Hornby model shop Tiers system

[woodenhead]

36 minutes ago, Kris said:

It sounds more like they are trying to protect a brand image - They don't want Hornby to be associated with untidiness and unhelpfulness. 

I can't help but feel it is a very subjective element to the agreement, if Hornby don't feel you are right for their product, down the tiers you go.

 

 

[GWR-fan]

How long will it be before "successful",  i.e., compliant tier 1 retailers are invited to join an elite band of premium retailers who will be given premium access to new items,  preferred retailer status for pre-order allocations and preferential discounts for meeting key performance achievements.  What of the smaller retailer who cannot compete with those "successful" dealers,  will they have their tier grading under threat?  Hornby tried their boutique high street retail network some years ago and from memory all of those elite sites have vanished from the trade. 

 

 

[phil-b259]

6 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Hornby seem to think is the future of railway modelling.

 

Mike.

 

Thats being too generous - Hornbys no.1 concern is not the 'future of model railway' per say - its the ability to shift products as close to RRP as possible with the greatest profit margins.

 

Given their financial position and the need to continue the return to profitability they don't have the luxury of being able to worry about the entire retail chain.

 

Despite the fluffy words Hornby is no different to Tesco, M&S, Screwfix, etc all of whose primary duty is to maximise shareholder value. Yes a company may loudly trumpet its involvement in 'the community', in good works, how they save customers money, etc, etc but ultimately thats not what keeps the business going.

 

There is of course a danger that the strategy adopted might backfire - and were it anyone else in the model railway that might be more of a worry. With the sheer power / consumer recognition of the Hornby brand however the risk is less as providing the right products are bought to market people will still seek them out.

 

Ultimately time will tell if this new strategy works (and by that i mean increases profits and sales) for the Hornby group. If it doesn't then either a slackening of the 'tiers' to roll back the changes will take place or more radical measures like cutting retailers out of the loop and going solely for direct sales will be tried.

 

Money talks as the saying goes.....

[Legend]

16 minutes ago, Kris said:

It sounds more like they are trying to protect a brand image - They don't want Hornby to be associated with untidiness and unhelpfulness. 

 

But they don't seem to be too concerned cancelling orders and hacking off the end customer .   

 

How patronising " clean and well laid out store"  Tier 1 , " poorly laid out , untidy and consequently uninviting " Tier 3  . Wouldn't we as customers be best placed to determine that and literally vote with our feet ?  I'm sorry I really don't see that as Hornbys affair and very little  to do with protecting the brand .  Feels like something cobbled together. I want to order through my preferred retailers Hattons and Rails . Can't do it.  

 

"Provide help and guidance to customers". Actually I found Hattons and Rails  give the best help and guidance . Hattons used to do very effective YouTube videos , pretty good at promoting Hornby . Ironically think back to Jan 5th 2021 range launch.  And  faced with Hornbys indifferent quality , both Rails and Hattons replace without question . 

 

No mention of stock still available to order direct from Hornby at full RRP or selling through Amazon . Neatly avoided.

 

"Restrict manufacture of several new items so that our vendors can focus on efficiencies " . Yeah right !  This is a company that desperately needs to increase sales , make margin and repay loans .

 

To me its as simple as they don't have, or failed to secure, enough manufacturing capacity to support their 2021 and 2020 ranges . That's the critical failure here , which is compounded by a poorly executed attempt to ration models , not according to customer preferences. 

[APOLLO]

44 minutes ago, Kris said:

It sounds more like they are trying to protect a brand image - They don't want Hornby to be associated with untidiness and unhelpfulness. 

 

The Hornby "brand image" died many years ago when Tri-ang merged with / took them over. Tri-ang Hornby then just Hornby. Look at Bassett Lowke also and the meaningless cheap tat there now.

 

Brit15

[Downer]

Cynical and unconvincing.

[Winter123]

So it looks like Hatton's have missed out on The Champion's League then...

[Nick C]

Apart from the obvious dig at Hattons and the like, the rest of this is showing that Hornby have actually been thinking about what the bulk of their target market actually need - and remember, we are only a small part of their market - most of it comes from the trainset/Airfix kit/toy market - and for those buyers, customer service is vital - grandad has bought little Johnny a train set for Christmas, mum who knows nothing about trains wants to get some accessories to go with it, they need someone who can help them to choose something appropriate and compatible, which online-only retailers certainly can't. They're also the kind of people who are going to be swayed by things like a neat, well laid out shop - while rummaging through piles of stuff in a rabbit warren might be great for us, it doesn't tend go down well with 'normal' folk.

[phil-b259]

15 minutes ago, Brian Indge said:

 

This is another example of not having your own production facility.

 

13 minutes ago, CUCKOO LINE said:

and infexibility and possible long lead times in your supply chain

 

Which are simply not going to change!

 

The basics haven't changed Manufacturing in UK / Europe / the developed world is expensive - particularly things which require lots of hand finishing / assembly.

 

No sane company is going to bring mass RTR production back from China for financial reasons - while the laws the Communist party of China impose in their country mean foreign ownership of factories is not permitted (the best you can do is enter a 'partnership' with a Chinese company).

 

 

[GWR-fan]

4 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

.......................................................

To me its as simple as they don't have, or failed to secure, enough manufacturing capacity to support their 2021 and 2020 ranges . That's the critical failure here , which is compounded by a poorly executed attempt to ration models , not according to customer preferences. 

 

As one manufacturer who relatively recently vacated the hobby leaving a host of unfilled orders and promises,  when dealing with Chinese manufacturers one must show respect for them.  Think of biting the hand that feeds you and then think why has production been severely curtailed.   

[Legend]

4 minutes ago, Winter123 said:

So it looks like Hatton's have missed out on The Champion's League then...

 Vauxhall conference if that still exists !

 

I mean its really incredible . Hattons have phone lines and advisors to offer "help and guidance".  What "help and guidance" will you get at John Lewis Edinburgh ?  Protect the brand ? Might be better changing the management. 

 

 

[HillsideDepot]

Just been looking at my railway room - Tier 2 and in danger of relegation, I think! It's probably best that my Express Dairies Ruston, which arrived yesterday, hasn't been allowed out to play yet.

Seriously though, I think I can see what Hornby are trying to do, but the implementation has been poor (twice), and I think they are trying to hide the problem rather than addressing it (or, possibly, even recognising it).

Thanks to @Phil Parker for getting the info, even if we, perhaps, don't like what Hornby say. 

[t-b-g]

I have some sympathy with Hornby.

 

They have had a torrid time financially over the last few years. Whose fault or who is to blame is really not relevant. It was lots of different factors. They really struggled. They are dragging themselves back up now.

 

The world of retailing has changed and direct access from customer to manufacturer is possible in a way that it wasn't before.

 

So if there are two "warehouse/internet" type set ups, one direct from Hornby where the full price goes to them or the second where they sell at trade prices to a 3rd party who then sells it on, I cannot see why Hornby should forsake a big chunk of the price to another business that just shifts it on to the customer with a mark up when they can sell direct from their own website. Some of these warehouse/internet businesses have tried to cut Hornby's share out by commissioning their own models direct from the factory. Are Hornby supposed to just sit back and let them make full profits from selling their own models plus make money selling Hornby products, while they are also probably taking some of Hornby's manufacturing slots at the factories?

 

I am not too sure that I like their criteria very much but I can see what they are trying to do and I can see why they are trying to go down that route. The big warehouse/internet firms have played their part in the decline of the local model shops by being able to undercut their prices due to lower overheads. I see this move from Hornby as trying to redress that balance. 

[adb968008]

39 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Hmm, not so sure that is the primary driver. Its bit like a bank who goes round closing branches but also promises to invest loads in the ones which stay open. Great for some but not so good for those who find say limited public transport options prevent them from being able to get to those centres of excellence the bank is keeping open.

 

Still, tis the way of the world these days and I don't blame business from looking to protect itself from the massive changes the internet has caused....

Branches of banks are owned by the Banks themselves.

 

I see this shrinking Hornby's retail network further.

 

The prognosis for a Tier 3 isnt good, if all they get is the dregs no one wants.

Should a shop drop from Tier 1 to Tier 2, they will presumably lose much ability to pre-sale, thats a premier league relegation.

 

it also poses a significant barrier to entry for the market, any new retailer will need to invest a significantly higher amount to gain Tier 3 status...isnt this how cartels are formed.?
 

That leaves Hornby.com battling it out online with its Tier 1’s, and increasingly Amazon.

 

I can certainly think of 4 Tier1 shops which manufacturer rtr, whats the criteria for competing with Hornby.

 

Edited May 25, 2021 by adb968008

[phil-b259]

7 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

The Hornby "brand image" died many years ago when Tri-ang merged with / took them over. Tri-ang Hornby then just Hornby. Look at Bassett Lowke also and the meaningless cheap tat there now.

 

Brit15

 

You are misunderstanding what is meant by 'brand image'

 

We are not talking about what the name means to model railway hobbyists - they are talking about brand image with (1) the wider public and (2) the financial world - both of whom generally know sod all about the twists and turns of model railways history!

 

What Hornby want is their brand to be seen in a similar way as John Lewis, Screwfix, Ikea etc - a leader in their sector (that is provision of toys for kids and detailed models for the adult collector).

[Kris]

13 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

The Hornby "brand image" died many years ago when Tri-ang merged with / took them over. Tri-ang Hornby then just Hornby. Look at Bassett Lowke also and the meaningless cheap tat there now.

 

Brit15

With a small minority of people (mostly older modellers) maybe, but to the vast majority of people in the UK Hornby still means model trains. 

[phil-b259]

1 minute ago, adb968008 said:

Branches of banks are owned by the Banks themselves.

 

I see this shrinking Hornby's retail network further.

 

 

Although that is true and the mechanics will be different, I believe the thrust of my observation is sound.

 

In both cases, as seen from a customer perspective, the number of outlets where goods / services can be purchased has been reduced.

 

In both cases that has been said to not be an issue by the organisation making the changes.

[PhilH]

All well and good assuming that all of Hornby's products through all of their ranges sell well but do not Tier 1 shops run the risk of being left with stocks of Hornby group products which don't sell so well but which they have basically been forced to take?

[spikey]

57 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Personally I'm far more interested in how friendly / knowledgeable / helpful a retailer is ...

 

And conversely, that's of no consequence whatsoever to me.  What matters far more is do they have the item I want in stock at a price I'm prepared to pay.

[Miss Prism]

If Hornby can't get enough stuff manufactured, presumably other suppliers are similarly affected?
 

[Kris]

3 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

If Hornby can't get enough stuff manufactured, presumably other suppliers are similarly affected?
 

Bachmann have been saying that they can't get slots to manufacture all of their promised items for several years now. 

[ruggedpeak]

26 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

What Hornby want is their brand to be seen in a similar way as John Lewis, Screwfix, Ikea etc - a leader in their sector (that is provision of toys for kids and detailed models for the adult collector).

To achieve that requires collosal investment in the brand. Who is paying for that? Probably Tier 1 retailers will be asked to contribute/invest whether they like it or not. And Hornby tying themselves to Amazon, John Lewis etc? Who has the power in those commercial relationships?

 

They tried the brand nonsense last time, it didn't work. I literally have the T shirt and the playing cards to prove it!! Will it work this time? My guess is not as it is a model company and is recognised for models. The 'brand' will not transcend this like say Coca Cola transcended being a sugar filled fizzy drink.

 

Lego almost went bust trying the same thing, and they are a tad bigger than Hornby.

[Fireline]

While I can understand Hornby's being less than supportive of shops that are trying to compete with them as manufacturers too, I can't help but feel that no-one at Hornby talked to an actual modeller before this decision was made. Am I the only one that delights in those poorly laid out shops, with items all over the place, that invariably yield the gems you've been looking for for ages, but never been able to get? Those shops usually have the most knowledgeable owners and staff, too....

[G-BOAF]

Hmm, a bit of a blow for heritage railways and preservation stockists, who certainly won't be stocking Scalextric and most likely not a full range of airfix. How many recent models have relied upon measurements from those very heritage facilities....

[Legend]

2 minutes ago, Kris said:

Bachmann have been saying that they can't get slots to manufacture all of their promised items for several years now. 

But Bachmann deal specifically with Kader , up until their EFE brand which uses other factories .  So thats a different issue from Hornby who use several factories . Who knows we are seeing the erratic customer side of Hornby , maybe the securing manufacturing capacity is equally erratic , disfunctional