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Which command station to use with JMRI?


JZjr
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Currently, I use JMRI on my desktop for programming and testing.  Without a layout, I haven't got any other DCC system currently.  I am perfectly comfortable with JMRI and computing/Linux/Python although I haven't spent much time exploring anything beyond the Roster and Throttle as that is all I have needed.

 

With limited space, I am building a hybrid model-railway/train-set for the kids (but mainly me).  As many of my models have Loksound chips and most use functions right up to F28 or above I am looking for a command station that will connect to JMRI with little fiddling that also offers handheld cabs that can switch high function numbers - I know many can only do up to F19 or F20.  The idea being I can teach the kids to use the handheld with the physical buttons being easier than the app (for adults too).  I'm definitely open to mixing and matching components to make the system complete.  Going forwards, I am looking to use accessory decoders for points, and possibly RailCom compatible block detectors.  For signalling and other electronics I may well go down the MQTT route rather than using DCC-based signalling - that way it opens up very cheap control devices using a protocol that (in my experience) is solid and very well tested.

 

While price is a concern, I'd like to keep the table open so I don't miss anything.  Ultimately, I may end up settling for something less that the ideal device if it is too expensive.

 

Thanks

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"Railcom" in that list is your biggest limitation.   Basically that mean European made systems, so that's Lenz, ESU, Digikeijs, Roco, Uhlenbrock, etc..  There are DIY options which can do RailCom.   

Handset, possibly Roco WLAN MultiMaus (the Wireless WLan has functions to F28).  However, if you go for the Roco or Digikeijs command station, then you can mix other vendors handsets; both will work with Roco, Lenz, Digitrax, Uhlenbrock (and probably more) handsets.  

 

DIY would include MERG, which has a very nice handset (there is talk of adding RailCom to the CBUS based systems), and Hans De Loof's systems (Loconet based, so LocoNet handsets).    Don't know if DCC++ (and its variants) have RailCom in them.    

 

 

Can't do RailCom with NCE (fundamental issue over irregular preamble length), and Digitrax has a short-preamble and requires 3rd party add-ons for RailCom.  MRC/Gaugemaster has poor integration with software tools.  

 

 

-  Nigel

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Thanks Nigel,  RailCom may not be a hard requirement but I like the idea of using block detection and knowing what is sitting in that block.  Many of my models are RFID tagged for security anyway - I'm not sure if any of the tags would be readable from underneath but RFID detection could be an option.

 

I have looked further into the Digikeijs and it does look like it could be the best option - price wise it is quite fair, and the ability to mix from a wide range of handsets means I could add a simple LokMaus or similar handset which would be super simple for the kids to use.  Then I could add a more comprehensive handset to give access to a wider variety of functions for my sound unit.

 

As much as I like tinkering and building, I'm not sure if I'd want a DIY style system - I think the Digikeijs may be a good balance between this and a complete, ready-to-use kit.  I have enough to tinker with on my models and computers as it is.

 

Cheers

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  • RMweb Gold

@JZjr a question for you I want to use jmri but not Oracle's JRE - is that possible?  I ask because we have just  announced our own Open Java SDK so I am going to spin that up and if I can get jmri working with my Hornby Elite. If you work in software can we talk?

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12 minutes ago, deepfat said:

use jmri but not Oracle's JRE - is that possible? 

I am using JMRI on a Raspberry Pi 400 and the version of Java installed there is OpenJDK Java 11. So I think it is possible to use JMRI with Java that is not Oracle's.

 

Yours, Mike.

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6 hours ago, JZjr said:

Digikeijs and it does look like it could be the best option

I moved to Digikeijs DR5000 from a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance2 system. My choice was guided by the built-in good connectivity options for computers - both USB and Ethernet are standard, with a choice of protocols (I'm mainly using LocoNet). Some other systems only offer computer connectivity as an add-on, often quite costly.

 

If you want to use MQTT as the protocol for accessory control, that's fine. However, you may want to keep DCC as an option simply due to the wide range of kit available that supports DCC. Digikeijs DR5000 has connectivity to a wide range of accessory devices, for point motors, for servos and also for feedback such as occupancy detection.

 

Yours, Mike.

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1 hour ago, deepfat said:

@JZjr a question for you I want to use jmri but not Oracle's JRE - is that possible?  I ask because we have just  announced our own Open Java SDK so I am going to spin that up and if I can get jmri working with my Hornby Elite. If you work in software can we talk?

 

Read the JMRI website ?   Or ask on the support forums ?    JMRI is open source, and fully open about how its built.   It uses a fairly old Java version to maintain maximum backwards compatibility with antique computer hardware.     

 

As for the Elite, its fine with throttles, but its really messy with accessories.   I don't know if this has ever been fully fixed, but the Elite used to lose commands sent to accessories if several were sent in close succession (and not report the loss or buffering to JMRI).  The only fix found was to put an artificial delay in the commands at the computer end; not too bad if setting turnouts, but a real mess if it were colour light signals with aspects controlled by multiple accessory addresses (the signals would go blank for quite a while until the correct colour was turned on).     Its a while since I gave up on trying to make an Elite work properly for someone else; we gave up and put the accessories onto a second system (Sprog Command Station) to make them reliable.  

 

 

- Nigel

 

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  • RMweb Gold

@Nigelcliffe Thanks for the advice and I have done some digging and this should work.  I am annoyed with Hornby for not continuing to enhance RailMaster, so I 'll be giving JMRI a try.  IYou make an interesting point about the Elite not buffering command and my experience indicates it does exactly the same thing with RailMaster.  So I will give jmri a tray and if it works then I'll look at getting an alternative controller.  I have been trying to support BigBear with their new software but I think that's on hold.

I do have a simple layout with no signals at all yet - Semaphore signals look really expensive! Also I just have the one Bus and won't run more than 4 trains at once it's not a club layout and sadly my club have no interest in updating their layout at all.  My layout blog is  on here if you are interested  

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With regards to throttle selection, we’ve been using Digikeijs for several Freemo meets now. The last one I did the power for had Digikeijs + Lenz throttle + Roco maus, Digitrax duplex wireless and tethered, WiThrottle through JMRI, and Z21 app all at the same time. It really is a little Swiss Army knife of systems. 

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On 26/05/2021 at 16:56, KingEdwardII said:

I moved to Digikeijs DR5000 from a Gaugemaster Prodigy Advance2 system. My choice was guided by the built-in good connectivity options for computers - both USB and Ethernet are standard, with a choice of protocols (I'm mainly using LocoNet). Some other systems only offer computer connectivity as an add-on, often quite costly.

 

If you want to use MQTT as the protocol for accessory control, that's fine. However, you may want to keep DCC as an option simply due to the wide range of kit available that supports DCC. Digikeijs DR5000 has connectivity to a wide range of accessory devices, for point motors, for servos and also for feedback such as occupancy detection.

 

Yours, Mike.

 

DCC controlled accessories aren't out, I'm just thinking I could throw something together that can control lighting with MQTT using mostly components I already have - maybe signalling too but the convenience of a ready prepared package with the correct settings for a range of signal head styles is quite appealing.

 

 

23 minutes ago, AndrewC said:

With regards to throttle selection, we’ve been using Digikeijs for several Freemo meets now. The last one I did the power for had Digikeijs + Lenz throttle + Roco maus, Digitrax duplex wireless and tethered, WiThrottle through JMRI, and Z21 app all at the same time. It really is a little Swiss Army knife of systems. 

The new digitrax handsets do look appealing, I'm going to look further into them, for sure.

 

Thanks

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Thanks for the help from everyone so far.

 

I'm chiming back in hoping someone can answer another question - I use a non-standard function mapping that will require customised latching options on a handset.  For example, F2 is usually for horns and is a momentary function (that I know on some handsets cannot be changed) but I use F2 for 'Rear Tail Lights' while I have horns on F7 & F8 respectively.  Which handsets give me the option to customise any function to be either latching or momentary?

 

I've read that the WLANmaus offers this but I also know that I can't use LocoNet over Ethernet and have a WLANmaus attached to a Digikeijs command station - are there any other options?

 

Thanks again

Edited by JZjr
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Lenz LH101.    Uhlenbrock Daisy II.      Both offer latching customisation on a per-loco basis.  There will be others. 

I think all the current Digitrax options can have latching on F2 turned on.  But that leaves all buttons as latching, which isn't ideal for horns.    

 

 

You might find changing your function mapping would open up more options.  

 

- Nigel

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9 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Lenz LH101.    Uhlenbrock Daisy II.      Both offer latching customisation on a per-loco basis.  There will be others. 

I think all the current Digitrax options can have latching on F2 turned on.  But that leaves all buttons as latching, which isn't ideal for horns.    

 

 

You might find changing your function mapping would open up more options.  

 

- Nigel

 

Thanks, it's a shame there isn't more flexibility but with the majority of the world using a single horn rather than the British two-tone it makes sense that only the single function latches by default.  I'm open to changing the function mapping I use but with only a single momentary function I wouldn't know which horn to put on it so disabling it on a Digitrax might just be enough.

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Raspberry Pi400 and DR5000 combo for me as well (via USB). I am also using OpenJDK version of Java. PanelPro works fine, DecoderPro does not (yet) - can get an engine running on PanelPro, but not programme it on DecoderPro for some reason. 

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