Hornby TTS sound decoders

[Izzy]

2 hours ago, hogauger said:

It seems that I might have to work out CV combinations using the Sprog/DecoderPro route.

There are very little cv changes that can be made. Just acc/dec I.e. cv 3 & 4 plus the two motor control sets set through cv 150. Either 0 or 1. Then adjusting cv 151 & 152 for 0 or 153 & 154 for 1. It’s all in the leaflet that they provide and I find is easy to do via POM with near instant feedback, if you see what I mean. Firing up DP just for this is a bit pointless. 

 

For the finest control the decoder can provide try set 0 with 1 for both cv’s. If you find you just can’t get reasonable performance with either set and any cv values, and I’ve tried endless combinations with some motors and not done it, then there is another answer.

 

Have you run the loco under DCC with another decoder? If so, and you were happy with it’s performance then carry on using that to control the motor. Just add the TTS into the mix by connecting it up to the current collection and leave the motor connection off. Give it the same address and that’s it, job done. It will follow the motor commands and sound as the other decoder does the driving. 
 

Or just splash out on a budget Zimo @ £20 to do the driving if not. Still a reasonably cheap solution. 

[Chrisr40]

6 hours ago, hogauger said:

I've just put a TTS decoder into a P4 gauged Lima 31 which has had a 12v CD motor fitted.  Has anybody got a similar situation and has changed the CV's to get some reasonable running especially as the loco will be needed to do some shunting.  Any help will be gratefully appreciated.

 

May be of some use if only for contact with people who have tried it previously. Also may be worth dropping Strathpeffer junctions web page an email. Good luck.

[newbryford]

On 11/07/2021 at 13:19, philg said:

But the rest of the TTS decoder programming (speed control etc) is completely unchangeable. My HST maxes out at far too high a top speed, and I’m stuck with it

 

I find that not turning up the controller to full helps...........

 

[RAF96]

Even though TTS does not support adjustment of CV 5, etc if you are using software to operate your layout each loco can often be set to cruise limits in the roster.

[JohnR]

For those of you who saw the Hornby program on TV last night, they were shown testing a sugar cube speaker as an alternative to their existing speaker choice with the TTS.

 

The noises looked positive - even talking of having it pre-fitted, so hopefully the next batch of TTS decoders have a better speaker.

[RAF96]

5 minutes ago, JohnR said:

For those of you who saw the Hornby program on TV last night, they were shown testing a sugar cube speaker as an alternative to their existing speaker choice with the TTS.

 

The noises looked positive - even talking of having it pre-fitted, so hopefully the next batch of TTS decoders have a better speaker.

 

Next generation of TTS decoders I would think, as they also spoke about HiFi. Reruns of existing decoders will likely have the standard speakers, as it be difficult to change the production run and packaging, etc to suit. The program indicated they would factory installed, hence maybe bespoke enclosures for each loco, but surely must make their way into TTS retro-kits as well.

[Pete the Elaner]

On 10/10/2021 at 20:28, JohnR said:

Motor Control on the TTS decoders is very much hit and miss. If they could just improve that, they would be perfect.

 

Maybe they would be more suitable for you, but they would still have limitations which put others off:

 

Person A wants better motor control

Person B wants advanced consisting

Person C wants the ability to sync exhaust beats

Person D wants dynamic braking

Person E wants something I have not thought about

 

So which do Hornby add for a 'minimal' increase in price? They can't add them all because it would push up the price beyond a 'minimal' increase into a market with competition. What would they consider an acceptable 'minimal' increase anyway? Any extras would require a re-design of the decoder.

 

Being cheap is what makes them sell & keeps them in a market of their own. Increasing the price would take them closer to the market already occupied by competition.

 

[JohnR]

22 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Maybe they would be more suitable for you, but they would still have limitations which put others off:

 

Person A wants better motor control

Person B wants advanced consisting

Person C wants the ability to sync exhaust beats

Person D wants dynamic braking

Person E wants something I have not thought about

 

 

 

Some of those are advanced features which even some "full fat" decoders dont have. Better motor control (or even adequate motor control) is the bare minimum. 

[Pete the Elaner]

7 minutes ago, JohnR said:

 

Some of those are advanced features which even some "full fat" decoders dont have. Better motor control (or even adequate motor control) is the bare minimum. 

 

Some are, but not all of them. Different features are considered "bare minimum" by different people & not everyone would put better motor control at the top of their list.

Advanced consisting is on nearly every decoder I have ... apart from Hornby's.

Synchronising exhaust beats is something many steam modellers find essential.

 

Better motor control is not a bare minimum. If Hornby agreed with you, it would already be on Hornby's standard decoder on which the TTS is based...but it isn't.

They are not going to spend money re-designing a decoder which is popular because of its low cost just to add a feature which they appear to consider unnecessary.

 

If better motor control is that important to you, maybe you should consider a Zimo or ESU.

There are features missing from TTS which I find desirable, so I won't be buying any more. Not everyone shares my view in this respect & sales seem to be pretty good so I accept it is a product which sells well.

I therefore do not think Hornby should change it.

[WIMorrison]

I think that Hornby know their target market for TTS and that, that market wouldn’t consider the more capable and full featured products from ESU or Zimo.

 

The omission of the fundamental DCC control such as max speed is highly indicative of that market.

[RAF96]

How about if motor control was achieved by auto-calibration. How effective is that feature on existing ‘advanced’ decoders.

How many people as a proportion of the sum even use consisting, much less advanced consisting.

I can see chuff synch being a must on a shunting plank or other slow moving scenario, where you can count chuff per rev, but as soon as a loco is past arms length or moving at any pace I couldn’t care less, unless the general chuff rate doesn’t reasonably match the loco speed, i.e. loco is at medium pace and chuffs are obviously much faster or much slower.

Dynamic braking is something I have long wished for, since trying it on a development software package many, many years ago - there was a throttle and a brake slider. Pull the throttle back and the loco coasted until the brake was applied. Brake with throttle on and the loco checks its speed until the brake is released then back up to speed again.

Hornby has given us this in their HM | DC analogue control APP and I find it adds to the driving experience.

[philg]

I’m thinking an earlier response hit the nail on the head. TTS decoders are all about SOUND. Everything else seems to be of a lesser importance. Hornby have decided that they can sell SOUND at a “bargain price, and their target demographic will be happy even though other “stuff” is missing

 

As I said before, I need sensible top speeds, controllable slow speed and decent management of inertia/momentum. So Zimo wins hands down, even at twice the price

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, RAF96 said:

How about if motor control was achieved by auto-calibration. How effective is that feature on existing ‘advanced’ decoders.

 

 

I auto-calibrated my HST with a Loksound v4 fitted & it was dreadful.

It was more like a 25 than a 125.

 

But I completely agree with the above post. If you just want a basic decoder with sounds, then TTS is ideal. I want other features too, so I will always choose a Loksound or Zimo.

[G-BOAF]

I know TTS Sound is generally poor in terms of beats per wheel revolutions.

However is this due to poor set up by Hornby, or due to the low discretisation of different chuff rates. Looking at videos on Youtube there seem to be maybe 3 or 4 different chuff speeds (which makes sense given the limited capability of the decoder.

So is it a case of chuffs per wheel rev not being set up, or that the chuffs are only correct for a few speed steps before things get very out of sync?

[RAF96]

On 18/12/2021 at 21:23, G-BOAF said:

I know TTS Sound is generally poor in terms of beats per wheel revolutions.

However is this due to poor set up by Hornby, or due to the low discretisation of different chuff rates. Looking at videos on Youtube there seem to be maybe 3 or 4 different chuff speeds (which makes sense given the limited capability of the decoder.

So is it a case of chuffs per wheel rev not being set up, or that the chuffs are only correct for a few speed steps before things get very out of sync?

 

This has been explained before. Hornby will record up to 18 different speeds of constant chuff and stitch those sound bytes together in steps under control of throttle demand and BEMF. Hence as you say the chuffs will synch some of the time, but not all of the time. There is no transcending variable continuous chuff rate. 

[G-BOAF]

Playing with my J36 Maude on digital this week. It had been run in when first purchased on DC but I've reconnected the decoder now I have a DCC controller (Prodigy Advance2)

Decided to renumber the decoder to 673. renumbering instructions sent info fine, but then nothing from the loco, no sound, no movement, nothing. Reprogrammed to 0003. Still nothing. 

Worried I had messed up by going to a 3 digit address, to tried programming at 73. Still nothing. Going into Prog on main, the controller was reading the decoder and its new address.

 

Did a decoder reset (CV 8 to 8). The decoder reset to address 0003 (again with affirmative readback from controller), confirming the chip had been reset to factory state.

BUT STILL NOTHING. sound, movement, zero.

 

Yes loco is outside warranty, but since I've only just got a DCC controller, the chip has never been used.

 

Any tips before I beg Hornby to fix and out of warranty (but never used) TTS decoder?

[Chrisr40]

48 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

 

 

Any tips before I beg Hornby to fix and out of warranty (but never used) TTS decoder?

Hi, sounds very frustrating. I know it may appear a daft question but does it make any difference if the loco is facing the opposite direction ? There were some issues with this that people picked up on your dcc controller and others I seem to recall. I also know that there was a thread on the Hornby page about this loco which whilst a different controller may be worth a punt

Also, you don't need to put in the leading zeros on the address when calling it up

Edited December 26, 2021 by Chrisr40

[G-BOAF]

20 minutes ago, Chrisr40 said:

Hi, sounds very frustrating. I know it may appear a daft question but does it make any difference if the loco is facing the opposite direction ? There were some issues with this that people picked up on your dcc controller and others I seem to recall. I also know that there was a thread on the Hornby page about this loco which whilst a different controller may be worth a punt

Also, you don't need to put in the leading zeros on the address when calling it up

I saw that and tried turning it round. Didnt make a squat of difference. Should i turn it round and do a reset as well?

[Chrisr40]

9 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

I saw that and tried turning it round. Didnt make a squat of difference. Should i turn it round and do a reset as well?

Have you tried it without the leading zeros on the address 3 following reset too ? You don't need them

[smokebox]

Some controllers consider 0003 to be a long address and 3 or 03 as a short address.

[TPC]

Recalculate your CV 29 and reprogram. It sometimes confuses the decoder with long & short addresses.  If set for short ,check if CV 17 & 18 reads the same default value (both should be the same), and CV 1 should be the value you have pick for the short address.  17 & 18 is you long address ( if necessary you will have to reverse calc to see what it is). 

[Izzy]

I have no issue with TTS decoders and my Prodigy system as concerns direction. This was I recall an issue with the early batch class 31’s, which I have….  But it was a problem with my Sprog II. 
 

If you set an address using the Prodigy it will automatically set cv29 for long or short address. But…. it will set it so DC running is disabled, which is what is anyway recommended by Hornby for TTS as they don’t/can’t do DC. So not an issue with these but would be for other sound/non-sound decoders also capable of use under DC.

 

As there are so few cv’s that can be changed with TTS decoders I only ever use POM with the Prodigy. I have also found that when you change the address you often need to remove the loco from the track/switch off the DCC system, to allow the decoder to ‘rest’ before it will accept the new one. On occasion I have had to try re-setting the address several times before it will ‘take’. Other times it can be instant, just as other makes would be. There often seems no rhyme or reason to this…..

[RAF96]

Ref short and long addresses. When you reset a decoder it gets 3 as its short address and 100 as its long long address, which technically is a short address (1-127).

TTS (recent) decoders come with DC running set to off as default but it can be turned back on in CV29. It is not permanently disabled.

[G-BOAF]

6 hours ago, TPC said:

Recalculate your CV 29 and reprogram. It sometimes confuses the decoder with long & short addresses.  If set for short ,check if CV 17 & 18 reads the same default value (both should be the same), and CV 1 should be the value you have pick for the short address.  17 & 18 is you long address ( if necessary you will have to reverse calc to see what it is). 

Wouldn't all this be wiped to default when I reset CV8?

Or have I missed thigs up royally by entering a 3 digit address at the start?

Edited December 27, 2021 by G-BOAF

[Nigelcliffe]

1 hour ago, RAF96 said:

Ref short and long addresses. When you reset a decoder it gets 3 as its short address and 100 as its long long address, which technically is a short address (1-127).

 

No, if its stored in CV17/CV18, its a long address.   CV1 stores short addresses covering 1-127.  CV17/18 stores long addresses of range 1-16,383

 

Manufacturers of DCC systems have reached different decisions on which addresses to permit to work on their throttles.  Examples:  Lenz are 1-99 short, 100-9999 long,   Digitrax are 1-127 short, 128-9983 long,  NCE are 1-127 short, 0001-9999 long  (ie. "1" is a different loco address to "0001" for NCE).       

 

I think the Hornby Elite follows the Lenz range, so 1-99 is short and 100-9999 is long.  Hornby will have defaults which work with their system.  

 

There's a "safe" range of addresses which work with most systems:  short 1-99,  long 128-9983.   Avoid 100-127, and don't go above 9983.   

 

 

-  Nigel