Prototype practice in Lampeter

[The Stationmaster]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Is there any advantage over sending Call Attention in ringing your oppo to see whether he's arrived yet ?  If he does acknowledge that, you'd send 5-5-5 and if not, you infer there there's no point as he's still on his bike.  Obviously if you want a general chat, that's what the phone's (not supposed to be) for and in any case if the first train isn't due yet he probably wants to put the kettle on, sort out the stove etc.

Most Signalmen I've come across usually got on the circuit 'phone first - ideally to find out if they (were still required - a rare question) or more likely to find out if they would be in for a bit of overtime - plus exchanging pleasantries of course.

[Nevermakeit]

How long would it be between the Lampeter signalman acknowledging the train from Llanybyther and it arriving at the station, please? Presumably he is responsible for it all that time? 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Nevermakeit said:

How long would it be between the Lampeter signalman acknowledging the train from Llanybyther and it arriving at the station, please? Presumably he is responsible for it all that time? 

Assuming that trains are offered between 'boxes in the normal wayI. and the train was not crossing an Up train at Llanbyther (none are booked to cross there in the 1949 STT)  it would be approximately 20 minutes for a Down passenger train and 15 minutes for a freight which is shunting at Llanbyther.   The Lampeter Signalman is only interested in the train in terms of any responsibility for it after it has left Llanbyther - which is about 10 minutes before arrival at Lampeter for a passenger train/15 minutes for a freight train.

[Nevermakeit]

Still related to the signal box, does anyone know whether bricks have changed in size since the box was built (early 20th century)?  I was thinking of counting the number of bricks to get an approximate size for the box, but if bricks today are longer (or shorter) and fatter (or thinner), it will distort the answer.  Thanks.

[The Stationmaster]

11 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

Still related to the signal box, does anyone know whether bricks have changed in size since the box was built (early 20th century)?  I was thinking of counting the number of bricks to get an approximate size for the box, but if bricks today are longer (or shorter) and fatter (or thinner), it will distort the answer.  Thanks.

Modern bricks are to metric sixze so are smaller than the bricks ys used when that box was bullt.  Officially bricks then were 9" long  x 3" deep. but a couple I've just measured are 9 and a quarter long x two and three quarters deep.  However they were usually laid with much narrower mortar course than today so it's best to work on 9" x3" for a brick

[kingfisher9147]

I don't think bricks on signal box were changed that much unless work needed to be done. To make them safe but would be a interesting to know if any boxes still had the same bricks. I will have to have to look at on the one on the gwili at BA as that was moved from it original site. On another note the Bradshaw guide was a let down only time tables not info on the area. Will have to do more research. 

Mike

[The Stationmaster]

56 minutes ago, kingfisher9147 said:

I don't think bricks on signal box were changed that much unless work needed to be done. To make them safe but would be a interesting to know if any boxes still had the same bricks. I will have to have to look at on the one on the gwili at BA as that was moved from it original site. On another note the Bradshaw guide was a let down only time tables not info on the area. Will have to do more research. 

Mike

It's not so much the bricks being changed but the time when the size of bricks changed to metric instead of Imperial - and the GWR had long ceased ro exist by the time that happened and the EWR had by then  ceased to build mechanical signal boxes using bricks.  GWR signal boxes were plenty well enough built when using brickwork for it never to needed any later atention from extension (ta rare oin later years) or repair.

[kingfisher9147]

From chatting to some guys on a facebook singalbox page group. I found out that most bricks were to a standard size mainly depending on the length of box. very rare it was changed or a odd size brick unless it came from a local source.

mike 

[Nevermakeit]

Were carriages assigned to particular routes in a similar way to locomotives being allocated to sheds? If so, is there somewhere that lists what was where when? Thanks. 

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Nevermakeit said:

Were carriages assigned to particular routes in a similar way to locomotives being allocated to sheds? If so, is there somewhere that lists what was where when? Thanks. 

Yes and no.  All locations which had an allocation of coaching stock would have whatever were required in terms of vehicles of a particular passenger and/or van capacity plus what was needed to comply with route availability restrictions (which were numerous and complex for longer and wider coaches) and possiblya requirement in some places for vehicles to be either bogie vehicles or - in earlier years - not bogie vehicles.

 

So what a location got was what was needed to meet those criteria,  and they got it from what was available.  Once coachres were allcated to aplace they tended to stay in its workings unless they either needed extra maintenance attention while elsewhere or they were swiped by another location (and possibly replaced by something else.  What this meant in practice was that coaches tended to stay in one place/on one secondary line for considerable periods but the only way you are likely to find out is from photos because even if you can find coach working programmes most vehicles are not identified by painted number but simply by type.

 

If we now go back to Lampeter the coaches passing through came from either Carmarthen or Aberystwyth and both places had services running on other routes.  Thus some changes were possible but generally the sets working between the two places would be left alone unless a vehicle had to come out for some reason or one was added for strengthening purposes.   Your best bet is to concentrate on vehicle types rather than individual running numbers - because that was what happened in the real world.

[kingfisher9147]

5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Yes and no.  All locations which had an allocation of coaching stock would have whatever were required in terms of vehicles of a particular passenger and/or van capacity plus what was needed to comply with route availability restrictions (which were numerous and complex for longer and wider coaches) and possiblya requirement in some places for vehicles to be either bogie vehicles or - in earlier years - not bogie vehicles.

 

So what a location got was what was needed to meet those criteria,  and they got it from what was available.  Once coachres were allcated to aplace they tended to stay in its workings unless they either needed extra maintenance attention while elsewhere or they were swiped by another location (and possibly replaced by something else.  What this meant in practice was that coaches tended to stay in one place/on one secondary line for considerable periods but the only way you are likely to find out is from photos because even if you can find coach working programmes most vehicles are not identified by painted number but simply by type.

 

If we now go back to Lampeter the coaches passing through came from either Carmarthen or Aberystwyth and both places had services running on other routes.  Thus some changes were possible but generally the sets working between the two places would be left alone unless a vehicle had to come out for some reason or one was added for strengthening purposes.   Your best bet is to concentrate on vehicle types rather than individual running numbers - because that was what happened in the real world.

I would agree with that as well, as it not like locos or heritage railway where they can be easy to trace than some item's.like po wagons as they could disappear without knowledge if sent to some where else with the same name. 

[Nevermakeit]

I believe the signal box at Lampeter was built to standard GW7D.  If this is the case, would that make it the same size as another GW7D box? or would the size depend on the location, and the 'GW7D-ness' be the style only?  Thanks.

[The Stationmaster]

39 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

I believe the signal box at Lampeter was built to standard GW7D.  If this is the case, would that make it the same size as another GW7D box? or would the size depend on the location, and the 'GW7D-ness' be the style only?  Thanks.

The size depended on the length of the lever frame which was in turn a direct result of the number of levers it contained.

[Nevermakeit]

Bother! I thought I had it worked out for a moment! Was there a standard sleeper spacing, so could I work it out from how many sleepers were in front of it? Thanks 

[kingfisher9147]

Also the track plan would also help as you would get a idea of numbers of levels needed, help with size of box.  It is a Gw7D box, when I had a look for a pic. The signal box society says it. https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwm/S2093.htm

Mike

Edited March 6, 2022 by kingfisher9147

[Nick Gough]

Lampeter signal box appears to have three pairs of sliding windows along the front of the operating floor.

In this case I would suggest that it was 25 feet in length (a common size for a type 7) and similar to this preserved example at Winchcombe:

 

This length would have been made up of 7'8" for each pair of windows (between the upright posts), 5" width for the two central upright posts, and 7" width for the two corner posts.

 

The width of these boxes seems to vary, between about 11 feet and 12 feet, but shouldn't be too difficult to calculate from an end photo, knowing that the distance across the two end windows would be 7'8".