ForeverAutumn Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 So I have a few GWR and LMS engines in my collection and I want to make a layout for both to be able to run on them at some point, so a friend of mine suggested a joint railway of sorts, problem is I don't know much when it comes to joint railways or where to even put this thing. May extend the history of this back into the LNWR/GWR period for this to have more to it. The basic idea is it has a harbor, steel mill, a few more industrial facilities nearby, and two collieries, the first opening early on and running dry requiring coal import to its mills, and the second being found later on, about later grouping era. I wanted to go for something that would go through a very hilly landscape, perhaps this would start in England then as it climbs would head into Wales. (One thing I need to make sure of is that I don't collide with other lines where I shouldn't be, Apart from its links to its jointed companies of course.) At the moment however I am struggling to find a suitable location for this line, as well as a realistic history. This is my first time with this sort of thing, and will take any tips/knowledge I can get. (Forgive if the topic this is in isn't quite suitable, I didn't really know where else to put this.) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Graham T Posted May 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2021 Sounds like an ambitious and interesting project - I hope you've got lots of space! Joint lines certainly existed; a quick search on Google will turn up some examples and then you can pick one to add your imaginary line onto. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 Definitely will be! I couldn't dream of doing the entire thing, was thinking of just the terminus, mill, and some countryside. I am aware of some existing joint companies, very basic knowledge of course but they will definitely make good inspiration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 @ForeverAutumn - sounds like an exciting project! :-) Have you looked at RailMapOnline? https://www.railmaponline.com/UKIEMap.php In particular, where the green line (of the GWR) overlap with the purple lines (of the LNWR) Places that look promising (from south to north): Royal Leamington Spa Birmingham Dudley Wolverhampton Telford / Coalport Shrewsbury Nantwich Saltney (near Chester) e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stafford–Shrewsbury_line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalport_branch_line Plus a few outliers heading into Wales Hereford https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_Wales_line Even as far as Swansea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanelly_Railway Hope that helps Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 One example of a GWR & LNWR/Midland joint railway is the Halesowen Railway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halesowen_Railway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 @KeithMacdonald I had no idea a site like that even existed! that'll definitely be helpful! Cheers, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted May 31, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2021 And of course there's Bristol. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 one thing worth mentioning; this line should be fairly north, it has a deal with a line (created by a friend who has been helping me with this) outside of Crewe, so should at least been in a close proximity to that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 There were at least two LNWR and GWR joint railways - Shrewsbury & Hereford and the Birkenhead Railways. They almost meet your criteria, but if you want a fictitious line, you could assume that there the section connecting the ends of these two was built jointly too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aire Head Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 8 hours ago, ForeverAutumn said: one thing worth mentioning; this line should be fairly north, it has a deal with a line (created by a friend who has been helping me with this) outside of Crewe, so should at least been in a close proximity to that. The GWR and LMS both operated into Market Drayton. The GWR used the route to gain access to Crewe so perhaps somewhere around that area? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinofLoxley Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 the new layout I am currently building is based on exactly this premise - Wolverhampton rebuilt in the 1950's to allow LMS/GWR through trains, with twin semi-fictitious termini using Birmingham and Telford. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hando Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 9 hours ago, phil_sutters said: And of course there's Bristol. Don't forget the Severn & Wye! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 11 hours ago, Aire Head said: The GWR and LMS both operated into Market Drayton. The GWR used the route to gain access to Crewe so perhaps somewhere around that area? Seems like a decent spot! ill remember it for later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 13 hours ago, Nick Holliday said: There were at least two LNWR and GWR joint railways - Shrewsbury & Hereford and the Birkenhead Railways. They almost meet your criteria, but if you want a fictitious line, you could assume that there the section connecting the ends of these two was built jointly too. Another good idea, however i was thinking more a direct connection to the larger companies, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 11 hours ago, Hando said: Don't forget the Severn & Wye! Beat me to it. The Severn & Wye Joint was between the Midland & GWR, in the Forest of Dean. Bordered on Wales; it's what I immediately thought of reading the OP. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 I think I definitely have enough inspiration for the starts of the line, now where should something like the collieries go? or the harbor and mill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 On 31/05/2021 at 22:22, KeithMacdonald said: One example of a GWR & LNWR/Midland joint railway is the Halesowen Railway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halesowen_Railway I wouldn't have thought route that was suitable for large engines of either LMS or GWR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted June 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said: I wouldn't have thought route that was suitable for large engines of either LMS or GWR. Well when it was built they didn't have large engines. The Midland had nothing bigger than an 0-6-0 for goods and 4-4-0 for passengers. I can't speak for the GWR but I believe they used the same sort of locos back then. The only bigger loco that the midland had was Bertha but she was only used for the Lickey incline and was much later, sure they had a few 2-6-0 yanky locos but they wern't very good and were soon sold off. When the joint line was opened the midland were still running 2-2-2s, although they were being phased out by then, and 2-4-0s which were express passenger locos back then lots of them were double framed as well. If you want to run big locos on a joint line/station then you need to be looking at somewhere like Leamington Spa, Gloucester, Wolverhampton or Bristol Temple Meads. Midland/GWR joint lines were rare as the didn't play well together, in fact they were mortal enemies who built lines just to spite each other. Regards Lez. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted June 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2021 How big can the layout be, @ForeverAutumn? And what scale will it be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 5 minutes ago, Harlequin said: How big can the layout be, @ForeverAutumn? And what scale will it be? Not sure of space yet, all I know it'll probably be 4mm so I can have my mate run his stock on it. This is only the very early planning stages, just trying to figure out the lore before I get building. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted June 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2021 25 minutes ago, ForeverAutumn said: Not sure of space yet, all I know it'll probably be 4mm so I can have my mate run his stock on it. This is only the very early planning stages, just trying to figure out the lore before I get building. The danger is that working out the lore might be wasted if you haven’t got enough space to then represent the place(s) you’ve invented... You might need a space at least the size of a double garage to hold what you’ve described at 4mm scale. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, Harlequin said: The danger is that working out the lore might be wasted if you haven’t got enough space to then represent the place(s) you’ve invented... You might need a space at least the size of a double garage to hold what you’ve described at 4mm scale. Oh don't worry, I'm not doing everything I'm describing, I'm putting forth ideas currently. besides it's quite fun coming up with this sort of lore. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Holliday Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 17 hours ago, ForeverAutumn said: On 01/06/2021 at 06:48, Nick Holliday said: There were at least two LNWR and GWR joint railways - Shrewsbury & Hereford and the Birkenhead Railways. They almost meet your criteria, but if you want a fictitious line, you could assume that there the section connecting the ends of these two was built jointly too. Another good idea, however I was thinking more a direct connection to the larger companies, I've no axe to grind about my suggestion, but, just out of interest, what do you mean by "a direct connection to the larger companies"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold lezz01 Posted June 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) If you have room and don't need to have a station then Tuffley Junction on the Midland line in Gloucestershire would be a good choice. It's where the line from Gloucester docks via Hempstead joins the main line on the midland side and has the GWR running parallel to it. It even has a road over bridge running across at an angle on the left hand side for an exit. No station but if you just want to watch the trains go by it would make a good layout. There's even a couple of sidings for a spot of shunting, a loop for the docks branch and the main lines give you the scope for running large LMS and GWR engines. If I had the room I would be tempted myself. Regards Lez. Edited June 2, 2021 by lezz01 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverAutumn Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Nick Holliday said: I've no axe to grind about my suggestion, but, just out of interest, what do you mean by "a direct connection to the larger companies"? I should've been more clear on that, by that I meant a junction to the joint companies that built it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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