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Prototype practice in Lampeter


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  • RMweb Gold
52 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I suspect your opening part is not quite right.  When the pannier first appears it is carrying Class 6 lamps and the signalman is there waiting to take the token (arm held up) so what you describe as Shot 1 is, i suspect, more likely a more distant view of what we see in Shot 2.  I am guessing that the open and van are at the rear of the arriving train next to the brake van.

 

What then happens then is that the whole train apart from the brake van is shunted to the Down Loop - where we see it arriving.  Next a single milk tank is detached at the Carmarthen end and shunted to the Up Siding.  The engine then picks up the brakevan which had been left in the Up Loop clear of the points leading to the Up Siding and shunts it onto what is now the rear of the train standing in the Down Loop and after that the engine runs round ready to depart to Aberayron.

 

None of which has any resemblance whatsoever to the contents of the 1961 WTT ;)  And leaves us with little idea of where it came from :scratchhead:

What is the significance of 'Class 6 lamps' please?  And how does the taking of the token relate to the earlier comment that there was no token exchange equipment at Lampeter?  (Is it because there is no equipment that the signalman is doing it manually?).  Thanks.

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4 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

What is the significance of 'Class 6 lamps' please? 


Class 6 lamps means it is running as an Express Freight with no less than 4 fitted vehicles connected to the locomotive.

 

Normally a pickup goods train would run as class 9.

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  • RMweb Gold
44 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

What is the significance of 'Class 6 lamps' please?  And how does the taking of the token relate to the earlier comment that there was no token exchange equipment at Lampeter?  (Is it because there is no equipment that the signalman is doing it manually?).  Thanks.

The significance of Class 6 lamps - which is rather unusual to say the least on that line - means that it is arriving as a train and not as a local shunting movement.  Similarly it is clearly giving up the single line token to the signalman which also confirms that it is arriving as a train and is not just a shunting movement.   The oddity, although ostensibly not an Express Freight Train (which was Class 6) is that the train is lamped as a Class 6 - most likely because it had sufficient number of wagons ('not less than four') with vacuum brakes connected to the engine so logically it could run as a Class 6.  What we don't know of course is where it has come from?

 

Now to Harlequin's point about the order of shunting and he is absolutely right - my order of moves doesn't fit in its later stage because the milk tank is being shunted (to the Up Siding) after the brakevan has been attached to the Aberayron train..  so the order of moves could be a bit different from what I previously described.  One possibility - although it doesn't make entire sense to me - is that one of the milk tanks and the brakevan were separately stood aside in the siding before the rest of the train was shunted to the Down Loop.  If the brakevan was shunted in first and the milk tank was ten put onto the siding both the tank and the van would have to b e brought out together in order to get the van onto the Carmarthen end of the train and the milk tank was then taken back to the siding. 9which strikes me as an odd way to do the shunt.

 

What we don't know are any more moves and whether or not there were more swop arounds of the milk tanks that we didn't see, including the one already in the sidings?   But still something of a puzzle.

 

PS the south Ground Frame was operated bya. member of station staff or a Signalman.  I suspect it was a hangover from the original situation with two signal boxes and was resolved by connecting the points at that end to the signal box after 1939.

Edited by The Stationmaster
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  • RMweb Gold
12 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

PS the south Ground Frame was operated bya. member of station staff or a Signalman.  I suspect it was a hangover from the original situation with two signal boxes and was resolved by connecting the points at that end to the signal box after 1939.

 

Are you sure about there being a south ground frame? I can't see it on the SRS diagram (I'm logged in as a member and I still can't download a higher res version, grumble, grumble) and Clark doesn't show it either.

 

On Clark's 1958 signalling diagram he shows a note at the south end of the loop: "Weighted fouling bar locks points 7 normal" and he shows a ground frame at the goods yard connection: "Lampeter North G.F. (4 levers working FPL, signals & points. Interlocking lever No. 16)". (See the page I sent via PM.)

 

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  • RMweb Gold
3 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

Are you sure about there being a south ground frame? I can't see it on the SRS diagram (I'm logged in as a member and I still can't download a higher res version, grumble, grumble) and Clark doesn't show it either.

 

On Clark's 1958 signalling diagram he shows a note at the south end of the loop: "Weighted fouling bar locks points 7 normal" and he shows a ground frame at the goods yard connection: "Lampeter North G.F. (4 levers working FPL, signals & points. Interlocking lever No. 16)". (See the page I sent via PM.)

 

Definitely there in 1939 according to the Appendix to the STT.  It worked the loop points!!   However post war, and maybe before that, the south end loop point was definitely worked from the signal box as the rodding is plainly visible in photos and can be seen in the video linked at the top of this thread.

 

I suspect that in 1939 it was some sort of hangover from the earlier signalling and might even have been the original signal box at that end although quite why it was left in place when the distance allowed between a signal box and facing points had been increased to 350 yards c.1925/28 isn't clear.

 

PS I think I've found the explanation - there was definitely only the one signal box at Lampeter in 1911 and if it was the GWR one which appears in later photos and the video at that time it was too far from the south end loop points to work them (assuming they were always in the same position give or take  a few yards or so).  So a ground frame operated those points and was still doing so as late as 1939 which was after Lampeter had taken over Aberayron Jcn and was working it using power operated points.

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16 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

But, especially out in the country, with plenty of warning of whoever might be about,   hair cutting and watch repair were common activities among Signalmen for some unaccountable reason. 

Working at a low  grade box, you had more need to supplement your income that your better paid oppo in the busier junction along the line.  And in a  wayside rural box of course there would be long gaps between trains when you could do such things without leaving the premises. Once you've polished all the brasswork and emptied the Elsan, you still have a fair bit of time to fill.  Hair cutting and watch repairs are moonlighting jobs that only need small tools that are easily hidden when authority was approaching - tools and materials for say shoeing horses or brewing beer might be more difficult to stow out of sight. 

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Some time in the 1970s one of the signalmen on the GC line between Wincobank and Chapletown died in harness. Sheffield Division had to put an advert in the paper asking anyone who had left a watch with him to repair to call in and identify/collect it. 

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  • RMweb Gold
16 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

There are surely the seeds of a new and possibly very entertaining thread here, aren't there?

 

"Signalbox Stories"?

 

 

Some of them would probably bring down the censor very rapidly as they will inevitably include the instances of signalmen on night or late turns entertaining lady friends. And some of those chaps were extremely difficult to catch - we never succeeded with one of ours who we knew was 'at it' although on several occasions we found him in the 'box just wearing his underpants and a pair of plimsolls 'because it was a very hot night'.   Stories of shotguns being kept in more remote signal boxes were not unusual and almost certainly true as were stories of ferrets and traps being used for rabbiting by some Signalmen in quieter moments.  (One of my staff used to go ferreting for rabbits regularly in the 1970s but I'd given him permission to do so and he only did it when off duty).

 

I caught one (rather well known) Signalman holding a tea party in a 'box one Sunday afternoon.  I caught another pair who had changed over at an unofficial time and one was busy copying times into the Train Register off a note written by the one who was going off duty and I suspect that sort of thing might have been far more common than people would like to think.   And of course one particular very minor technical breach of the Regulations (not sending 'Call Attention' before sending 'Train Out of Section') was common among Western men who still preferred the 1960 version of the Regulations to the 1972 version although in some respects that was very much a game as I tried to catch them out while they tried to avoid me catching them out.

 

Using/hiding radios, and in one case a television set :blink: , were common place and it was very amusing to watch the look ona Signalman's face when I arrived to carry out a very thorough inspection of every cupboard - among other things - in the 'box.  Such inspections also revealed some occasional gems  - such as in one case a detonator with a date in the 1940s or very long out of date publications such as a, then 15 year old and long discontinued , WR Regional Appendix which now resides on one of my bookshelves.

 

Ex Somerset & Dorset men - of whom I had several on my patch - were in many respects a law unto themselves and one or two of them got up to all sorts of mischief.

 

Time to get back on track so we'll next look at timetables and associated things.

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  • RMweb Gold

The Timetable.  In reality it is of course a lot more thah a set of train times which are basically a plan of the times at which trains will run  but it might be useful to explain how that plan is arrived at.

 

first there area whole series of physical restraints which derive from the route and infrastructure of the railway.  The length of block sections (the stretch of line between signal boxes) and the number of lines impose a number of constraints, for example a single line obviously cannot be used at the same time by trains travelling in opposite directions.  Thus the number of lines will set a constraint on the number of trains which which can be run at any one time.  The length of block sections and the time taken for a each type to of train to travel through them will set a limit on the maximum frequency which could be theoretically, and practically, achieved on a route passing over those block sections and in some cases the method of signalling can also have an impact but in the case of Carmarthen - Aberystwuyth we are looking at block sections which use a form of Absolute Block meaning there can only be one train in one block section at a time.

 

The time taken to pass through a block section is influenced by a number of other factors - gradients and curvature affect the maximum achievable speed for each type of train as does the type of locomotove used and the tonnage it will be hauling.  all of these factors are used to calculate the point-to-point  (= P-P) running time (known nowadays as the Sectional Running Time = SRT) for each type of train which will use the route and the load which it can convey.  

 

(G)WR practice was to use what were known as 'Standard Times' for passenger trains  and then quote different loads for different classes of engine which were set to ensure that with that maximum load taht engine would achieve teh timetabled running time.  Over any particular route the physical characteristics of the route would affect the load.  Thus for Carmarthen - Aberystwyth using the 1963 loads a 78XX ('Manor') class engine was allowed 240 tons from Carmarthen to Pencader and 215 tons from Pencader to Aberystwyth so effectively for through Down train the load was restricted to 215 tons.  But the much smaller 74XX tank engine was oly allowed 168 tons and 156 tons respectively for those two section.   In the opposite direction the governing factor was the rising gradients between Aberystwyth and Strata Florida which restricted the 78XX load to 200 tons (Note *)  compared with the 240 tons allowed between Strata Florida and Carmarthen.    Note *. This could be increased to 220 tons fora train not calling at Caradog Falls Halt.

 

For freight trains a different system was used - rather more complicated than talking in tons as we will see in alater post but again the same principal sapllied - bigger engine = heavier permitted load.

 

The next factor affecting how a timetable was ut together was the commercial need for different types of train at particular times - for example a passenger train might be run at a time toi suit getting children to./from school at a certain place.  But other things can affect the shape of the timetable ex specially on single lines as trains going in opposite direction can only cross (i.e. pass each other) at a limited number of places so the timetable has to be built around that as well.  Much of this knowledge was built up over the years and it also depended on total demand with differences for varying days of the week and things such as market days and - increasingly over the years - Bank Holidays.  what was called the permanent timetable took a fairly wide brush approach to some of this and it suited most needs most of the time and on the western tended to stay relatively fixed for many years with only minor variations in times.   Thisis what was published in the STT/WTT and the public timetable.  And is basically the only readily accessible source of information.

 

However to deal with particular, unusual events - such as a Bank Holiday or some special occasion the permanent timetable would be varied by what was known as 'special traffic arrangements - published to the staff on weekly or daily Special Traffic Notices and to the public by ewither supplements to teh timetable or in soem cases by a special handbill.  Finding this sort of information is 100% dependable on luck and in some cases having a good browse at the Public Record Office or in some cases local museum/library collections.

 

Right that, somewhat simplified down to teh basics is how a timetable is put together.  the next thing I will be loking at is what other work has to be done to produce something more than lots of times on pieces of papaer - i.e. to actually run a train service.

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  • RMweb Gold
53 minutes ago, RJS1977 said:

Or there's always this method:

 

image.png.85fc87a441620badfe61343c989c4538.png

You mean to say there are other ways of establishing running times? :jester:   Although in reality in the early days it was done using trains rather than blokes running.   Even in the 1990s we were still sometimes our t and about, or sending an inspector out if there appeared to be a problem in trains running to time but we rarely found that it was down to the running times wheere they had been accurately calculated.  However the earliest timetable in my collection does give approximate arrival times in some cases - but only for connecting stage coaches ;)

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  • RMweb Gold
5 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

But the much smaller 74XX tank engine was oly allowed 168 tons and 156 tons respectively for those two section.  

So the 74XX tank engine would also be used on passenger services? 

 

Would it be likely that a train to 168 tons would run part of the way, and then part dropped off for the rest of the journey?

 

Thanks.

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  • RMweb Gold
3 hours ago, Nevermakeit said:

So the 74XX tank engine would also be used on passenger services? 

 

Would it be likely that a train to 168 tons would run part of the way, and then part dropped off for the rest of the journey?

 

Thanks.

Unlikely with passenger trains on that route because as far as I can trace there never seems to have been any situa tions where coaches were detached from through trains r to run overa branch as part ofa branch train.  And in any case phots indicate that the passenger trains only consisted or two or three coaches although no doubt the through Cardiff - Aberystwyth train which ran in summers between the wars was probably up to maximum load/length.

 

We'll come back to timetables looking at hw the various things I mentioned above could at one time be found in considerable detail in the STTs/WTTs but before I do that i'll look a biyt further at how a train service was created.

 

The timetable was normally used as the basis  (but theere were alternatives) for working out how many engines and coaches were needed to run the passenger service and how many brakevans were needed for freight trains.  The wagons on the freights were a consequence of the traffic on offer so didn't need any other sort of decision about how many were needed.  For engine working the timetable was teh bare bones and gave the tnmes at which engines would be needed at a train's statring point in order to cover all the services.  Obviously the weight of train would decide if aoarticular type of engne would be needed for s each train but on this route trans were fairly consistent in terms of size r the task was simpler. This process is know an diagramming and is built aroiunfd making sure that all trains are covered and it is done in themost efficient manner.  It is called diagramming because the original way of doing it, and still the best way, is to draw a diagram - effectively a sort of bar chart - where each train becomes a horizontal line with its origin departure time at one end and oits destnation arrival time at the other end.  thus you can see at a. glance not only when an engine is needed to start a trainbut also when it will  again become available (subject to the time needed for servicing() after arrival at the destination.  The same process is carried out for engines working freight trains and it could also be used to establish how many freight brakevans needed to allocated to a yard or station

 

Exactly the same process is used to create the workings for passenger coaches but they have the big advantage that on arrival at the destination they can be turned round more rapidly thjan a steam engine so could be used more efficiently if the timetable allowed.  The results for both coaches (formed as trains) and engines are presented solely in written format as times against [lace names plus various notes.

 

One thing which might become apparent here ias that as a trainservice is diagrammed it can become apparent that it nmight be feasible witha bit of retiming to use these resources on a return train if it was retimed to depart XX minutes later.  This is heading towards what is calleda 'resource led' timetable where the timetable is buklt around a know level of resources and that sets the interval between trains that can be achieved in the timetable.  This became far more important with dieselistaion because generally diesel trains can have much shorter turn rounds than se team engines so you can either work out the size of fleet you need to order or, ideally first develop your trainplan (the timetable and the diagrams combined) and look at dfferent potential train fleet sizes to givce different levels of frequency and order the trains accordingly.

 

A similar process is also used to work out the number of traincrews you need to operate your service but in taht case there are all sorts of constraints in the Conditions of Emploment for. staff which have to be taken into account so drawing up teh diagrams needs a lot of ackground knowledge.  Once the diagrams are drawn and the number of crews they require at each depot is known the next step is to calculate g howmnay people you actually bneed to civer that diagrammed work because the length of the worl king week is constrained, people can go off sick, or need to be trained so you always need more people than you might think.  The way we used to do it on the WR was to count the number of diagram days (number of diagrams x the number of days on which each diagram operated and divide the resultant number by a set divisor to calculate how many people uyou needed to cover the work.

 

Little of this applies on a model trailway but if you want realistic train and engine working you could use a WTT to give you an indication of when a train passng Lampeter in omne direction would reappear travelling in the opposite direction.   Coach working fdiagrams - know over the years by varuious different names such as 'Carriage Working Notices' etc can sometimes be found but engine diagrams are very rarely seen

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  • RMweb Gold
7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Unlikely with passenger trains on that route because as far as I can trace there never seems to have been any situa tions where coaches were detached from through trains r to run overa branch as part ofa branch train.  And in any case phots indicate that the passenger trains only consisted or two or three coaches although no doubt the through Cardiff - Aberystwyth train which ran in summers between the wars was probably up to maximum load/length.

 

We'll come back to timetables looking at hw the various things I mentioned above could at one time be found in considerable detail in the STTs/WTTs but before I do that i'll look a biyt further at how a train service was created.

 

The timetable was normally used as the basis  (but theere were alternatives) for working out how many engines and coaches were needed to run the passenger service and how many brakevans were needed for freight trains.  The wagons on the freights were a consequence of the traffic on offer so didn't need any other sort of decision about how many were needed.  For engine working the timetable was teh bare bones and gave the tnmes at which engines would be needed at a train's statring point in order to cover all the services.  Obviously the weight of train would decide if aoarticular type of engne would be needed for s each train but on this route trans were fairly consistent in terms of size r the task was simpler. This process is know an diagramming and is built aroiunfd making sure that all trains are covered and it is done in themost efficient manner.  It is called diagramming because the original way of doing it, and still the best way, is to draw a diagram - effectively a sort of bar chart - where each train becomes a horizontal line with its origin departure time at one end and oits destnation arrival time at the other end.  thus you can see at a. glance not only when an engine is needed to start a trainbut also when it will  again become available (subject to the time needed for servicing() after arrival at the destination. 

Thanks for this - it is really interesting to know how it was done.  What would be the normal time allowed for servicing a steam locomotive for a return journey, or would it depend on the type of engine, length of journey etc?  Would the same engines tend to be allocated to the same route, or would an engine arriving from Carmarthen at Aberystwyth then be diagrammed for (eg) Shrewsbury?

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  • RMweb Gold

Thanks for a very informative thread.

 

19 hours ago, Harlequin said:

There are surely the seeds of a new and possibly very entertaining thread here, aren't there?

 

"Signalbox Stories"?

 

I enjoyed Kevin Robertson's "Burghclere signalman". Not that you'll find much drama there, they are stories of the everyday: 

 

http://www.crecy.co.uk/burghclere-signalman

 

His "Winchester" book is similar, but deals with life and operations at that station more generally.

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10 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Unlikely with passenger trains on that route because as far as I can trace there never seems to have been any situa tions where coaches were detached from through trains r to run overa branch as part ofa branch train.  And in any case phots indicate that the passenger trains only consisted or two or three coaches although no doubt the through Cardiff - Aberystwyth train which ran in summers between the wars was probably up to maximum load/length.

 

 

There was also for a time a through Swansea- Pen-y-chain (for Butlin's) service which I would imagine was similarly loaded.

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2 hours ago, Nevermakeit said:

Thanks for this - it is really interesting to know how it was done.  What would be the normal time allowed for servicing a steam locomotive for a return journey, or would it depend on the type of engine, length of journey etc?  Would the same engines tend to be allocated to the same route, or would an engine arriving from Carmarthen at Aberystwyth then be diagrammed for (eg) Shrewsbury?

 

Unless there was a shortage of suitable motive power at Aberystwyth, I would imagine that workings were arranged such that locos returned whence they came (i.e. Carmarthen based locos would be returned there and Shrewsbury/Oswestry locos returned to their respective depots).

 

For one thing, locos were normally allocated to a particular shed and remained there, usually for years, with the shed crew knowing the mechanical status of the loco. For another, the crews would need to get back home, and again it was preferable for them to drive the locos they knew.

 

Obviously locos based at Aberystwyth could be used on either route as the need arose.

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  • RMweb Gold

Steam engine turn-round time fell into two categories and they deended on how long they were into their working day and the mileage they had covered/length of time they had been in traffic.   Servicing at its simplest level meant oiling (which ideally needed a pit for GWR engines with inside valvegear although you could get at some of it 'over the top' (of the running plate; water - they used lots of it; coal - the size of the tender/bunker limited the distance an engine could work before it had to go on shed for coal; keeping the fire in good shape and cleaning it after, in many cases, the working day including emptying the ashpan.

 

On a turnround job the amount of work needed was not too much - oiling, water, and fire cleaning, and possibly coal so an hour or two would be sufficient, sometimes less.  but at the end of the working day far more attention would need to be given to cleaning, and probably dropping, the fire which would take longer and mean joining a queue on shed with other engines plus coaling and  taking water before going into teh shed for any attention from the fitters or boilersmiths.  So effectively overnight.

 

But on this particular there are some other factors - firstly the length of working day (basically 8 hours for footplatemen by the 1960s) so the freight trains which took about that time or more to get from one end of teh route to the other either changed crews part way (the timetable will show if that was feasible) or a crew had to lodge at the other end and work back the next day.  I don't know which applied on this route but I can remember talking to the enginemen on a Carmarthen train at Aberystwyth and they spoke with local (to aberystwyth) accents - not that it tells us much ;)   But if a crew did l;ode overnight they would usuall return with their own engine the next day.  So there are some unanswered questuions I unless they show up anywhere in a book.

 

An item for 'Harlequin' on the subject of the South Ground Frame.  I've got a liuttle bit about the Manchester & Milford in a book which I read up last night as I haven't looked at it for a good long while.  It says that the M&M signal boxes were very small structures with relatively few levers - about 6 to 11 or so.   That suggests to me that the South Ground Frame at Lampeter was possibly the original signal box working that end of the loop and was retained because - as I've said previously - the facing points were too far from the new GWR built signal box.

 

To get full benefit from what comes next you ideally need to download a particular WTT from the Michael Clemens site go first to this page

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/article/working-timetables/553

 

Then click on the link to List A 1957 -1964 and click on this link

http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=589

 

Download all three of the PDF files listed in the panel at top right.  Admittedly this is a freight only book but it provides a fairly straightforward introduction to what you can find in such publication.

 

 

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  • RMweb Gold

Using the example I've linked above we;ll now look at w WTT to see what t sort of information they were providing at the time this particular one was published.  It is important to know that the ampount of information shown in an STT/WTT varied between the Companies/BR Regions and it was also gradually reduced over the years as a lot of the things you will find listed below were gradually transferred to other publications.  When I completely revised the method of publishing WR Freight WTTs in the early 1990s the only things which remained compared with earlier one such as this were the explanatory notes and the actual tabular pages for train times - by then everything else had already been taken out of the WTTs   and I also drastically altered the area each book covered as well as changing over to discontinuing supplements and simple reissuing the WTTs every 8 weeks - having them printed on a copying machine instead of going out to a printer - they were simply folded sheets of A4 paper stapled together.

 

The other thing you need to know is that supplements to WTTs were produced at regular intervals so what you fill find below is the book as originally printed and its contents might have been permanently altered by a supplement or amended on various occasions for a short term or special reason by a Notice.

 

To the book and we are looking at what in 1961 was section F of the WR WTTs and this book only deals with freight trains, at that time a separate book was published for passenger trains.  all the page numbers are accordingly prefixed F.

 

Page 1 contains the index - self a explanatory as I shall be listing all the pages that are relevant.

Page 2 is important as it explains the various notes and references used in the tabular pages which show the times.  It is important to note that some of these changed over teh years so if you are looking at other timetables you should always first check the notes in use at that times.  For example in 1961 (and still until recent years) the letter 'Q' means 'Runs When Required' but if you go back over the years you will find that used to be shown using the letters 'RR'

Page 4 shows the use of letters and some numbers used in the 4 Character headcode system

Now to the nitty gritty -

Page 105  Down trains between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth or intermediately including the Newcastle Emlyn branch (but not Aberayron)

Page 106  Up trains

Page 110  Lampeter to Aberayron and return.  including a note about the Electric Train Staff sections and the level crossings

Page 127/8 List of Signal Boxes for this route.  The times they are open effectively show the times at which the line was open.

Page 138   Time allowances for Freight Trains

Page 151    Engine Loads For freight trains  (the system was complex and will be explained separately)

Page 155.   Standard Speed Restrictions

Page 163/4. Soeed restrictions Specific to the Route

Page 189 Engine Restrictions. (will be expleined later)

Page 199 et seq Calculating Loads of freight trains (will be explained later)

Page 209 Length of various NPCCS vehicles

Page 211. Special Instructions for the working of the route particularly crossing stations. (can also be explained further

 

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  • RMweb Gold

Engine Loads - The GWR, and continuing onto the WR for steam traction classified the power of its engines by a system based ion calculated tractive effort grpouped into a series of letters to identify each group.  the groups were as follows :-

Ungrouped.  Tractive effort (TE) not exceedng 16,500lbs

Group A.        TE not exceeding 18,500 lbs

Group B.        TE not exceeding 20,500 lbs

group C.         TE not exceeding 25,000 lbs

Group D.        TE not exceeding 33,000lbs

Group E.        TE not exceeding 38,000 lbs

Special.          TE above 38,000 lbs

 

For practical purposes the important part was the Power Group and a minimum Power Group would be specified for many freight trains, especially longer distance workings.  The Group was shown by a painted letter (or no letter at all for Ungrouped) usually immediately above the Route Availability disc.  

 

A different system was used for passenger, mail and milk etc trains where the total permissible trailing load was specified in tons by engine class and from 1927 inwards the company published an official Loads Book containing this information but it was also sometimes repeated in the STTs/WTTs.

 

Engine Restrictions and Route Availability - these fell into two categores.  the first of these was Route Availability and every route on the GWR and WR (until the late 1960s) was allocated a colour code depending on the maximum permitted axleweight (of an engine) the route could take.  This code was as follows:-

Uncoloured    Axle load up to 14 tons

Yellow.                  "           "         16 tons

Blue                       "          "          17 tons 13 cwt

Red                  All engines over 17tons 12 cwt axleload except 'King' Class

Double Red    'King' class  Axleload 22tons 10cwts 

 

The Route Availability was indicated buy a coloured disc panted  on the cab sidesheet or bunker in the case of many tank engine classes.  In addition to the above colours the Route Availability maps used other combinations - 'Hatched red' related to the 'King' class and their Double Red restriction.  Dotted Red came between Red and VBlue and meant the toute could be used by Red classified engines at a maximum speed of 20 mph,  Dotted Blue came between Blue and Yellow and meant  a route could be used by Blue classified engines at a maximum speed of 25 mph.  in addition there were cases where specific classes of engines were authorised to run over routes which were in a lower classification.

 

The other part of route availability related to physical clearance and this was included in the tables shown at one time in the STT/WTT and subsequently in the Route Availability Booklet and this might prohibit or permit specific classes of engine in certain sidings etc or restrict their speed in certain places  - perhaps over a bridge for example-

 

Freight Train Loads - The GWr classified freight vehicles into three numbered groups according to their weight and used equated totals for show the permitted load fora particular engine  Power Group over various sections of the route according to gradients etc,  For calculation purposes, should you be so inclined,  these groups equated as follows in terms of gross weight  tons:-

Vehicle loaded wih Class 1 traffic -16tons per wagon

Vehicle loaded with Class 2 traffic - 13 tons per wagon 

Vehicle loaded with Class 3 traffic - 10 tons per wagon

Empty 4 wheel wagon - 6 tons

 

Milk Train/Vehicle Loads

 

Importantly for thos route Milk Tanks were 14 tons empty, 28 tons laded

 

Vans conveying milk traffic. had a tonnage, for loaded or emoty churns, added to the vehicle tare weight varying with the carrying capacity of the vehicle between.5 tons (empty churns, most bogie vehicle types) and 10 tons (full churns, most bogie vehicle types).

 

Note re Special Instructions -

 

The important things here are the electric Token Sections and the locations at which trains of different types can cross each other.  At a number of places on the route a looped sif ding allowed for a freight train to be held in order to allow a passenger, or freight, train to cross it.  But this was not possible if both trains were passenger trains because the looped sifdings were not signalled to passenger trains standards..

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1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

Engine Loads - The GWR, and continuing onto the WR for steam traction classified the power of its engines by a system based ion calculated tractive effort grpouped into a series of letters to identify each group.  the groups were as follows :-

Ungrouped.  Tractive effort (TE) not exceedng 16,500lbs

Group A.        TE not exceeding 18,500 lbs

Group B.        TE not exceeding 20,500 lbs

group C.         TE not exceeding 25,000 lbs

Group D.        TE not exceeding 33,000lbs

Group E.        TE not exceeding 38,000 lbs

Special.          TE above 38,000 lbs

 

For practical purposes the important part was the Power Group and a minimum Power Group would be specified for many freight trains, especially longer distance workings.  The Group was shown by a painted letter (or no letter at all for Ungrouped) usually immediately above the Route Availability disc.  

 

A different system was used for passenger, mail and milk etc trains where the total permissible trailing load was specified in tons by engine class and from 1927 inwards the company published an official Loads Book containing this information but it was also sometimes repeated in the STTs/WTTs.

 

Engine Restrictions and Route Availability - these fell into two categores.  the first of these was Route Availability and every route on the GWR and WR (until the late 1960s) was allocated a colour code depending on the maximum permitted axleweight (of an engine) the route could take.  This code was as follows:-

Uncoloured    Axle load up to 14 tons

Yellow.                  "           "         16 tons

Blue                       "          "          17 tons 13 cwt

Red                  All engines over 17tons 12 cwt axleload except 'King' Class

Double Red    'King' class  Axleload 22tons 10cwts 

 

The Route Availability was indicated buy a coloured disc panted  on the cab sidesheet or bunker in the case of many tank engine classes.  In addition to the above colours the Route Availability maps used other combinations - 'Hatched red' related to the 'King' class and their Double Red restriction.  Dotted Red came between Red and VBlue and meant the toute could be used by Red classified engines at a maximum speed of 20 mph,  Dotted Blue came between Blue and Yellow and meant  a route could be used by Blue classified engines at a maximum speed of 25 mph.  in addition there were cases where specific classes of engines were authorised to run over routes which were in a lower classification.

 

The other part of route availability related to physical clearance and this was included in the tables shown at one time in the STT/WTT and subsequently in the Route Availability Booklet and this might prohibit or permit specific classes of engine in certain sidings etc or restrict their speed in certain places  - perhaps over a bridge for example-

 

Freight Train Loads - The GWr classified freight vehicles into three numbered groups according to their weight and used equated totals for show the permitted load fora particular engine  Power Group over various sections of the route according to gradients etc,  For calculation purposes, should you be so inclined,  these groups equated as follows in terms of gross weight  tons:-

Vehicle loaded wih Class 1 traffic -16tons per wagon

Vehicle loaded with Class 2 traffic - 13 tons per wagon 

Vehicle loaded with Class 3 traffic - 10 tons per wagon

Empty 4 wheel wagon - 6 tons

 

Milk Train/Vehicle Loads

 

Importantly for thos route Milk Tanks were 14 tons empty, 28 tons laded

 

Vans conveying milk traffic. had a tonnage, for loaded or emoty churns, added to the vehicle tare weight varying with the carrying capacity of the vehicle between.5 tons (empty churns, most bogie vehicle types) and 10 tons (full churns, most bogie vehicle types).

 

Note re Special Instructions -

 

The important things here are the electric Token Sections and the locations at which trains of different types can cross each other.  At a number of places on the route a looped sif ding allowed for a freight train to be held in order to allow a passenger, or freight, train to cross it.  But this was not possible if both trains were passenger trains because the looped sifdings were not signalled to passenger trains standards..

It all sounds very complicated! I can't imagine people would want to change the timetable very often! :)

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I don't know if this will add anything to Mike's excellent explanations but Lampeter itself is featured in vol 1 of the OPC published "Great Western Stations, Layouts and Illustratons" by  R.C. Clark. It includes a topographical scale plan for 1913 and a signalling diagram for 1958.  

I assume these are copyright so I can't post them here (but can scan them)

According to the topographical plan, the goods yard to the west of the running lines did indeed join the running line beyond the down (Aberytwyth) end of the aprox 1200ft long passing loop and had a total of five roads, The first, directly alongside the running lines must have just been used for shunting as it was directly followed by the goods shed road. Behind that with an appropriate space between them was what I assume was the first mileage siding, then a slightly narrower space followed by two sidings close together with a 6 ton crane behind the far siding. 

It doesn't show coal staiths though i'm sure they were there somewhere. 

 

From the up (Carmarthon) side of the loop, with its  entry points almost opposite the  signal box was a trailing siding, about 360ft long clear of its catch points, that served a set of cattle pens accessed from a gated track  that appears to lead to an accomodation crossing that crossed the running lines within the loops and then two of the goods yard points before reaching a gate on the down side . It occurs to me that this "accomodation crossing" may have been given access to the cattle pens from both sides of the site, kept separate from the station and goods yard entrance.  M.Hale's accompanying photo from 1962  shows a warehouse type building alongside the far end of the cattle siding which may well have been a provender store for local farmers. On the up side of the main station building so separated from the goods yard by the station access road were saw mills.

The station also had rather a lot of pump houses, one large one for the saw mills, one at the end of the cattle siding and one or two for the loco dept. who had a water tank set about forty yards back from the up platform. 

According to the 1958 signalling diagram the entrance to the goods yard was controlled by a 14 lever ground frame working the F.P,L. signals and points (possibly only the slotting for signals unless there were ground signals not shown on the plan. 

None of this explains why the goods yard was directly off the single track running line, necessitating and FPL etc. rather than a simpler trailing connection from the Aberystwyth side of the passing loop. Looking at the topography, it's possible that this wouldn't have given an adequate run off from the trap points.  That arrangement would also have placed the loop points about 960-1000 ft from the signalbox.

 

Edited by Pacific231G
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