Hornby TTS sound decoders

[philg]

Does anyone know who actually MAKES the Hornby TTS sound decoders? And apologies in advance if it’s actually Hornby (but I doubt that it is)

 

I’m trying to standardise on Zimo decoders from here on, but really wanted to try out the Hornby HST sound scheme

 

Cheers in advance 

[RAF96]

Hornby generates the sound files which are loaded onto blank decoders using the write once - ready many (worm) method, but I have no idea who provides either the blanks or the loading service.

I would presume contract of the day for that batch.

Edited May 31, 2021 by RAF96

[philg]

1 hour ago, RAF96 said:

Hornby generates the sound files which are loaded onto blank decoders using the write once - ready many (worm) method, but I have no idea who provides either the blanks or the loading service.

I would presume contract of the day for that batch.

Thanks. I figured the sounds were Hornby, but who makes the actual decoders I wonder.....?

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, RAF96 said:

Hornby generates the sound files which are loaded onto blank decoders using the write once - ready many (worm) method, but I have no idea who provides either the blanks or the loading service.

I would presume contract of the day for that batch.

Bachmann seem to be "contract of the day". I understand that they have used ESU but currently use Zimo.

Hornby decoders seem to be a lot more consistent regarding available features & functions. I don't know of any other decoders quite like them, so they may well be made to Hornby's design.

[philg]

8 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Bachmann seem to be "contract of the day". I understand that they have used ESU but currently use Zimo.

Hornby decoders seem to be a lot more consistent regarding available features & functions. I don't know of any other decoders quite like them, so they may well be made to Hornby's design.

Hmmmm. A rebadged Zimo decoder would be right up my street! When I get around to pursuing this sound-idea I’ll see if the available CVs give anything away

[Izzy]

50 minutes ago, philg said:

Hmmmm. A rebadged Zimo decoder would be right up my street! When I get around to pursuing this sound-idea I’ll see if the available CVs give anything away

I think you might be getting the wrong idea here. Hornby decoders are not re-badged jobs like those Bachmann offer. They certainly aren’t Zimo’s in disguise. Very basic in all departments. TTS are just 2-channel sound and made down to a price, but decent for what they offer. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Izzy

[WIMorrison]

2 hours ago, philg said:

Hmmmm. A rebadged Zimo decoder would be right up my street! When I get around to pursuing this sound-idea I’ll see if the available CVs give anything away

The Bachman decoders that are rebadged Zimo have a little Zimo logo on the box and an extra few quid on the price :)

[russ p]

Anyone know if there is another batch of TTS decoders due? I want a 31 one to try

[cravensdmufan]

18 hours ago, russ p said:

Anyone know if there is another batch of TTS decoders due? I want a 31 one to try

I'm waiting for a 31 too.  I have three TTS 31s already, but would like one more.  Very good sound if combined with an upgraded speaker,  IMO one of the best Class 31 sounds available.

Edited June 1, 2021 by cravensdmufan
Additional wording

[JohnR]

35 minutes ago, cravensdmufan said:

I'm waiting for a 31 too.  I have three TTS 31s already, but would like one more.  Very good sound with an upgraded speaker,  IMO one of the best Class 31 sounds available.

 

Yes, I also wish they'd do some more class 20s too.

[Pete the Elaner]

19 hours ago, philg said:

Hmmmm. A rebadged Zimo decoder would be right up my street! When I get around to pursuing this sound-idea I’ll see if the available CVs give anything away

Whoever makes Hornby/TTS decoders, they are made to Hornby specifications. They are certainly not a more expensive decoder with a few minor modifications, rebadged & sold off at a lower cost.

 

 

Perhaps this is a good place to list the pros & cons of TTS?

 

Pros:

 

They are a lot cheaper than sound decoders from ESU (Loksound), Zimo & Soundtraxx.

The actual sounds are subjective, but Hornby's sounds seem to be well liked once the standard speaker has been replaced.

 

Cons:

 

TTS decoder is effectively a standard Hornby one with an extra module for sounds. It does not support more advanced features like speed curves & advanced consisting, both of which are useful with sound (advanced consisting means you can control features like horns & compressors for each individual loco while having both respond to speed control). They also have a low output, so a current-hungry loco like a Heljan class 47 can overload them & there are several cases of this being reported.

TTS does not allow synchronisation to wheel revolutions (an issue for steam locos). Loksound & Zimo do this by detecting the pulses of the motor & the exhaust beat can be adjusted.

TTS can only play the Prime Mover (engine) sound plus 1 other ("spot") sound. If you have the spirax valve clicking & choose to sound the horn, the spirax will fade out then back in again once the horn has played.

TTS does not support dynamic/active braking or whatever you prefer to call it.

TTS sounds are not very adjustable. My class 60's spirax valve was louder than the Prime Mover (engine) & no changes I made would affect this. I even changed the spirax volume to zero but this made no difference.

TTS sounds are hard coded. This makes availability more of an issue (Loksound & Zimo are sold without sound then the vendor uploads their files to them, so the decoders themselves can be made in larger numbers & the sounds held as a bunch of data files, so they are always available. It also means that you cannot re-use decoders in different locos just be re-programming them.

TTS requires a speaker (or combination) of 8 ohm impedance. Some speakers/combinations are 4 ohms, which would draw too much current.

[cravensdmufan]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Whoever makes Hornby/TTS decoders, they are made to Hornby specifications. They are certainly not a more expensive decoder with a few minor modifications, rebadged & sold off at a lower cost.

 

 

Perhaps this is a good place to list the pros & cons of TTS?

 

Pros:

 

They are a lot cheaper than sound decoders from ESU (Loksound), Zimo & Soundtraxx.

The actual sounds are subjective, but Hornby's sounds seem to be well liked once the standard speaker has been replaced.

 

Cons:

 

TTS decoder is effectively a standard Hornby one with an extra module for sounds. It does not support more advanced features like speed curves & advanced consisting, both of which are useful with sound (advanced consisting means you can control features like horns & compressors for each individual loco while having both respond to speed control). They also have a low output, so a current-hungry loco like a Heljan class 47 can overload them & there are several cases of this being reported.

TTS does not allow synchronisation to wheel revolutions (an issue for steam locos). Loksound & Zimo do this by detecting the pulses of the motor & the exhaust beat can be adjusted.

TTS can only play the Prime Mover (engine) sound plus 1 other ("spot") sound. If you have the spirax valve clicking & choose to sound the horn, the spirax will fade out then back in again once the horn has played.

TTS does not support dynamic/active braking or whatever you prefer to call it.

TTS sounds are not very adjustable. My class 60's spirax valve was louder than the Prime Mover (engine) & no changes I made would affect this. I even changed the spirax volume to zero but this made no difference.

TTS sounds are hard coded. This makes availability more of an issue (Loksound & Zimo are sold without sound then the vendor uploads their files to them, so the decoders themselves can be made in larger numbers & the sounds held as a bunch of data files, so they are always available. It also means that you cannot re-use decoders in different locos just be re-programming them.

TTS requires a speaker (or combination) of 8 ohm impedance. Some speakers/combinations are 4 ohms, which would draw too much current.

I agree with your comments Pete.

 

I found the most annoying thing about my TTS diesel sounds (and I have over 20!) are the relative volumes of different sounds within the project.

 

You make a good example of the spirax valves. So too flange squeal and other sounds. Reduce any of these to minimum and they are all still too loud.  Also annoying is the really loud brake release hiss when moving off, far louder than the engine volume!

 

I find that overall sound volume is always far too loud, especially if one's layout is in a small room!  Even after reducing CV182, though I have largely overcome this by wiring them with two 8ohm speakers in series.

 

It's a real shame because for the price they are very good. Decent motor control can be achieved by fine tuning CVs.

 

Had better care been taken with individual sound volumes, these good value decoders could have been really great value decoders – and Hornby would sell even more IMO.

[philg]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Whoever makes Hornby/TTS decoders, they are made to Hornby specifications. They are certainly not a more expensive decoder with a few minor modifications, rebadged & sold off at a lower cost.

 

 

Perhaps this is a good place to list the pros & cons of TTS?

 

Pros:

 

They are a lot cheaper than sound decoders from ESU (Loksound), Zimo & Soundtraxx.

Thanks Pete, this is most useful. But you hit my #1 on the button right off

 

Having just bought a new Lenz Set 01 and started replacing older decoders with Zimos, spending £100 or so on a SINGLE sound decoder isn’t going to happen for a while

[russ p]

I've just come back from the bureau valley and they said they are expecting a new run of TTS decoders but no timescale yet

[Pete the Elaner]

21 minutes ago, philg said:

Thanks Pete, this is most useful. But you hit my #1 on the button right off

 

Having just bought a new Lenz Set 01 and started replacing older decoders with Zimos, spending £100 or so on a SINGLE sound decoder isn’t going to happen for a while

 

Yes, I deliberately put that one first because cost is a such a big difference.

TTS has brought DCC sound to a much larger customer base.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I believe Hornby's digital electronic products (Scalextric & DCC) originally came from SGAI Tech of Hong Kong.

That was a long time ago (over 10 years )  and it may well be different now, due to corporate developments, mergers and changes to supplier contracts.

 

SGAI Tech is/was a joint venture between Cambridge based Sagentia (formerly known as Scientific Generics) and Hong Kong based AML. 

Scientific Generics (now known as Sagentia) developed the digital Scalextric products for Hornby in the 00's. 

IIRC, having worked with them on Scalextric digital, Hornby then contracted them to develop their DCC products.

I've no idea if SGAI Tech made the decoders, or if they were made by other Chinese subcontractors.

TTS may come from the same source?

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Ron Ron Ron

[RAF96]

Maybe it is time for Hornby to up the market ante and bring out a new and significantly improved capability range of economy decoders, both better TTS sound decoders with quality speakers and silent decoders in the full range of socket formats. If they do and they can keep the cost(s) within reason then maybe their market share and DCC product creds will also improve.

[cravensdmufan]

26 minutes ago, RAF96 said:

Maybe it is time for Hornby to up the market ante and bring out a new and significantly improved capability range of economy decoders, both better TTS sound decoders with quality speakers and silent decoders in the full range of socket formats. If they do and they can keep the cost(s) within reason then maybe their market share and DCC product creds will also improve.

Absolutely agree - Personally I'd be more than happy to pay say £50 or £60 (roughly half instead, of a third of the price of a "full fat" product).  So long as it has the facility to do a bit more e.g. advance consisting, remappable functions, and better control of individual sound effects.  There must be a huge market for mid price decoders. 

 

Also Hornby, if you are reading this - why not invite applications for a small number of volunteer DCC sound enthusiasts to convene somewhere central UK and listen to proposed new sound projects prior to manufacture - hold separate days for steam and D&E.  A sort of advisory panel.   It would surely be worth your while getting enthusiast's opinion and end up with a superb product.  Would only cost travelling expenses (and possibly a lunch!).  I'm sure you'd get volunteers.  Just a thought.....  

[Chrisr40]

Hi all, If you want mid range price sound decoders then why not try soundtraxx ? Please dont fix something that isn't broke with TTS, they are brilliant value for money and more than good enough unless you are someone who can honestly discern between them and an ESU /Zimo supposedly premium decoder. 

[JohnR]

12 hours ago, Chrisr40 said:

Hi all, If you want mid range price sound decoders then why not try soundtraxx ? Please dont fix something that isn't broke with TTS, they are brilliant value for money and more than good enough unless you are someone who can honestly discern between them and an ESU /Zimo supposedly premium decoder. 

 

THe only things about TTS I would change is the speaker - surely possible at no extra cost? - and having it configured for better motor control out of the box. 

[Chrisr40]

36 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

THe only things about TTS I would change is the speaker - surely possible at no extra cost? - and having it configured for better motor control out of the box. 

I think they pair the speaker to the expected loco space it's going in hence why some have the round speaker and others the oblong. From memory the ESU I bought way back had a cack speaker as standard from the factory too but there was not as much choice as you have today due to its ohm rating. 

On motor control this comes down a lot to the condition of the recipient loco in my experience and whether it's running well on dc first. I have about 12 or 13 TTS chips in various Hornby and Bachmann locos. The only changes I have had to make are changing the motor parameter or tweaking acceleration/deceleration. In most cases they worked out of the box and touch wood I havent had a duff one yet by taking precautions for electro static damage when handling them.

 

[RAF96]

I have blown one TTS sound amp and crippled another one by overloading the lighting function outputs, both finger trouble/operator error. The rest are fine.

I would like to see better speakers as standard and possibly being able to play more than one spot sound at the same time, so you could toot a horn without over-playing say a fan or other on-off sound. More CVs to play with would be a bonus.

[JohnR]

Forgot to add, higher current rating would be good too. 

[Pete the Elaner]

Stop it with the wish list of extra features. They cannot simply be added. The decoder would need to be re-designed.

TTS sells because it is significantly cheaper than other sound decoders.

Any increase in functionality will increase the cost. taking the product away from the 'cheap sound' market.

 

Don't expect TTS to change any time soon.

 

[jpendle]

On 02/06/2021 at 12:49, Chrisr40 said:

Please dont fix something that isn't broke with TTS, they are brilliant value for money and more than good enough unless you are someone who can honestly discern between them and an ESU /Zimo supposedly premium decoder. 

 

Really???? Well I for one can honestly discern the difference between TTS and ESU/Zimo, which for all your cynicism are premium decoders.

 

At least I would be able to if Hornby's Technical Specification actually told me anything!

 

This is from the Hornby Website.

 

Tech Specs

Item Length - Without Packaging (cm)     1.8

Item Scale   1:76 Scale 00 Gauge

Finish  Painted

Colour Green

Gauge OO

Operator Hornby

Designer Hornby

 

How on earth is that a Technical Specification?

 

And I know that they don't support DCC CV's 3 & 4 and therefore aren't compliant with the DCC standard.

 

And I really hope that they don't paint them green!

 

I'm sure that for the price they allow a lot of people to dip their toes into the world of DCC sound. But let's not pretend that they are anything other than what they are.

A radically simplified set of decoders for people who don't ever want to change anything except for the decoder address.

 

Regards,

 

John P