loksound 5 Unusual double start up, LMB DMU Sounds

[JZjr]

Good morning,

 

I've been scratching my head over a small problem that I have noticed on a couple of legomanbiffo loaded Loksound 5 chips.  The problem doesn't happen with Loksound 4 chips or with locos (56 and 66) but does happen on my 150 & 158.  See the video below: (not sure how to embed videos on here any more).

 

https://youtu.be/5FGU0K5Y09g

 

Once the engine has started, when taking power the engine start-up plays again before it revs up.  I noticed this after remapping some functions so I reset the decoder and found that it still happens.  I have tested this on a Sprog and a Prodigy Advance so I am confident it is to do with the configuration of the decoder rather than the command station.

 

If anyone has any ideas, then I'd be grateful to receive some suggestions.

 

Thanks in advance

Fred.

[giz]

Doesn't that represent the start of the engine in one powercar followed by the start of the engine in the second one?

 

I don't have one of these sound chips but I do have a Realtrack 156 which has a chip in each car and they fire up sequentially.

[Philou]

What @giz said - s'normal. Second engine starts up once on the move - just like the real thing.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

[JZjr]

Thanks for the replies, so it is correct that the second engine will not start at all until movement starts?

 

On the real things, while there is sometimes a delay between engines starting - it's usually less than a second between them.

 

Thanks

[russ p]

On the realising you can't start an engine on the move

When the start button is pressed ALL engines should start roughly at the same time

On the old DMUs there were separate buttons for right and left hand engines 

[cravensdmufan]

As Russ says, "1st generation" DMUs should have two engines fire up with a short pause between each.  Digitrains one is spot on for that.   The driver activates each separately,  The new Legoman one (advertised as for the Class 117/121) needs the throttle to be increased before the second engine fires up.

 

Strangely my Legomanbiffo Class 153 does the same - though the real Class 153 only has one engine!  It may be that's it's a generic  sound project that also covers Classes 150 155 156 and 158 which will have an engine in each car, but there shouldn't be such a long delay.   The 153 is a nice sound, so I can live with it!

 

 

[JZjr]

8 minutes ago, cravensdmufan said:

As Russ says, "1st generation" DMUs should have two engines fire up with a short pause between each.  Digitrains one is spot on for that.   The driver activates each separately,  The new Legoman one (advertised as for the Class 117/121) needs the throttle to be increased before the second engine fires up.

 

Strangely my Legomanbiffo Class 153 does the same - though the real Class 153 only has one engine!  It may be that's it's a generic  sound project that also covers Classes 150 155 156 and 158 which will have an engine in each car, but there shouldn't be such a long delay.   The 153 is a nice sound, so I can live with it!

 

 

That's a little disappointing, I have three 153's to chip along with another three 150's and another 158.  I think I can live with it for the 150/158's but I'm not decided about the 153's.  I might see what is about.  It can be a little difficult to judge a project from a video as it is often recorded with a cheap phone mic.

 

Thanks

Edited May 25, 2021 by JZjr

[pauliebanger]

Are you sure that the second engine only starts after movement begins, or are you just not waiting sufficient time for the second start up to happen automatically?

 

If you are prepared to consider other decoder types, Digitrains Class150 sound project for ZIMO actually prevents the models from moving until all engines have started and are idling.

 

Their Class 153 has only 1 engine start up, like the real thing, but still prevents movement until the model's 'engine' is idling.

 

Both projects have multiple, speed and direction dependent horns, speed dependent detonators and flange squeal and an interlock system so that the models cannot be driven whilst the doors are 'open'. It's also not possible for the doors to be 'opened' whilst the model is moving.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

 

[JZjr]

1 hour ago, pauliebanger said:

Are you sure that the second engine only starts after movement begins, or are you just not waiting sufficient time for the second start up to happen automatically?

 

If you are prepared to consider other decoder types, Digitrains Class150 sound project for ZIMO actually prevents the models from moving until all engines have started and are idling.

 

Their Class 153 has only 1 engine start up, like the real thing, but still prevents movement until the model's 'engine' is idling.

 

Both projects have multiple, speed and direction dependent horns, speed dependent detonators and flange squeal and an interlock system so that the models cannot be driven whilst the doors are 'open'. It's also not possible for the doors to be 'opened' whilst the model is moving.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

 

 

I have waited during testing for plenty of time to check if it happens before moving off if I just leave it.

 

I wouldn't say I am against using Zimo decoders but make full use of the extensive function mapping available with ESU decoders, pairing them with LokPilot FX function decoders to build complex rules around what can happen when.  I have only briefly looked at the programming options on a Zimo (not sure of the model or age) in a 66 that belongs to @JZ and it doesn't seem to have anywhere near the number of options around function control but I am willing to explore newer decoders which are probably more advanced.

 

It does seem a little odd, I spend plenty of time around the real things (well, not 150's or 153's anymore) to know that you can't really notice any delay at all between multiple engines starting unless there is a fault on one vehicle.  It is something I can live with once I get used to it although it isn't something that my 170 does which is also a legomanbiffo project, although on a LokSound 4 rather than a 5.

 

Thanks

[legomanbiffo]

The projects have been designed like that to give the user control over when the second engine starts. Some dmu engines start simultaneously, some require and / or allow the driver to walk round and start the engines separately.

 

So, use F1 as normal to start the first engine. You can then start the second engine at a time of your choosing by one of two methods;

 

1. Briefly open the throttle and close it again, or

 

2. Briefly turn F1 off and then on again.

 

The error with the 153 has since been corrected and it now features a single engine start.

 

Hope this explains things.

 

Bif

[charliepetty]

Hi There.

Re the older Class 153s you have, If you get the decoder too us, a Free reblow will be done to correct that issue, also IF you state which area you a running it in we can offer local announcements: 

 

The range Currently is:

 

Provincial (England)

Provincial (Scotland)

East Midlands Trains (Nottingham Accent)

Great Western / First Great Western (Gloucester Accent)

Great Western / First Great Western (Cornish Accent)

Arriva Trains Wales

Northern (Darlington Accent)

Northern (Newcastle Accent)

 

All these are CV Changable to multiple destinations

 

PPS Dont think Zimo offer anything like this.   Charlie (Legomanbiffo Team)

[russ p]

2 hours ago, legomanbiffo said:

The projects have been designed like that to give the user control over when the second engine starts. Some dmu engines start simultaneously, some require and / or allow the driver to walk round and start the engines separately.

 

So, use F1 as normal to start the first engine. You can then start the second engine at a time of your choosing by one of two methods;

 

1. Briefly open the throttle and close it again, or

 

2. Briefly turn F1 off and then on again.

 

The error with the 153 has since been corrected and it now features a single engine start.

 

Hope this explains things.

 

Bif

 

Hi Bif

On a real unit it is impossible to start engines separately it doesn't matter if its a single car or an eight car mixed consist ,when engine start is pressed all engines start ..... hopefully 

With a single speaker on one car fairly difficult to replicate.  Probably best that there is only the sound off one starting 

[JZjr]

10 hours ago, legomanbiffo said:

The projects have been designed like that to give the user control over when the second engine starts. Some dmu engines start simultaneously, some require and / or allow the driver to walk round and start the engines separately.

 

So, use F1 as normal to start the first engine. You can then start the second engine at a time of your choosing by one of two methods;

 

1. Briefly open the throttle and close it again, or

 

2. Briefly turn F1 off and then on again.

 

The error with the 153 has since been corrected and it now features a single engine start.

 

Hope this explains things.

 

Bif

 

Thanks,  I think it is just a case of getting used to it where they are the first decoders with that feature.  Thanks for clarifying.

[JZjr]

8 hours ago, russ p said:

 

Hi Bif

On a real unit it is impossible to start engines separately it doesn't matter if its a single car or an eight car mixed consist ,when engine start is pressed all engines start ..... hopefully 

With a single speaker on one car fairly difficult to replicate.  Probably best that there is only the sound off one starting 

 

It's definitely possible to start the local engine from outside the unit - I think 166's might even have a start button inside, I can't remember.  It isn't usually done unless there is an engine that won't start remotely.

 

Thanks

[russ p]

12 minutes ago, JZjr said:

 

It's definitely possible to start the local engine from outside the unit - I think 166's might even have a start button inside, I can't remember.  It isn't usually done unless there is an engine that won't start remotely.

 

Thanks

 

Very rarely done though. First generation ones had to be started locally with less 70psi control air but that wasn't always adhered to

[JZ]

19 hours ago, charliepetty said:

 

Great Western / First Great Western (Gloucester Accent)

Great Western / First Great Western (Cornish Accent)

 

And what's wrong with Brizzle of Zummerzet accents?

[JZjr]

On 26/05/2021 at 19:27, JZ said:

And what's wrong with Brizzle of Zummerzet accents?

 

I can't remember hearing any of yours but I can't picture them with much zummerzet zest.  Mine are all in an awful phone voice!

[pheaton]

On 26/05/2021 at 10:35, russ p said:

 

Very rarely done though. First generation ones had to be started locally with less 70psi control air but that wasn't always adhered to

Russ, could you remember what the reason for that was.....its been said the same at our place but I cant for the life of me remember what the reason was...

 

[russ p]

1 hour ago, pheaton said:

Russ, could you remember what the reason for that was.....its been said the same at our place but I cant for the life of me remember what the reason was...

 

 

So that the dog in the final drive is held in mesh and not free to smash its teeth