140 total. In contrast a Dapol 29 and Heljan 25 would cost about £350 total

 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Ravenser

[37114]

I seem to recall in the infamous 2 part Hornby TV program a few years ago, Simon Kohler went to the old Margate factory with a chap who had been told to skip some of the old mouldings / toolings under the previous administration, so maybe that might explain the lack of recent class 25s etc? 

 

 

[tubs01]

1 hour ago, 37114 said:

I seem to recall in the infamous 2 part Hornby TV program a few years ago, Simon Kohler went to the old Margate factory with a chap who had been told to skip some of the old mouldings / toolings under the previous administration, so maybe that might explain the lack of recent class 25s etc? 

 

 

interesting, so does that mean the class 25 moulds are in the UK? just as weird as the mouldings for the prototype Hornby percy being in the far east.