Buying my first OO locos

[Standby]

Hi,

 

I’m finally going to build a OO gauge layout and need some advice on my first locos. I’ve got no particular era or location planned at the moment, just want to get going with something.

 

I’ll want sound and lights on them all and I’m getting a bit confused with all the options on sound, possibly fitting lights, new releases ‘coming soon’ etc.

 

Advice on what to go for, if should wait for an imminent new release and the best sound options (are the factory fitted sounds okay?) on the locos below would be appreciated.

 

Class 08 - any in blue 

Class 20 - probably in green

Class 17 - green or blue

Class 121 - green with whiskers

 

Thanks in advance for your time. 
 

Neil

[Dungrange]

 

8 minutes ago, Standby said:

I’ve got no particular era or location planned at the moment.

 

It sounds as though you already have an era in mind (ie 1970s) if you are asking about stock in a mixture of green and blue liveries.  You probably want to try and decide what you want to build first before buying too much stock, so that you focus on what is relevant to whatever you decide you want to model.

 

When it comes to DCC sound, you get what you pay for, so the Hornby Twin Track Sound (TTS) is more basic than a model fitted with a Zimo or ESU decoder, which could have half a dozen sounds playing simultaneously if desired.  Ideally try to listen to the sound file before purchasing to decide whether or not you are happy.  In my opinion, the factory fitted sounds are okay, but whether or not you agree will depend on how familiar you are with the real railway.  For example, I've never seen or heard a class 17 in real life, so I can't criticise the sounds of a model.  However, if you are familiar with the prototype, then you may feel that it is lacking something (I can't say what). 

 

For some models, the factory fitted speakers are not always the best, but these can be upgraded if you want and in many respects I think the speaker choice is as important as the sound decoder / sound project.  Some sound decoders can be reblown (ie a new sound file written onto the decoder if you are unhappy with the sound project that is provided), but many factory fitted sound models can't, so you're stuck with the sound project whether you like it or not.  That's why it's important to try to listen to sound before purchase if you're knowledgeable about what the prototype sounds like.

 

With regards your choice of models, in most cases I think there is only one or sometimes two manufacturers to choose between.  For the 08, you basically have the choice between the Hornby and Bachmann models.  The coupling rods are finer on the Hornby model (the main range rather than the railroad version), but I have examples of both.  The issue is that there has been changes to the design of the chassis of both models over time, so the newer models probably have more space for a speaker than some of the earlier models, which were manufactured before DCC sound was as popular.  I'm not even sure if my first Bachmann 08 has a DCC socket, but the latest models should be DCC Ready if not sound fitted.  I think you really just need to pick a model and identify what options are available and then ask specific questions about that model as it's rather difficult to give a general recommendation when you don't know what you want.

[Standby]

Thank you so much for your reply, lots of useful information.

 

From what you say I would probably choose an aftermarket sound and decoder. I’m not into trains per-se, so I have no

idea what anything should sound like, hence needing advice! I’d rather spend the money on something good now than find myself wanting to upgrade later.

 

As regards for what I want, it’s really whichever locos from the list perform / look the best, that’s what’s most important to me. I’ll be buying new and happy to wait a few months if there’s a newer model due.

 

Neil

 

 

[ITG]

As this hobby for many people is a learning experience, it’s pretty tricky to get things ‘right’ first time, more so because one’s own standards may well develop - essentially a component of what Dungrange refers to in how something sounds to your ears. After restarting in this hobby a couple of years ago, I have been happy to buy pre-owned DCC sound locos via various means. A couple of the early purchases (Hornby Railroad) I moved on after a year- nothing ‘wrong’ with them, except I found I preferred similar models (and sound of)  from Bachmann. Then I bought a Hornby class 08 with a Zimo sound and stay alive decoder - this became another favourite.

I guess what I’m saying is - have a listen, but be prepared to learn by getting it not quite right first time. Luckily, these models seem to hold their value, so reselling may not be a painfully expensive experience. Don’t buy everything at once.

[Philou]

Of those on your list I have the Heljan Class 17 (which was sound fitted for me) and a sound-fitted Dapol Class 121 (green + whiskers as it so happens). I don't know if the Class 17 is available now as a factory sound fiited model or not, but due to the limited space, the speaker in mine is too small and the sound can't get out from where it is and is therefore 'weak'. There is a thread somewhere on here where somebody did show a better option for placing the speaker - I shall be doing that - otherwise a very nice model that apparently works far better than the real thing!

 

Insofar as the 121 is concerned, the speaker location is better and is quite loud. The sound file is good too as it replicated the changing of gears very effectively - again, a very nice model.

 

I can't give you details of the sound set up (chip maker) or who's sound file as they're packed away for the time being - sorry.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[Bernard Lamb]

So, you know very little about 00 model trains yet you want to start by spending around £1k minimum.

Why not get a Hornby Railroad 31. looks good, runs well and fits in with your ideas, if a little geographically restricted. Get a cheap transformer and controller and some set track and just have a play. £200 if you are lucky.

Then go to a few exhibitions and talk to people. they are usually quite friendly. It is far quicker and cheaper in the long run to take things slowly rather than jumping straight in.

Bernard 

[Philou]

As an add-on, most diesel or electric locos come with lights fitted - though Bachmann and Dapol (of the major players) seem to do a better job of it than Hornby. The only fitting that you may have to do yourself is the lighting in coaches or a wagon in the case of a rear tail-lamp. I have both these jobs waiting to be done.

 

 

[Philou]

As @Bernard Lamb has said, it may be worth having a chat with people, or if you're lucky to have one nearby - a local model shop. If they're worth their salt, they'll only be too happy to show some and let you hear them.

 

They certainly worked their magic on me as I walked out with somewhat more in value than Bernard suggested above!

 

As a PS: The bundle did include the Blue Pullman and ECoSII DCC controller - so it wasn't a huge amount of stock. Do I think it was money well spent? Most certainly!

Edited May 23, 2021 by Philou

[Standby]

Thank you for all your advice so far.

 

Certainly, talking to my local model shop would be ideal, but I have Asperger's so that's not so straight forward! Going somewhere I haven't been before, talking to someone I don't know is something I would find difficult. My partner would help here, but she doesn't know everything I want to ask, and it's still uncomfortable for me.

 

I don't plan on buying all the locos at once, I know what controller I would like and any track I buy will be used as I have a few similar layout ideas.

 

I know I would like the locos mentioned in my first post and I'm slowly working out whether I need to buy the relevant Hornby, Bachmann, Dapol or the Heljan with your help.

 

Neil

 

 

 

[Dungrange]

6 hours ago, Standby said:

From what you say I would probably choose an aftermarket sound and decoder. I’m not into trains per-se, so I have no idea what anything should sound like, hence needing advice! I’d rather spend the money on something good now than find myself wanting to upgrade later.

 

Okay, but what is going to make you want to upgrade later?  If you don't know what a real class 17 sounds like, how are you going to at a later date decide that the sound file you have on your model class 17 is 'wrong'?  It's not like you are going to become familiar with the prototype at some point in the future.  

 

There are people on here who work or have worked on the railways driving real trains (or spent lots of time by the trackside) and claim that they can tell the difference between different subclasses of locomotive (and they probably can).  The class 37/0 locomotives apparently sound different from the 37/4 subclass, which again sound different from the 37/6 and 37/7 subclasses.  If you gave me a sound file for a class 37 and class 66, I could, I think, identify which is which, but if you were to give me four different class 37 sound files and ask me which subclass of locomotive was used to record the sounds, then I wouldn't have a clue.  Therefore if a ready to run manufacturer or an after market supplier sell me a decoder for a class 37/4 locomotive, I'll just take their word for it.  I don't know any different and I never will.  All I want is something that sounds like how I believe it should sound, so I'm typically hoping for a bit of bass.

 

If you ask on here who does the best sound project for any particular model, you'll get a range of opinions - some will prefer a sound file from provider A, whilst another will prefer the offering from provider B.  However, the choice of speaker is also important.  If you search on YouTube, you'll find several speaker comparison videos where the reviewer plays the same sound project through maybe ten different speakers.  It's amazing the difference that changing a speaker can make.  Therefore, whilst I might say I prefer provider A's sound file with speaker X, I may actually prefer provider B's sound file with speaker Y.  Obviously the aficionados can spend a lot of time trying different speakers and speaker locations in pursuit of what they feel is the best sound experience.  That can involve modifying the fuel tanks, or milling the chassis block to get their desired decoder / speaker combination to fit in the model.  However, what is the point in putting in all that effort if you don't know what the prototype sounds like?

 

What will make you want to upgrade later is technological improvements.  Over time, sound decoders have improved.  The amount of Random Access Memory (RAM) has increased, which means that sound providers can now include additional sounds or longer recordings of the start up sequence.  Speaker technologies have also improved over recent years.  You may therefore hear a DCC Sound locomotive at a future exhibition in five years' time and think that sounds better than mine.  However, there is nothing you can do about that, as the reason may well be that its a newer generation of decoder or a speaker that is not currently available.

 

Since sound is rather subjective, I think it's something that you have to hear and make up your own mind about.

[The Johnster]

My ex-girlfriend was an aspie, so I fully understand your difficulty with complex public discussions in a shop with people you are not familiar with.  Exhibitions might be an issue for you as well; they can get a bit crowded and fraught, and are not a good place to have a meltdown!

 

My advice FWIW would be to think about the layout before you part with money on locos and stock.  I would construct a simple small end to end trial layout with a run around loop and some sidings which you can use to test run your locos and stock when you do buy them, and only one loco is needed at first to test the layout.  The experience you gain will serve you well in planning and designing your 'proper' layout, and will potentially enable you to avoid the more expensive sorts of mistakes.  You will also be able to get a feel for how things go together, how the locos perform, and get used to using the couplings.  The trial layout can be used as a branch line off the proper layout when it is built, or extended and developed into the proper layout in it's own right.

 

Spend some time thinking about what you want the proper layout to do before committing time, effort, and money to it.  You may simply want to watch the trains running around, or run a compex timetable of your own devising, or enjoy shunting or the intellectual challenge of shunting puzzles.  These considerations will affect the form that the layout takes; for example, a continous run circuit type of layout is best for train watching, a timetable based setup might feature a junction with connecting services, shunting suggests a fiddle yard to terminus end to end, which may also be the most suitable if your space is limited as it can be constructed as a shelf along a wall, and shunting puzzles are set piece designs (google 'Inglenook' and 'Time Saver').  Inglenook looks simple; looks can be deceptive and it can produce some fiendish problems!

 

When you do come to planning the proper layout, bear in mind that you will not be able to easily reach much more than about 2 feet or 60cm in from the edge of the baseboards for uncoupling or rescuing derailed trains, and that it is all too easy to place delicate items like signals in the way of such activities!   I would avoid the set plans in booklets from the RTR companies, as they tend to use large amounts of expensive pointwork and not be particularly realistic.  You have probably spent some time observing real railways and have a fair idea already of the sort of track plan you want.  The common mistake that beginners make is to try to squeeze too much trackwork into the space they have and not allow for clearances in run around loops and headshunts, or between up and down tracks on sharp curves where long vehicles overhang at the ends and 'underhang' in the middle.  Underestimation of what will fit is advised, and will give an uncrowded spacious feel to the finished layout.  Your chosen locos are sensible fairly compact types which should not give too much trouble on the curves and can use shorter headshunts than, say, class 40 or 45.  A loco release headshunt for a run around loop needs to be at least as long as the longest loco that is ever going to use it.

 

Bernard Lamb's suggestion of a Hornby Railroad 31 is a good, though slightly longer one, and they were not as geograhically restricted as he suggests, being pretty much everywhere by the mid 70s and even in the green livery era could be seen in Eastern England, the Midlands, and the North East.  And you have said that you are not overly concerned with period or location yet anyway.  It is a good model for the price, and can be obtained with DCC. 

 

Advice on the locos is going to be pretty general; more or less any currently produced locomotive will suit your needs and will be available with DCC, usually with sound fitted, and in a variety of liveries, so it's largely a matter of your personal preference.  Performance of Hornby, Bachmann, Heljan, and Dapol is pretty good, and Accurascale are rapidly building a very good reputation for performance and realism.  Hornby tend to be less expensive, but this is a tendency and not a hard-and-fast rule!  I would avoid overhead electrics, at least to begin with, as the catenary equipment is an extra bother and it is best to keep things simple until you have a bit of experience under your belt. 

 

For the same reason I would avoid secondhand or eBay locos unless you are very sure of their provenance.  Buy new and any problems can be sorted under warranty; you need to be up and running and until your layout is fully tested and proved you need to be as certain as you can be of the reliability of your locos.  Later, you will be able to make more informed decisions about secondhand stock, which can be a bargain but can also be a bit of a punt.  That said, I have yet to buy a secondhand item that I couldn't fix and get running satisfactorily; mind you, I have been doing this stuff for over 60 years and can tackle most problems, in fact I enjoy it!

[Standby]

7 hours ago, Dungrange said:

Since sound is rather subjective, I think it's something that you have to hear and make up your own mind about.

Nicely summarised. Watching several YouTube videos has opened my eyes (or should that be ears?!) to the options available.

 

 

5 hours ago, The Johnster said:

My advice FWIW would be to think about the layout before you part with money on locos and stock.  I would construct a simple small end to end trial layout with a run around loop and some sidings which you can use to test run your locos and stock when you do buy them, and only one loco is needed at first to test the layout.  The experience you gain will serve you well in planning and designing your 'proper' layout, and will potentially enable you to avoid the more expensive sorts of mistakes.  You will also be able to get a feel for how things go together, how the locos perform, and get used to using the couplings.

I agree, in fact I have already built a 6 x 1 baseboard to practice on. I'll be comfortable enough with the wiring but will definitely want to practice positioning point motors accurately.  I have ideas for the eventual layout; branch line, small passenger trains (hence the Class 121 to start with) and some industries / businesses having goods delivered by the Class 20 with the Class 08 shunting. Modelling the scenery and buildings will be something I'll really enjoy as I've been building various types of models for nearly 40 years.

 

The biggest learning curve for me will be how to operate the layout, but that's part of the challenge and I think I'll enjoy researching that.  And if I do this whilst I build my practice set up I'll hopefully have a good idea of how the final layout will look.

 

Neil

 

[ikcdab]

16 hours ago, Standby said:

Hi,

 

I’m finally going to build a OO gauge layout and need some advice on my first locos. I’ve got no particular era or location planned at the moment, just want to get going with something.

 

I’ll want sound and lights on them all and I’m getting a bit confused with all the options on sound, possibly fitting lights, new releases ‘coming soon’ etc.

 

Advice on what to go for, if should wait for an imminent new release and the best sound options (are the factory fitted sounds okay?) on the locos below would be appreciated.

 

Class 08 - any in blue 

Class 20 - probably in green

Class 17 - green or blue

Class 121 - green with whiskers

 

Thanks in advance for your time. 
 

Neil

I thoroughly recommend YouTube "Sam's trains". He reviews pretty much everything that comes out and the class 121 is his latest video. I think he has covered all the locos you list. He is down to earth and his videos are very well produced, covering all the pros and cons of each loco. There are those who don't like his style, but I always find his stuff very helpful.

[Standby]

I did watch a couple last night, definitely helpful. Thank you

Neil

[wirey33]

Class 08 - any in blue 

The Hornby one is a little bit better than the Bachmann one,  but there's not much between them. Hornby do a TTS chip for the 08 - there are plenty of videos on YouTube. 

 

Class 20 - probably in green

The current Bachmann one is better than the old Hornby/Lima one. The recently announced update was a strange one; most people were fairly happy with the current tooling.  Folk may want to upgrade to the "latest'n'greatest" so you may pick up a second hand one at a good price. If you get a sound chip fitted make sure it has a volume control !! The constant whistling from these is the bane of many an exhibition (and I love 20's).

 

Class 17 - green or blue

Heljan is your only option here. A sound chip would have to come from one of the independent suppliers.

 

Class 121 - green with whiskers

Bachmann has the slight edge in detail over the Dapol one. The Dapol one can be found at less than £100, the Bachmann one is about £20 more. Sound fitted options are also available from both manufacturers - this link might be useful...

 

 

 

[Standby]

Thank you wirey33, this is exactly the information I needed.

 

Neil

[Chimer]

On 23/05/2021 at 15:59, Standby said:

I’m finally going to build a OO gauge layout and need some advice on my first locos. I’ve got no particular era or location planned at the moment, just want to get going with something.

 

 

But if you do get properly into this, you will probably come to want to avoid seeing models representing different eras and/or locations clashing, so it is worth giving this a bit more thought before diving in.  For instance, plain green and green with whiskers had pretty much vanished before blue appeared on the scene (cue dozens of photos proving me wrong ) as they sit at the opposite ends of the steam/diesel transition period - whereas green with yellow warning panels (small or large) can co-exist with either without jarring.

 

Similarly, I'm pretty sure (though diesels are not really my specialist subject) that the Class 17 had a fairly small geographical footprint compared with the 08.

 

Best of luck ...

[jonny777]

On 23/05/2021 at 15:59, Standby said:

Hi,

 

I’m finally going to build a OO gauge layout and need some advice on my first locos. I’ve got no particular era or location planned at the moment, just want to get going with something.

 

I’ll want sound and lights on them all and I’m getting a bit confused with all the options on sound, possibly fitting lights, new releases ‘coming soon’ etc.

 

Advice on what to go for, if should wait for an imminent new release and the best sound options (are the factory fitted sounds okay?) on the locos below would be appreciated.

 

Class 08 - any in blue 

Class 20 - probably in green

Class 17 - green or blue

Class 121 - green with whiskers

 

Thanks in advance for your time. 
 

Neil

 

 

I am going to be pedantic and say that it is unlikely that a 121 with whiskers would be seen with an 08 in blue, as the whiskers were succeeded by by small yellow panels in 1961/2. 

 

Also, it is unlikely that many 121s were seen alongside class 17s, which I doubt ventured south of the Midlands; and most of those times were delivery/running in turns. 

 

Just saying. But rule 1 applies to all layouts.

[Phil Bullock]

How about a class 17 running to Swindon! RTC 1972....

 

Otherwise Sheffield area , North East and North west, and main area Scotland

[Standby]

Rule 1, I had to look that up. I'll be sticking to that rule.

[tomparryharry]

Welcome to RMWeb.  If I may suggest that you already seem to have a general idea of what you would like to do, to achieve , to 'feel good with it'.  Sit back, relax, and have a look at some of the layouts on here. Or, just certain parts of an individual place that catches your eye. After a while, you will filter out (or, filter in ) what appeals to you. 

 

Never, ever, be afraid to ask!  You might think they are 'dumb' questions, but to the next fellow, they may be deadly serious.  After a while, you will hopefully follow to actual specifics. An example might be:- "I'd like that item, but in this colour".  An idea might be a flow chart. Run down the flow chart until you arrive at what you would like.  

 

Rule1-A... have fun!

 

Best wishes,

Ian.

[KingEdwardII]

5 hours ago, Chimer said:

you will probably come to want to avoid seeing models representing different eras and/or locations clashing,

Unless, like me, you are modelling a preserved line - in which case, the more different eras you can acquire, the better!!  

 

No such thing as a clash on a preserved line...

 

Yours,  Mike.

[Standby]

1 hour ago, KingEdwardII said:

Unless, like me, you are modelling a preserved line - in which case, the more different eras you can acquire, the better!!  

I am considering this as well. Certainly a good excuse to run what I like.

[rob D2]

I actually wouldn’t get any Hornby railroad to dip your toe. Personally it’d be more off putting than anything and you’d want to upgrade in a short space of time.

 

Railroad use models from the defunct Italian Lima range which ran from the 70s until about 2006- they’ve had a slightly better motor put in but are still poor . If you have the cash go for better.

 

I agree with Wireys comments - one thing with the 08 ( I’ve had both Bachmann and Hornby ) is that the Hornby is slightly better detailed but is delicate . I actually got rid of mine as my shunter has to be picked up a lot and Bachmann has less fine detail.

 

What I will say is , whatever class of loco, you are looking at - do some research or ask on here as there are numerous incarnations of some.

 

class 25 anyone ? I’m not an expert , but there was a Hornby 1970s one, a 2000s Bachmann one with poor shape, ( new one being designed ), a Heljan one ( current ) and an expensive top for the range SLW version is also coming..........so there is potential to get the wrong one , or think you are  getting a better one when you aren’t.

 

happy modelling !

Edited May 28, 2021 by rob D2