SE&CR 5 and 7 plank open wagons.

[GreenGiraffe22]

Didn't Paul Isles once say when he worked for Hornby they didn't scan anything, only measure..?

[truffy]

They scanned the competition’s announcements, and then measured the length of time they had to beat them to market. 
 

I could keep this up all day! 

[Pre Grouping fan]

18 minutes ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Didn't Paul Isles once say when he worked for Hornby they didn't scan anything, only measure..?

 

They scanned the Class 71 way back when but that may have been before Paul's time I'm not sure. 

[mdvle]

5 hours ago, GreenGiraffe22 said:

Didn't Paul Isles once say when he worked for Hornby they didn't scan anything, only measure..?

 

Can't comment on Hornby, but in general scanning is only used if absolutely necessary - which usually means things like complex curved surfaces that are difficult to measure accurately and get correct in model form.

 

For you typical goods wagon/coach scanning isn't likely to be necessary, and even for many locos it may not help.

 

(and for those not familiar, scanning doesn't create a CAD drawing - scanning creates a bunch of points in 3D space that someone must then spend a lot of time converting into CAD - so it doesn't save time either).

[Wickham Green too]

8 hours ago, HonestTom said:

I hear Hornby had to build an entire P2 from scratch, ..........

I thought it was two ??!?

[rapidoandy]

I have just updated the artwork images on the original post. The SR versions now feature the correct brown solebars and headstocks along with tare weights. Two of the 7 planks have also been edited to have the correct post-36 lettering style as described (rather than the pre-36 lettering).

 

Happy modelling!

[Mr chapman]

I've built quite a few cambrian kits for my layout. They really are a nice kits and go together well. Mine are loaded with hop pockets and have blue Axles. Will I be buying the rtr models? Absolutely! They can serve as empties and live in harmony side by side. 

[Christopher42]

Showing my ignorance here, but is the main difference between these and Bachmann 37-076K SECR Wagon Pack, the same difference as between a model of a particular Diagram, and a generic wagon?

[Pre Grouping fan]

31 minutes ago, Christopher42 said:

Showing my ignorance here, but is the main difference between these and Bachmann 37-076K SECR Wagon Pack, the same difference as between a model of a particular Diagram, and a generic wagon?

Pretty much! 

 

The Bachmann collectors club pack were based off of their generic wagons, numbered to similar SECR types. 

 

Rapido's are models of exact diagrams and very good ones at that. 

[jaym481]

8 hours ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Rapido's are models of exact diagrams and very good ones at that. 

 

Good ones, but unfortunately too late for my needs. My 1910-ish plans are unliekly to see accurate SE&CR RTR goods wagons anytime soon. Trying to squeeze learning CAD into my schedule so I can print what I need.

[Edwardian]

These are truly stunning and will be excellent models.  Unfortunately the choice of such late pre-Grouping prototypes (WW1 and post-WW1) rules them out for me, so I won't be buying these. Even without counting rivets, these modern designs are not representative of Wainwright era stock, so no good even 3 feet away with one eye closed for the pre-Great War modeller.  But if you had these, you'd want them very much in the foreground given the degree of detail captured.

 

Great to see more support for pre-Grouping, great to see such quality going into the humble open wagon. I think Rapido and its designer are to be commended.

 

 

[JohnR]

14 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

These are truly stunning and will be excellent models.  Unfortunately the choice of such late pre-Grouping prototypes (WW1 and post-WW1) rules them out for me, so I won't be buying these. Even without counting rivets, these modern designs are not representative of Wainwright era stock, so no good even 3 feet away with one eye closed for the pre-Great War modeller.  But if you had these, you'd want them very much in the foreground given the degree of detail captured.

 

Great to see more support for pre-Grouping, great to see such quality going into the humble open wagon. I think Rapido and its designer are to be commended.

 

 

 

I think theres the dilemma. To be commercially viable, a product needs to appeal to a wide market, and be available in a number of liveries - right through to British Railway (where a large number of sales will be coming from, I suspect). And such prototypes that lasted in numbers until the 1950s are inevitably those built around the Great War, rather than 19th Century ones. 

 

[Edwardian]

29 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

I think theres the dilemma. To be commercially viable, a product needs to appeal to a wide market, and be available in a number of liveries - right through to British Railway (where a large number of sales will be coming from, I suspect). And such prototypes that lasted in numbers until the 1950s are inevitably those built around the Great War, rather than 19th Century ones. 

 

 

Indeed, and you're preaching to the choir there; I was asked by Rails to select a SE&CR box van that would cover all the RTR loco liveries.  The problem is that wagons did not have the longevity of some loco classes, or, necessarily of even coaches. The diagram chosen for Rails currently covers 1909 (it could be backdated a little further) to the early '50s.  Hardly a type built in large numbers, but it fulfilled the brief and has sold in large numbers.  But it is by no means easy always to find wagons that have the ideal span of years.

 

Here Rapido's choice can hardly be criticised. They have chosen longevity going forward. It means they miss out on the Wainwright period/livery, but gain by going further forward into more modern periods. You can't have everything.   

 

That counts it in for many, but, sadly for me, counts it out for me. But, again, you can't have everything, and as part of a general trend of opining up earlier periods, it is to be welcomed, as is any RTR product of this apparent quality.

[Dunsignalling]

53 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

These are truly stunning and will be excellent models.  Unfortunately the choice of such late pre-Grouping prototypes (WW1 and post-WW1) rules them out for me, so I won't be buying these. Even without counting rivets, these modern designs are not representative of Wainwright era stock, so no good even 3 feet away with one eye closed for the pre-Great War modeller.  But if you had these, you'd want them very much in the foreground given the degree of detail captured.

 

Great to see more support for pre-Grouping, great to see such quality going into the humble open wagon. I think Rapido and its designer are to be commended.

 

 

I had a cuppa and a bit of a trawl through "Volume 3", in the wee smalls this morning with the front door open for half an hour to blow some (comparatively) cool air through the house.

 

The choices are a smart move on Rapido's part in that the underframe had been adopted as the SECR standard design, so there are a number of other vehicles they could use it under if these go well.

 

The only people who won't be pleased will be Cambrian Models, who make the kit equivalents....

 

John

[wainwright1]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I had a cuppa and a bit of a trawl through "Volume 3", in the wee smalls this morning with the front door open for half an hour to blow some (comparatively) cool air through the house.

 

The choices are a smart move on Rapido's part in that the underframe had been adopted as the SECR standard design, so there are a number of other vehicles they could use it under if these go well.

 

The only people who won't be pleased will be Cambrian Models, who make the kit equivalents....

 

John

In fact, six different types of wagon appeared on that 9ft 6in wheelbase chassis if I remember correctly.

 

All the best

Ray

[Skinnylinny]

1 hour ago, wainwright1 said:

In fact, six different types of wagon appeared on that 9ft 6in wheelbase chassis if I remember correctly.

 

All the best

Ray

D1347 5-plank
D1349 5-plank
D1355 7 plank

but also...
D1744 2-plank ballast wagon
D1426 covered van (the D1427 was the fitted version and had different brake gear, using Morton rather than lift-link)
D1609/1610 single bolsters (albeit with modified inner ends as they were close-coupled in pairs) - has any RTR manufacturer done a single bolster since Triang?
D1657 highway vehicle truck (open carriage truck)

Any others I've missed?

[wainwright1]

59 minutes ago, Skinnylinny said:

D1347 5-plank
D1349 5-plank
D1355 7 plank

but also...
D1744 2-plank ballast wagon
D1426 covered van (the D1427 was the fitted version and had different brake gear, using Morton rather than lift-link)
D1609/1610 single bolsters (albeit with modified inner ends as they were close-coupled in pairs) - has any RTR manufacturer done a single bolster since Triang?
D1657 highway vehicle truck (open carriage truck)

Any others I've missed?

Spot on.

There were also modifications to the bolster wagons to raise the bolster itself up a bit to clear the wagon floor.

I recall that there were only three highway wagons built, one reason why old Mr Cambrian did not do that one. I bought two of the chassis from him so I could scratch build one or two.

I had not thought of doing the fitted van. I have a spare kit in hand, now where to get the brake gear bits from ? First thought would have been ABS, but he has gone and there is no sign of any of his railway stuff re-appearing just yet. Maybe let Rapido do that.

 

All the best

Ray

[Steamport Southport]

5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The only people who won't be pleased will be Cambrian Models, who make the kit equivalents....

 

John

 

To be honest I don't think it'll affect them too much. I think by and large they are different markets with a few of us in the middle ground that buy and build.

 

If you were capable of building plastic wagon kits before this announcement then I doubt that will have changed. Many of us actually enjoy it!

 

£8 plus about £3 for wheels. That's two or three for the price of one of the RTR models. Assuming that kit builders will have the correct transfers and paints for their era in stock.

 

Would the people who only buy RTR have bought the kit? Probably not.

 

 

 

Jason

[mdvle]

Effect on kit makers depends.

 

If they are attempting to survive on existing models without investing in new product then yes they potentially may have a problem - though as noted by Steamport Southport their customers don't totally overlap.

 

But it also potentially creates new business for them - as the RTR manufactures push into previously ignored eras and prototypes they will bring more potential customers into those interests, creating additional potential customers for those prototypes that are (at least not yet) done in RTR.

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

..... D1426 covered van (the D1427 was the fitted version and had different brake gear, using Morton rather than lift-link) ......

Any others I've missed?

D1426 included both unfitted ( lift-link ) and vacuum ( Morton ) vans : D1427 was the conversion from the latter with lots of bodyside louvres ............. and, yes, you forgot the sheep wagon !! 

[Skinnylinny]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

D1426 included both unfitted ( lift-link ) and vacuum ( Morton ) vans : D1427 was the conversion from the latter with lots of bodyside louvres ............. and, yes, you forgot the sheep wagon !! 

 

Oops, you're right, I got my van diagrams muddled up. And I was unaware of the sheep wagon, what an unusual beast! 

[Compound2632]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

To be honest I don't think it'll affect them too much. I think by and large they are different markets with a few of us in the middle ground that buy and build.

 

If you were capable of building plastic wagon kits before this announcement then I doubt that will have changed. Many of us actually enjoy it!

 

£8 plus about £3 for wheels. That's two or three for the price of one of the RTR models. Assuming that kit builders will have the correct transfers and paints for their era in stock.

 

 

Indeed. The pleasure and satisfaction derived from building the kit greatly exceeds that of merely making a purchase, which makes a kit even better value.

 

The only area where kit manufacturers may suffer is the loss of sales to the capable but time-poor and cash-rich modeller, once the RTR item is equal to or better than the kit in quality. I have read that this is already the case with 4 mm scale kits for some of the more popular large locomotive classes.

[Wickham Green too]

..... but did it ever run in traffic ? - we shall never know.

 

( Apologies for any confusion : this should have followed Skinnylinny's last post on the previous page and makes absolutely no sense when read in conjunction with Compound's first post on this page ! )

Edited July 23, 2021 by Wickham Green too

[Monkersson]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Indeed. The pleasure and satisfaction derived from building the kit greatly exceeds that of merely making a purchase, which makes a kit even better value.

 

 

I fully agree.  I enjoy building kits, even though I couldnt match the fidelity of detail on rtr releases.  The whole experience of seeing the parts come together always gives me a sense of satisfaction.

 

However if an rtr model was released that was significantly better than a kit I'd built, I'd probably buy a rake of rtr to compliment my kit built versions if I wanted another rake that is.  My interest lies in 70/80's stock.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Monkersson

[Dunsignalling]

I do both, and have already built these two types from the kits, but I'll be buying some of the r-t-r ones on the principle that I can't reasonably expect folk to make SR models for me if I don't buy them when they do.

 

John