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Hornby model shop Tiers system


Phil Parker
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13 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

 

As I understand it Rapido operate on a totally different business model in that customers have to pre-order and ONLY when a certain threshold has been reached does production happen. Even then there will be a cut off - if you haven't pre-ordered before such and such a date then you will find it hard to get hold of them as the exact amount Rapido order from the factory is basically the number of pre-orders they have received.

 

All very different from Hornbys model which basically involves placing an from the factory for a specific number of models before the customer even knows the model is going to be made.

 

Rapido are only just moving to making stock - if Hornby went this way, then there would be no stock for the shelves of model shops. Which, bearing in mind this thread, would solve all of the problems. No Tiers and just direct sales. No train sets in the shops for newcomers in the hobby, which would mean it would gradually die out. Happy days!

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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Apart from those who told me they just couldn't get X, y and z for a while - I'm thinking certain accessories.

 

That certainly hit the buffers from memory? Difficult to track certain items? 

Edited by Widnes Model Centre
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5 minutes ago, Islesy said:

All that was left in my draw were some old Extra Strong Mints, a couple of TTS Decoders and a list of potential new models…

Ooh , so that's where the 'Titfield Thunderbolt' came from -  complete with an aroma of old moth balls Extra Strong Mints and a TTS decoder. :jester:

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16 minutes ago, Islesy said:

All that was left in my draw were some old Extra Strong Mints, a couple of TTS Decoders and a list of potential new models…

 

Which TTS decoders? I'm after a Class 20 one, and might have to raid your old office.....

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10 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Rapido are only just moving to making stock - if Hornby went this way, then there would be no stock for the shelves of model shops. Which, bearing in mind this thread, would solve all of the problems. No Tiers and just direct sales. No train sets in the shops for newcomers in the hobby, which would mean it would gradually die out. Happy days!

But if the contents of their newsletters always apply to whatever they announce Rapido have long been selling to retailers should the latter care to place an order.  Doesn't guarantee the item will be made, doesn't mean the retailer will actually invest in holding stock beyond meeting their own pre-orders but it does mean retailers could order stock.  So rather neatly it avoids Rapido holding stock themselves.   But to work that way needs careful approval and quality control procedures to ensure that what is run for each model matches their spec.

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26 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

And that is relevant to model railways how? I think you'll find that the idea some other company is going to ride over the horizon to replace Hornby or anyone else with a range is fantasy. There are newcomers, some who have been around for longer than the 5 years it takes to develop a Trident, and they haven't destroyed anyone like the Japanese bikes destroyed the British motorbike industry.

 

The point you are missing though, is that another poster actually wants those long announcement times. So which one of you is right? You can't both be.

Funny you are not the first person to say that in a particular industry, then a few years later the firm goes "legs up". I think they call it complacency. Personally, if they can't produce it within a year don't put it in the catalogue, but then perhaps I am different. I used to work in software and electronics where a year is an awful long time, plus the fact that if I can't get the latest model it is not the end of the world.

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An hour ago Oliver Cromwell was £132 at Amazon, 7 in stock. I was thinking about it.

 

Now £173.26 with 4 in stock. (Dispatched and sold by Jadlam)

 

No thanks Mr Bezos / Jadlam. 

 

Brit15

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Just now, APOLLO said:

An hour ago Oliver Cromwell was £132 at Amazon, 7 in stock. I was thinking about it.

 

Now £173.26 with 4 in stock. (Dispatched and sold by Jadlam)

 

No thanks Mr Bezos / Jadlam. 

 

Brit15

It was £129 when I looked. Obviously, sold too many so the price goes up. I stopped buying off Jadlam when They did that big price hike on the Hornby Dublo version of Duchess of Atholl on EBay. I suspect it will come down again, I think Hornby are having trouble shifting them.

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11 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said:

Funny you are not the first person to say that in a particular industry, then a few years later the firm goes "legs up". I think they call it complacency. Personally, if they can't produce it within a year don't put it in the catalogue, but then perhaps I am different. I used to work in software and electronics where a year is an awful long time, plus the fact that if I can't get the latest model it is not the end of the world.

 

So, how do you respond to those posters in Bachmann forums now complaining about the 3 monthly announcements and demanding the firm go back to the longer lead times?

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42 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Rapido are only just moving to making stock - if Hornby went this way, then there would be no stock for the shelves of model shops. Which, bearing in mind this thread, would solve all of the problems. No Tiers and just direct sales. No train sets in the shops for newcomers in the hobby, which would mean it would gradually die out. Happy days!

Surely the real issue is when they announce a product they already know how many they,ve got in production so shouldn't,t be rocket science to work out an allocation when people try and order and guarantee within reason that amount. 

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1 minute ago, Phil Parker said:

 

So, how do you respond to those posters in Bachmann forums now complaining about the 3 monthly announcements and demanding the firm go back to the longer lead times?

Obviously they are not me, sadly I am not into "vapour ware". If the article is in a catalogue, I expect to buy it. As I said I am not the norm. Some of the stuff in the Hornby catalogue never sees the light of day especially the electronics stuff. I prefer the 3 monthly announcements, at least you know where you stand. 

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8 minutes ago, CUCKOO LINE said:

Surely the real issue is when they announce a product they already know how many they,ve got in production so shouldn't,t be rocket science to work out an allocation when people try and order and guarantee within reason that amount. 

I think from what I am learning is that they think about making a product, put it in their catalogue. See how many orders they get. Then they decide how many to make looking at breakpoints for production costs. If they don't have enough to meet the market, then tough. Funny though, other than for a few models, there does always seem to be ones around. I think you can still get the Blue Merchant Navy and a lot of the A2.3 models.

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1 hour ago, cbrooks122000 said:

Actually Hornby did that with their Blue Merchant Navy, I waited 3 years for them to deliver. Do you honestly think that if it wasn't model railways that they would get away with it. Go away and read why BSA/Triumph folded in the 70's it was all to do with being late with all their models, giving the Japanese a foothold, which eventually killed the company.  Their Trident was about 5 years late going to production, by which time the Honda 4 had arrived.

What really gave the Japanese the foothold was the British manufacturers giving up on smaller bikes.

 

They all thought that when lads wanted to trade up  from the Honda or Suzuki 250s they learned on, they'd come running back. Even before the magnificent CB750 came along, anybody lucky enough to have ridden a CB450 rapidly realised it could match anything 200cc bigger made in the UK, even if you did need to buy a better set of shocks!

 

By contrast, BSA/Triumph developed a cracking little dohc 350 twin that went like a 500 but could be chucked around like a 250, and didn't drink petrol like a Jaguar (as the fast Jap strokers did if you used the beans) then failed to put it into production. 

 

John:offtopic:sorry

Edited by Dunsignalling
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2 hours ago, AY Mod said:

 

No they're not. No consideration having been exchanged.

 

It depends on the wording of the contract.  Two parties are in a state of contract when consideration and service/supply have been agreed.  Payment of consideration usually comes later.

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1 minute ago, Dunsignalling said:

What really gave the Japanese the foothold was the British manufacturers giving up on smaller bikes.

 

The thought that when lads wanted to trade up  from the Honda or Suzuki 250s they learned on, they'd come running back. Even before the magnificent CB750 came along, anybody lucky enough to have ridden a CB450 rapidly realised it could match anything 200cc bigger made in the UK, even if you did need to buy a better set of shocks!

 

By contrast, BSA/Triumph developed a cracking little dohc 350 twin that went like a 500 and could be chucked around like a 250, and didn't drink petrol like a Jaguar (as the fast Jap strokers did if you used the beans) then failed to put it into production. 

 

John

I think they run out of money, because they were late releasing the new Bonneville, they lost the US market. The Trident was 5 years late, if they had released it in 1966 they would have made some money on it and would have had a lead on the Honda 4. I think there were also lots of issues with the dohc 350. 

 

As to Hornby, I think as they have started making a profit, complacency is setting in. From my point of view they have lost the modern image market, Bachmann make better models. Even Heljan with its latest class 86 has improved. Dapol models are also getting a lot better. So if these manufacturers turn that technology onto their steam locos, Hornby could have an issue. 

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26 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said:

I think from what I am learning is that they think about making a product, put it in their catalogue. See how many orders they get. Then they decide how many to make looking at breakpoints for production costs. If they don't have enough to meet the market, then tough. Funny though, other than for a few models, there does always seem to be ones around. I think you can still get the Blue Merchant Navy and a lot of the A2.3 models.

There does seem an element of worrying too much about what other people are doing and trying to get one over on them than concentrating on their own business plan and sticking to it

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16 minutes ago, cbrooks122000 said:

 

 

As to Hornby, I think as they have started making a profit, complacency is setting in. From my point of view they have lost the modern image market, Bachmann make better models. Even Heljan with its latest class 86 has improved. Dapol models are also getting a lot better. So if these manufacturers turn that technology onto their steam locos, Hornby could have an issue. 

Nah. Hornby are going to knock out a few special editions and make a killing. A Britannia named Canute and an A4 named Ostrich for a start.

Bernard 

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25 minutes ago, Colin_McLeod said:

 

It depends on the wording of the contract.  Two parties are in a state of contract when consideration and service/supply have been agreed.  Payment of consideration usually comes later.

 

Indeed, I am puzzled as to where this concept of money having to have changed hands for a contract to be valid has come from. In my business I have had £100Ks worth of contracts, with penalty clauses etc. that are valid and enforceable long before any money changes hands.


A contract is based on a formal agreement (not necessarily written) between two parties for the exchange of things between the parties - money does not even have to be one of the things.


Roy

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