Highworth Branch

[dibber25]

Stratton station (Chris Leigh)

1658 at Highworth (R.C. Riley/CJL collection)

[CME and Bottlewasher]

6 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

Stratton station (Chris Leigh)

1658 at Highworth (R.C. Riley/CJL collection)

The second photo is charming! The first - albeit interesting - is the beginning of the end.

Edited May 25, 2021 by CME and Bottlewasher

[t-b-g]

Having my interest aroused I had a look on the web and found this. If correct, it suggests that some of the branch moved from one engine in steam a bit earlier than previously suggested, with the ability to work to the military facility while a train was out on the branch.

 

http://www.highworth.freeuk.com/history.htm

[KeithMacdonald]

1 hour ago, Fat Controller said:

It's an 03- I can't remember seeing any Drewerys with 'flower-pot' exhausts, and I don't think the WR had any 04s allocated.

 

 

Looks like we'd need a RTR Class 03 shunter in BR green with wasp stripes and that 'flowerpot' exhaust - does such a thing exist?

[CME and Bottlewasher]

44 minutes ago, CME and Bottlewasher said:

I forgot to mention that a few weeks back on "Secrets of the Transport Museum", there was a Fire Tender that had once been at South Marston

 

https://www.brooklandsmuseum.com/explore/our-collection/airfield-vehicles/merryweather-firecrash-tender

 

My father was often made to fly from South Marston in his boss' Piper Twin Comanche.

 

The diesel locos were all WR 03s ('Sugar Puffs'), and the coaches were, iirc, a B-Set with modified vents/roofs to cater for the low road over bridges/line loading gauge. These were basically workman's trains for BR WR employees from Highworth, heading 'inside'.

Further research states that 08s were seen working to the Vickers SM Branch - and indeed they were seen at Coppers etc. According to Heathcliffe and Smith "....Class 08 diesel electric No. D4112 passes Stratton on it's return from the Vickers works with one van on 16th April 1964".

 

According to the following link D4112 was a 09 (I'll have to dig deeper).

 

http://www.elrdiesel.info/fleet-09024.php

 

It could be one of the few converted from an 08 to an 09 loco I guess.

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

1 minute ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Looks like we'd need a RTR Class 03 shunter in BR green with wasp stripes and that 'flowerpot' exhaust - does such a thing exist?

I've two in 7mm, I need to finish one and add WR lantern irons to the other. Hopefully I can number one to be a model of a HB loco, the other is a Swindon works loco too.

[Pacific231G]

22 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

Some more maps, showing detail of the nitrate works and the Vickers branch.

The one of the Vckers branch is interesting. Nothing the other side of the road of course but if you look carefully on the western side there are two hedges marked which have obviously replaced the bridge parapets on that side. I wonder what the internal railway layout was at the Vickers factory (Unless it was something obviously there like the Devonport dockyard which was just a blank space,  I think the OS just  used the survey from before such  sensitive  developments happened. The RNAD at Dean Hill was  like that until fairly recently when it closed.)     

2 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Thanks for the correction.

 

The Highworth Historical Society has a picture of the branch's timetable. It looks like trains were so infrequent that there were never two trains on the branch at the same time, and no passing loop was ever needed?

 

http://highworthhistoricalsociety.org.uk/galleries/nggallery/photograph-galleries/railway-photographs/page/2#gallery/48772dccbe5d1937fdf2f09c10cc1c61/714

 

This one from 1962 is interesting for modellers. It looks like one of the last Swindon Workers trains.

 

http://highworthhistoricalsociety.org.uk/galleries/nggallery/photograph-galleries/railway-photographs/page/1#gallery/48772dccbe5d1937fdf2f09c10cc1c61/641

 

Is that a Class 03 or a Class 04 shunter?

Looks like it's pulling a couple of suburban coaches. Can anyone tell what kind?

 

Not a correction Keith , I thought it might be that too, though not for passenger trains with no second platform  but  was curious and found the Clark book in my library. 

 

It's curious that the route of what  was  a rather bucolic rural line in the depths of the Wiltshire countryside is now mainly within Swindon's urban area. 

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Most of the track diagrams are in the Wild Swan book "The Highworth Branch" (Smith & Heathcliffe). Iirc another fellow (a neighbour of an old school friend) from Highworth, Bydemill Gardens, was also to write a book on the subject too - not sure if he ever did (I've never seen such).

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, Fat Controller said:

It's an 03- I can't remember seeing any Drewerys with 'flower-pot' exhausts, and I don't think the WR had any 04s allocated.

 

 

D2195 seems to have been a regular. I've also seen a photo of D2143 at Highworth.

The WR had Drewry Class 04s D2200/03/19/35/38/40 in the Worcester/Hereford area from 1964 to 1966 and although D2238 showed evidence of a Swindon Works overhaul during that time it's highly unlikely this one or any of the others ever ventured up the Highworth branch.

 

2 hours ago, CME and Bottlewasher said:

 

The diesel locos were all WR 03s ('Sugar Puffs'), and the coaches were, iirc, a B-Set with modified vents/roofs to cater for the low road over bridges/line loading gauge. These were basically workman's trains for BR WR employees from Highworth, heading 'inside'.

 

 

I don't think the coaches in the photo are a B-Set as they should be identical and I don't see a guard's compartment on the far end of the far one. However I'm not an expert on GWR stock so I'll let somebody who is answer that one!

[clachnaharry]

19 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 Only 4 points but with sidings going both ways, shunting can be most interesting.

 

 

The odd arrangement of the cattle dock/loading bank adjacent to the run round point adds to the operational interest.  The loco of any arriving train would have to propel any vehicle stabled there for unloading there further up the headshunt towards the buffer stop in order to clear the points. It would then have to run around its train and couple this to the displaced wagon to bring it  back along side the dock. There was a trap point situated on the "main" line adjacent to the run round point to protect a passenger train standing at the platform from goods vehicles stabled at the dock, a feature which I believe to be unique in such a situation.

 

The steep gradient on the line approaching Highworth also presented shunting challenges. Smith and Heathcliffe's book states that two guards were required on the Highworth goods trains. The brake van would be detached on the gradient 50 yards from the station, and the junior guard would remain on the van with the handbrake firmly applied to prevent any loose wagons running away down the hill.

 

Once shunting was complete, the long headshunt would have allowed the loco to place the guards van at the rear of the outgoing train standing at the platform, so in effect each goods train would have required the locomotive to run round twice.

 

Lots of play value for 4 points and 2 traps, and with working signals as an added bonus. Its just a shame the layout is so long, thin and curved which makes it less than ideal for modelling. It would require an area of about 10 feet x 8 feet excluding the fiddle yard in 4mm.

Edited May 26, 2021 by clachnaharry

[t-b-g]

3 hours ago, clachnaharry said:

 

The odd arrangement of the cattle dock/loading bank adjacent to the run round point adds to the operational interest.  The loco of any arriving train would have to propel any vehicle stabled there for unloading there further up the headshunt towards the buffer stop in order to clear the points. It would then have to run around its train and couple this to the displaced wagon to bring it  back along side the dock. There was a trap point situated on the "main" line adjacent to the run round point to protect a passenger train standing at the platform from goods vehicles stabled at the dock, a feature which I believe to be unique in such a situation.

 

The steep gradient on the line approaching Highworth also presented shunting challenges. Smith and Heathcliffe's book states that two guards were required on the Highworth goods trains. The brake van would be detached on the gradient 50 yards from the station, and the junior guard would remain on the van with the handbrake firmly applied to prevent any loose wagons running away down the hill.

 

Once shunting was complete, the long headshunt would have allowed the loco to place the guards van at the rear of the outgoing train standing at the platform, so in effect each goods train would have required the locomotive to run round twice.

 

Lots of play value for 4 points and 2 traps, and with working signals as an added bonus. Its just a shame the layout is so long, thin and curved which makes it less than ideal for modelling. It would require an area of about 10 feet x 8 feet excluding the fiddle yard in 4mm.

 

That sort of shunting is right up my street!

 

This is where my approach to the hobby pays off. I would use the track plan, so retaining the interesting shunting and operation but I wouldn't call it Highworth and I wouldn't build it to the scale size. If you lose the curve, you could easily model that trackplan in around 8ft x 1ft and a 3ft fiddle yard.

 

Mine would be an obscure GCR branch in the wilds of Lincolnshire, perhaps a fictional branch off  the North Lindsey Light Railway. Or perhaps somewhere like Teversal Station on the old GNR, a tiny passenger station and yard surrounded by collieries, with slag heaps on the background, with lots of workman train services rather like the real Highworth. You could use the run round loop to bring in empties from the main line and swap them for full coal wagons trip worked from the collieries, with lots of swapping around of brake vans.

 

http://www.dawgates.co.uk/album/tev.htm#E

 

Edited to add link for those not familiar with Teversal. It was/is the middle of nowhere.

 

The combination of reality and imagination is something I have always enjoyed far more than an accurate model of a real place.

 

As it happens, I have two spare 4ft x 1ft boards and I have been plotting a small exhibition layout!

 

I must stop giving myself crazy ideas as I have two layouts started already plus a big one to look after.

Edited May 26, 2021 by t-b-g
to add link

[37114]

Interesting thread. The full extent of the branch was long closed before I was born but I do have a tenuous connection with the branch in that I led the first stage of the project to build the 2nd building to the B&Q Distribution centre which was built alongside the branch. As part of the project we put in an internal road over part of the branch for shunting trailers between the 1st and 2nd buildings so even today the branch sees use by shunters (albeit badged "Terberg" rather than "Drewery"). At the time appropriate checks were made as part of the planning process to ensure there was no protection of the trackbed for future reinstatement but the A419 and other developments closer to Swindon has long put pay to that but the link road as it stands is at trackbed level in case a level crossing was ever required.

[KeithMacdonald]

12 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

The one of the Vckers branch is interesting. Nothing the other side of the road of course but if you look carefully on the western side there are two hedges marked which have obviously replaced the bridge parapets on that side.

 

Yes, and the 1:25,000 version of the map does show the bridge with the railway disappearing into/under it. With "nothing to see here" where the Vickers factory was. 

 

A friend who worked for the OS once told me it was perfectly normal for the OS maps not to show anything at all inside a military site. It was also normal for them to (a) to be told a location was a military site (so there would be white space on the map) but also (b) nobody told them when it stopped being a military site, so versions of OS maps could continue to show white space for years or even decades.

 

[KeithMacdonald]

Gather round chaps! Here's one version of the 1:25,000 map that partly escaped the "white space" artists.  Showing the branch going into the site, and some buildings, but still not revealing the full aircraft works and runways.

 

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=51.60125&lon=-1.74323&layers=219&b=1

[CME and Bottlewasher]

On 26/05/2021 at 02:07, Neil Phillips said:

 

D2195 seems to have been a regular. I've also seen a photo of D2143 at Highworth.

The WR had Drewry Class 04s D2200/03/19/35/38/40 in the Worcester/Hereford area from 1964 to 1966 and although D2238 showed evidence of a Swindon Works overhaul during that time it's highly unlikely this one or any of the others ever ventured up the Highworth branch.

 

 

I don't think the coaches in the photo are a B-Set as they should be identical and I don't see a guard's compartment on the far end of the far one. However I'm not an expert on GWR stock so I'll let somebody who is answer that one!

Modified B Set Lot 1608 etc - modified roofs and ventilators etc. in accordance with the Wild Swan Highworth Branch publication. Also modified Brake Composite (6830/31), Third (1237/38) and Brake Third (1239/40) etc. And I've seen Brake Composites W6831W and W1238W, behind Sugar Puff D2195 circa June 1962.

 

Prior it was Holden pattern 4 wheelers etc.

 

All due to weak, light loading, low road over bridges and light railway considerations such as loading gauge/cost etc.

 

 

That's seems about right from what I can gather.

 

As previously mentioned, the short lived 'Highworth Model Club', of which I was a founder member, built a OO model of Highworth station. I don't know what happened to it in the end, it may have been under the ownership/custodianship of our friendly local Rev. Several of the fellows broke off to form their own splinter group.

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

3 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Yes, and the 1:25,000 version of the map does show the bridge with the railway disappearing into/under it. With "nothing to see here" where the Vickers factory was. 

 

A friend who worked for the OS once told me it was perfectly normal for the OS maps not to show anything at all inside a military site. It was also normal for them to (a) to be told a location was a military site (so there would be white space on the map) but also (b) nobody told them when it stopped being a military site, so versions of OS maps could continue to show white space for years or even decades.

 

I suspect Keith, that positive and negative vetting played it's part in that too. Around Highworth and Swindon as well as known military bases, there was all the cold war hidden in plain site places, such as farms with landing strips suitable for RAF transports etc. 

Edited May 26, 2021 by CME and Bottlewasher

[CME and Bottlewasher]

3 hours ago, 37114 said:

Interesting thread. The full extent of the branch was long closed before I was born but I do have a tenuous connection with the branch in that I led the first stage of the project to build the 2nd building to the B&Q Distribution centre which was built alongside the branch. As part of the project we put in an internal road over part of the branch for shunting trailers between the 1st and 2nd buildings so even today the branch sees use by shunters (albeit badged "Terberg" rather than "Drewery"). At the time appropriate checks were made as part of the planning process to ensure there was no protection of the trackbed for future reinstatement but the A419 and other developments closer to Swindon has long put pay to that but the link road as it stands is at trackbed level in case a level crossing was ever required.

I wasn't aware that SBC bothered with planning permission - the heritage of the area is, at best, a tertiary consideration. Last I heard - after palms are greased - contracted out planning/regulatory officers from Hull 'over see' works in and around Swindon, Highworth et al (probably from Google Earth). Knowing some local builders who've worked for SBC there's lots more I could say about the matter. Suffice to say the days of the once powerful and honourable HRDC (Highworth Rural & District Council) and Stratton Council are long since over and it shows! HRDC used to manage parts of Stratton and Swinedown. Stratton station was probably the busiest on the line. 

 

Highworth was the key town in the area, a market town, then the plague scared everyone away from market towns. Years later the railway came to Swinedown (pig farm on a marsh) and the rest is history. 

 

Heritage, continuous improvement, success are all secondary to greased palms in these parts - defeat always seems to be snatched from the jaws of victory.

 

There's also been a whitewash of the inquiry - during the pandemic - of the banana republic that Highworth has now become.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2021 by CME and Bottlewasher

[KeithMacdonald]

10 hours ago, clachnaharry said:

The steep gradient on the line approaching Highworth also presented shunting challenges. Smith and Heathcliffe's book states that two guards were required on the Highworth goods trains.

 

Looking at the map, I wondered why? It looks like folks were determined to have the station as near as possible to the town centre. If they had put it on the north side of town, down the hill, the steep gradient would have been avoided. And then the line would have been nicely positioned to carry onto Lechlade and/or Coleshill and/or Farringdon.

 

[CME and Bottlewasher]

1 hour ago, KeithMacdonald said:

 

Looking at the map, I wondered why? It looks like folks were determined to have the station as near as possible to the town centre. If they had put it on the north side of town, down the hill, the steep gradient would have been avoided. And then the line would have been nicely positioned to carry onto Lechlade and/or Coleshill and/or Farringdon.

 

All down to costs and shoestring light railways. Lots of schemes in the area were intended to link up (but ran out of funds). For many years the station wasn't all that close to the town - a couple of fields away in reality, but not as bad as Hannington.

[Pacific231G]

11 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

Gather round chaps! Here's one version of the 1:25,000 map that partly escaped the "white space" artists.  Showing the branch going into the site, and some buildings, but still not revealing the full aircraft works and runways.

 

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=51.60125&lon=-1.74323&layers=219&b=1

Well discovered Keith. I went through the NLS and found nothing but hadn't realised what the 1:25.000 outline maps showed.  Sounds like the fact that there was a factory there wasn't secret but the airfield still was. All those footpaths  must have been a great disappointment to any ramblers in the area (footpaths crossing runways are not that unusual at smaller aerodromes but not "Government" aerodromes, i.e military and research establishment)

[KeithMacdonald]

A look at the other railway lines in the area gives us an excuse to wonder what-might-have-been, or invent our own extra branch lines.

 

 

Option 1:

Due north from Highworth across fairly flat land, to join the Fairford branch at Lechlade.

 

Option 2:

Eastwards, to Faringdon, via Coleshill

http://www.faringdon.org/railway-station.html

 

Proposal to reopen Faringdon station

http://www.faringdon.org/uploads/1/4/7/6/14765418/faringdon_advanced_broadgauge_railwayvision_statement_2005.pdf

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Option 2, as @CME and Bottlewasher will be able to evidence, has lots of opportunity for "strange" railway trains, with all kinds of unusual traffic and strange people that disappeared at Coleshill.

 

If there are any Film Producers in the audience, I would encourage them to consider an "LD" film script. A bit on the lines of "Dad's Army - the fathers of the SAS". 

 

All rights reserved, copyright © @CME and Bottlewasher 2021.

We can have walk-on parts (a la Hitchcock) and organise the transport.

 

[CME and Bottlewasher]

13 hours ago, KeithMacdonald said:

A look at the other railway lines in the area gives us an excuse to wonder what-might-have-been, or invent our own extra branch lines.

 

 

Option 1:

Due north from Highworth across fairly flat land, to join the Fairford branch at Lechlade.

 

Option 2:

Eastwards, to Faringdon, via Coleshill

http://www.faringdon.org/railway-station.html

 

Proposal to reopen Faringdon station

http://www.faringdon.org/uploads/1/4/7/6/14765418/faringdon_advanced_broadgauge_railwayvision_statement_2005.pdf

 

Any other suggestions?

 

Option 2, as @CME and Bottlewasher will be able to evidence, has lots of opportunity for "strange" railway trains, with all kinds of unusual traffic and strange people that disappeared at Coleshill.

 

If there are any Film Producers in the audience, I would encourage them to consider an "LD" film script. A bit on the lines of "Dad's Army - the fathers of the SAS". 

 

All rights reserved, copyright © @CME and Bottlewasher 2021.

We can have walk-on parts (a la Hitchcock) and organise the transport.

 

Sounds good to me Keith - will I get a

Winnebago, or can I have an artic based 'trailer' with auto wall extensions?

 

I'm guessing that Coleshill station would have to be some way from the village - due to terrain. Similar issues to Highworth in fact. Also members of the Last Ditch ended up at Highworth Post Office (later the Drs surgery, estate agents, now a vet's - or is it an opticians?). The post war PO closed a couple of years back with the new PO now being in the COOP supermarket. When the LD candidates arrived they were - IIRC - blind folded and taken around the houses to Coleshill (HQ).

 

IIRC the EGR was to link up with the M&SWJR - I'd have to dig out some eosteric notes/books, but I've a feeling that your proposal was also discussed too.

 

The company my father worked for - a plant hire company - supplied the plant to demolish Farringdon station/rly (except for the old station building which was, when I was younger, a salvage reclamation yard, iirc). An attractive and unusual double pitched roofed building. Nearby a new trading estate and plant hire company was created (all owned by said plant hire company boss) dad was head hunted to create such and to get the new plant hire company underway 'for a year as I want to set up my own business', dad stayed 18 months - 2 years in the end. Later he considered buying the area/buildings at Shrivenham Station - one of which is modelled at Pendon - as his businesses grew.

 

As an aside I've often thought that the S&CR railway could meet up with a reopened Tetbury branch. Sadly the S&CR when young - like it's members back then - didn't put enough effort into track laying, their emphasis was on loco collection/restoration. They've restored some fine machines there - very well restored - only for them to be loaned or outbased elsewhere, instead of being used as a crowd puller to the S&CRS. Last time I looked/visited there were very few youngsters there. Most of the bridge abutments etc are still in place on the Tetbury branch (they still have mileage and chain markings on them - I was made to check and survey them circa 1995 and judging by the markings, they still are checked/surveyed).

 

[DLT]

An interesting anomaly about the Highworth branch is the Cricklade Road level crossing.

There was a keepers hut there, and the few photos I've seen of it show it as a timber framed structure with brick infill, similar to the buildings on the Culm Valley and Southwold lines (all three routes engineered by Arthur Paine)  Whereas all other buildings on the branch were timber boarded.

http://highworthhistoricalsociety.org.uk/galleries/nggallery/photograph-galleries/railway-photographs/page/2#gallery/48772dccbe5d1937fdf2f09c10cc1c61/657

Can anyone think of a reason for this?  Was it possibly a replacement structure?  If so it would date from very early as (a) The GWR would not have rebuilt it in similar style, and (b) the crossing was un-manned after 1928

 

Thanks, Dave.

[KeithMacdonald]

3 hours ago, DLT said:

An interesting anomaly about the Highworth branch is the Cricklade Road level crossing.

 

Sorry, I've no idea why it was a timber framed structure with brick infill.

 

The crossing was said to be haunted! (Ooo-err).

http://highworthhistoricalsociety.org.uk/2020/01/30/haunted-level-crossing-of-cricklade-road/

 

Downloading scenery for MSTS, including the Cricklade Road crossing, here:

http://www.highworth.freeuk.com/mstsscenery.htm

 

Along with interesting articles on the traffic on the branch

http://www.highworth.freeuk.com/traffic.htm

[CME and Bottlewasher]

On 28/05/2021 at 14:29, DLT said:

An interesting anomaly about the Highworth branch is the Cricklade Road level crossing.

There was a keepers hut there, and the few photos I've seen of it show it as a timber framed structure with brick infill, similar to the buildings on the Culm Valley and Southwold lines (all three routes engineered by Arthur Paine)  Whereas all other buildings on the branch were timber boarded.

http://highworthhistoricalsociety.org.uk/galleries/nggallery/photograph-galleries/railway-photographs/page/2#gallery/48772dccbe5d1937fdf2f09c10cc1c61/657

Can anyone think of a reason for this?  Was it possibly a replacement structure?  If so it would date from very early as (a) The GWR would not have rebuilt it in similar style, and (b) the crossing was un-manned after 1928

 

Thanks, Dave.

It's a very interesting one Dave, I've, sadly, no clue. I wonder if crossing gate paraphernalia was kept in there? You're correct in saying 'Cricklade Rd', locals often call it, incorrectly, Blunsdon Rd.

 

I well remember my father, telling me, that his boss (a Highworth agricultural engineer) did not believe him for being late (Dad's never late!), Dad's reason/excuse being a de-railed loco at Cricklade Rd crossing one morning. Dad was put on a warning. His boss later found out he was telling the truth - he didn't remove the warning lol, even though he really liked dad!

 

As Keith states there's ghost stories about that area. From memory of avidly researching the line some 40 years ago, such stems from the runaway incident thereabouts.

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by CME and Bottlewasher