RAF96 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, jpendle said: ...And I know that they don't support DCC CV's 3 & 4 and therefore aren't compliant with the DCC standard. Very wrong. . . TTS decoders do support CVs 3 and 4 which are set by default to value 15 to get the pre-start sounds correct. TTS decoders are based on their R8249 basic decoder which is NMRA certified, says so on the box. Maybe you are getting confused with CVs 5 and 6 which are not supported. Edit: I agree with the poor Tech Spec. This has been pointed out to Hornby after their new website launch and is the subject of a site wide review as most product pages are inadequate. Edited July 11, 2021 by RAF96 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philg Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 Personal experience with TTS leads me to believe that the target customer is someone who wants to “play” trains rather than model them and would like sound effects as well. The fact that the decoders are almost entirely pre+programmed with little option to change their behaviour doesn’t lend them to serious modelling This is not intended as a slight against anyone who chooses TTS but it is intended as a criticism of Hornby who, in my opinion, have never seriously embraced DCC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 The TTS sounds are fine for the price, especially the 08 and 20. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted July 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2021 4 minutes ago, meatloaf said: The TTS sounds are fine for the price, especially the 08 and 20. 31 also seems popular. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philg Posted July 11, 2021 Author Share Posted July 11, 2021 15 minutes ago, Gilbert said: 31 also seems popular. But the rest of the TTS decoder programming (speed control etc) is completely unchangeable. My HST maxes out at far too high a top speed, and I’m stuck with it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 I think that the term should be cheap, not necessarily value, because many people have found that they had to replace them with full function decoders which negates the use of the value term. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted July 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 11, 2021 You'll forgive me if I don't agree with this criticism of Hornby and their TTS decoders. I applaud them for trying to provide affordable sound decoders for some of the locos they produce.That they are specifically produced to suit the Hornby loco as far as is possible. Usable for anyone with little or no DCC knowledge. And producing them as separate items for their customers that want to fit them into locos already bought. That they aren't all things to all people who want to use them in other types/makes of locos because they are cheaper than other offerings is hardly Hornby's fault. To make comparison with those from DCC makers whose products are specifically made to suit as wide a range of differing options as possible because they are stand-alone fitments isn't to my mind either valid or fair. Especially since these cost generally around 2-3 times as much - the last three Zimo MX645's I've recently bought have cost £115 each, and that's without any speakers. I think they need to be accepted for what they are. And viewed accordingly rather than being classed as just not good enough. 15 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 51 minutes ago, philg said: Personal experience with TTS leads me to believe that the target customer is someone who wants to “play” trains rather than model them and would like sound effects as well. The fact that the decoders are almost entirely pre+programmed with little option to change their behaviour doesn’t lend them to serious modelling This is not intended as a slight against anyone who chooses TTS but it is intended as a criticism of Hornby who, in my opinion, have never seriously embraced DCC I disagree. I think that Hornby have seriously embraced DCC, but seeing how crowded the top end of the market is, have aimed much of their their DCC kit and decoders at a particular segment of the DCC buying public, specifically those who don't want to spend a lot and just want it to work out of the box with as little "fiddling, fettling and tweaking" as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a fair number of modellers who apart from setting the address, have never changed CVs despite having fully spec'd decoders in their locos. 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted July 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 11, 2021 Sometimes however, you do HAVE to change CVs on a TTS decoder - even when fitting it into the Hornby model it was designed for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 3 hours ago, JohnR said: Sometimes however, you do HAVE to change CVs on a TTS decoder - even when fitting it into the Hornby model it was designed for. I find it depemds on the loco. Ive done 2 this week. First was a 37 decoder into the new yellow network rail 37. Jerky running at lower speeds and starting off. Made better with cv changes . 2nd was an 08 decoder into a recent green Hornby 08. This one runs very smooth, crawls beautifully and default setting have nice amounts of interia preprogrammed. Im waiting on the Deltic TTS to see what thats like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 21 hours ago, meatloaf said: The TTS sounds are fine for the price, especially the 08 and 20. From what I've heard of TTS for myself, the recorded sounds are great when used with a decent speaker. They make DCC sound available to those who consider premium decoders like those by ESU, Zimo, Digitrax too expensive to consider. I have no problem with that. They are lacking in some features though: The ability to change some CVs is missing, such as advanced consisting, advanced motor control. Volume adjustment is a lot more crude. A separate brake feature is not available. It is not possible to synchronise exhaust beat with wheel revolutions. They are incapable of simultaneously playing more than 1 'non-engine' sound such as compressor & horn. (Premium decoders can usually play up to 4 at once). If you value these features enough to pay the extra for a premium decoder, then TTS is not for you. There is no competition for TTS at its price point, so Hornby currently have this piece of the market to themselves. It seems to sell well & if it makes them a decent profit, this makes it a good product. Why would Hornby abandon this in favour of a more expensive product to directly compete with others in an established market? 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railsnail Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 On 11/07/2021 at 13:02, Gilbert said: 31 also seems popular. Having just installed a type 31 TTS into a Hornby detailed Network Rail loco I would say the sound is great for a cheap decoder. I swapped the provided rectangular speaker for an iPhone 6 speaker mainly due to space issues, (I didn't want to remove the fan), and was very pleased with the result. The iPhone speaker fits snugly under the Hornby main PCB, and the TTS decoder once insulated sits on the main PCB thus no chopping chassis, removal of bits etc. Although my memories of the sound of these locomotives date back to my mid-teens in the early seventies, I would say that Hornby has captured the EE engine sounds admirably given the tiny speaker in my model. Well let's say it brought a smile to my face. So thanks Hornby. I would like to add one of these to the old 1960's Tri-ang version of the Class 31 at some point, but I have concerns regarding the current capability of the TTS decoders which may prove to be an issue with the old motor/mechanisms of these circa 60 year old models. Has anyone had any experiences of this? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted July 14, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Railsnail said: Having just installed a type 31 TTS into a Hornby detailed Network Rail loco I would say the sound is great for a cheap decoder. I'm about to do the same - I may change the speaker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railsnail Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Gilbert said: I'm about to do the same - I may change the speaker. Before installing, I set up the TTS with provided speaker on a DCC decoder tester and recorded the sound then swapped the Hornby speaker for an iPhone 6 speaker with the 'bit on the side' removed and the resultant hole plugged. Once again I recorded the result to try to compare the two and thought there was slightly less volume with the iPhone speaker, but the difference was hardly noticeable. My 'other half' who is more musically inclined and has better hearing than me thought the iPhone speaker sounded better. So who am I to argue Anyhow, the iPhone speaker (with the metal bits insulated with sellotape) fits snugly under the loco PCB and the insulated decoder sits on top of the PCB. The loco body just fits with the decoder mounted in that location. A quick check for working lights, motion and sound of course, screws replaced and the job was done and I didn't have to make any space by removing the fan assembly. So happy days! Good luck with yours and I hope you enjoy the result! If you need any pictures then feel free to contact me. I'm certainly no expert, but I'm happy to share my experience. PS Quick tip. If you install the decoder above the PCB as I did, make sure the connecting wires do not show through the little engine viewing windows on the side of the loco. Edited July 14, 2021 by Railsnail Extraneous word crept in! Plus added a PS 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted July 14, 2021 Share Posted July 14, 2021 Many of the steam ones are quite handy for more locos than the ones that they are intended to be used in. I have a trio. Many chips of this style can be wiped and then reloaded. But that might involve exposure to UV. As Hornby give out zero info about technical details and file sizes and types etc that can then be loaded it will be impossible to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 14, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2021 26 minutes ago, Gilbert said: I'm about to do the same - I may change the speaker. There's quite a few youtube videos with Hornby TTS and different speaker combos. I've recently been fitting the Roads n Rails 8 ohm square into a couple of 66s and a 60 with satisfactory results. I find the TTS great for the roundy-roundy trains on DL where I don't need all the bells and whistles (pun intended) of the higher spec decoders. My first experience of a TTS decoder was fitting one of the early 37 decoders (later TTS decoders seem to need tweaking to get them to run well) into a ViTrains 37. Change of speaker to a 20x40 rectangular. Quite a few folk didn't believe me when I said it was a TTS unit. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted July 14, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 14, 2021 I think it's probably worth pointing out that the Diesel TTS decoders are more versatile than the steam ones because the notch levels can be set to choice - well on the types I have , 31 & 08 - so can be better 'tuned' to locos with differing gear ratios. Since the speed of the loco isn't so crucial it all looks and sounds okay whatever the case The one big downside with the steam is the chuff rate can't be altered at all, and is totally dependent on the feedback from the loco's motor. Otherwise there is no chuff at all. A steam engine with chuff that is at odds with the wheel revolution is awful, worse than no sound. I've tried to overcome this problem, failed, and so use proper full fat Zimo installs for steam now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 On 14/07/2021 at 21:00, AMJ said: Many chips of this style can be wiped and then reloaded. But that might involve exposure to UV. As Hornby give out zero info about technical details and file sizes and types etc that can then be loaded it will be impossible to do so. TTS decoders are WORM i.e. write once read many, so not rewritable. Even if Hornby published detail of the files, then what could you do with them. Most sound decoders require a matching hardware programmer (Zimo, ESU, etc) and Hornby don’t have one for sale. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philg Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 Well, I just invested in my first Zimo sound decoder. Apart from the obvious differences in “driveability” (amazing slow speed and adjustable top speed to name but two) the sounds and ability to tweak those sounds just blew me away. Yes, TTS is a great “bargain” introduction to DCC sound, but it really doesn’t give even the slightest hint of what’s possible. Are they worth the higher price? IMHO, certainly they are. In fact having compared the two, I’d rather have fewer great sounding locos that lots of mediocre ones. But this is, of course, personal opinion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogauger Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 I've just put a TTS decoder into a P4 gauged Lima 31 which has had a 12v CD motor fitted. Has anybody got a similar situation and has changed the CV's to get some reasonable running especially as the loco will be needed to do some shunting. Any help will be gratefully appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philg Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 Pretty sure the TTS decoders don’t support any of the expected speed management cvs. My HST one certainly doesn’t and is destined to be replaced by a Zimo version when time allows Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogauger Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 It seems that I might have to work out CV combinations using the Sprog/DecoderPro route. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philg Posted October 10, 2021 Author Share Posted October 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, hogauger said: It seems that I might have to work out CV combinations using the Sprog/DecoderPro route. Good luck with that. I gave up. Couldn’t find any way to slow the top speed (no cv5 support) nor get acceptable slow speed performance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogauger Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Might have put the old motor back after a serious clean gear fettling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold JohnR Posted October 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2021 Motor Control on the TTS decoders is very much hit and miss. If they could just improve that, they would be perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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