Prototype practice in Lampeter

[The Stationmaster]

5 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

Going back to my unhealthy obsession with wagon movements, if a vehicle with a load for the provender store arrived, would it be unloaded fairly quickly, and moved elsewhere to await collection, or would it sit on the mileage siding until picked up? If it sat there, and further wagons for that siding arrived, what would be the most likely movement for it? I assume that wagons would be in and out of the goods shed fairly promptly? Or was it all a bit more ad hoc than I would like to think? Thanks. 

Normally unloaded fairly quickly - for two reasons.  Firstly to make sure it wasn't subsequently in the way and secondly to avoid incurring demurrage charges (not that they were very much).

 

The way shed traffic was dealt with was probably in much the way that happen ed elsewhere - as wagons arrived they would be shunted onto the goods shed siding with the earliest arrival shunted into the shed ready for unloading.  As wagons were unloaded (but only if more were expected) they'd be moved out of the way to the siding beyond the shed itself - that would be done using a pinch bar to get the wagon(s) moving.    Once all the inwards wagons had been unloaded some would be retained in the shed empty ready to load outwards traffic (which probably wasn't very much depending on local industry etc).

 

If there was a train in time to take away loaded wagons it would shunt them out, plus any empties. However as most freight ran in the morning/early afternoon it's quite likely that outwards loaded wagons weren't cleared until the following day so they and any empties would have to be set aside before any inwards loaded wagons could be positioned.  By the late 1950s (possibly earlier) a place like Lampeter would probably be 'making' far more outwards empties than loaded wagons. 

[Nevermakeit]

9 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The way shed traffic was dealt with was probably in much the way that happen ed elsewhere - as wagons arrived they would be shunted onto the goods shed siding with the earliest arrival shunted into the shed ready for unloading.  As wagons were unloaded (but only if more were expected) they'd be moved out of the way to the siding beyond the shed itself - that would be done using a pinch bar to get the wagon(s) moving.    Once all the inwards wagons had been unloaded some would be retained in the shed empty ready to load outwards traffic (which probably wasn't very much depending on local industry etc).

So if there were two or three vehicles arriving for the goods shed on one train, would they be uncoupled individually then shunted, or would the group be shunted so that the first one was in position, and then uncoupled and moved manually by pinchbar as it was unloaded? Thanks 

[Pacific231G]

16 hours ago, Harlequin said:

The multiple conical(?) supports suggest that whatever those bodies were , they are being used as provender stores at the time of the photograph.

I agree. I'd interpreted them as being posts surrounding grounded bodies but looking at them again I think your interpetation is the right one and they look like the typical concrete piles used to keep provender stores  above the ground and away from damp and rodents. We know that there was a massive increase in farming activity during and after the war, before which agriculture had become quite run down, so the need to provide such facilities with whatever was available would have been quite urgent. Were the various "depots" that appear on later maps what replaced them I wonder?

[The Stationmaster]

3 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

So if there were two or three vehicles arriving for the goods shed on one train, would they be uncoupled individually then shunted, or would the group be shunted so that the first one was in position, and then uncoupled and moved manually by pinchbar as it was unloaded? Thanks 

They'd all be shunted together - gettig as many as possible into the shed opposite the platform (at least two would have fitted - Shunters never made extra work for themselves.  it might be a bit difficult to start three using pinchbars (and it would definitely be a lot harder to stop them once they were rolling) so they would then be split.

[Michael Hodgson]

57 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The large building is not 'WB' - that will apply to the msall rectangle in lighter type opposite that building.  WB means weighbridge and was where road vehicles coming into or out of the yard would be weighed in order to assess the weight of the load.  The weighbridge probably also functioned as a public weighbridge - for which the railway charged any users,.

Lorries used to have lettering on the side as to what they weighed in tons, cwt, quarters and lbs, which I understood to be a former legal requirement.  Obviously the actual weight would vary according to what the driver was carrying in his cab, toolbox etc, so was that weight ever used to determine the load, or was it always a case of weigh the vehicle before & after loading? 

 

I can't see anybody worrying too much about a couple of pounds discrepancy in a 10T load of coal that had travelled 137 3/4 miles.  What level of accuracy was required for calculations on how much the railway should charge? 

[Nevermakeit]

23 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

They'd all be shunted together - gettig as many as possible into the shed opposite the platform (at least two would have fitted - Shunters never made extra work for themselves.  it might be a bit difficult to start three using pinchbars (and it would definitely be a lot harder to stop them once they were rolling) so they would then be split.

Difficult to model pinchbarring though, without the great hand from the sky! 

[Michael Hodgson]

12 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

Difficult to model pinchbarring though, without the great hand from the sky! 

Same goes for a shunter's pole.  However it should be possible to produce a 3D printed figure holding one in the correct position to produced a posed view.  After all we've quite happy to stick a little uniformed man with a green flag on the platform or a bloke in overalls with a shovel on the footplate.   

 

[Nevermakeit]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Same goes for a shunter's pole.  However it should be possible to produce a 3D printed figure holding one in the correct position to produced a posed view.  After all we've quite happy to stick a little uniformed man with a green flag on the platform or a bloke in overalls with a shovel on the footplate.   

 

I would be happy to assume that the man with the pinchbar is in the shed out of sight - it would be getting wagon to roll out on its own that would be the problem! 

[Nevermakeit]

23 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

 

Does anyone have any ideas about the light area to the left of the goods shed? It looks as though it is a thin awning or billboard or similar, but I don't know why it would be there. 

Edited June 21, 2021 by Nevermakeit
Corrected yard to shed.

[Harlequin]

On 21/06/2021 at 14:08, Nevermakeit said:

Does anyone have any ideas about the light area to the left of the goods yard? It looks as though it is a thin awning or billboard or similar, but I don't know why it would be there. 

 

Here's my interpretation:

 

You can see the curve of the wall and how the large building tucks in close to it on the 1973 map Martin posted above. The curve is visible on Clark's 1913 map but the building isn't.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Harlequin

[Michael Hodgson]

29 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

I would be happy to assume that the man with the pinchbar is in the shed out of sight - it would be getting wagon to roll out on its own that would be the problem! 

That's easy - motorise the wagon.  I seem to recall K's doing a kit years ago.

[Nevermakeit]

31 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

Here's my interpretation:

 

You can see the curve of the wall and how the large building tucks in close to it on the 1973 map Martin posted above. The curve is visible on Clark's 1913 map but the building isn't.

 

Sorry, my mistake! I meant to the left of the goods shed, not yard! The perspective on it seems a bit odd. Thanks for this, though - it helps relate all the bits together. 

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, Nevermakeit said:

Does anyone have any ideas about the light area to the left of the goods shed? It looks as though it is a thin awning or billboard or similar, but I don't know why it would be there. 

It looks like another building but with a shed rather than a gable roof. For a quietish country station Lampeter does seem to have had a particularly large number of different buildings over the years.

Looking at this one station, its traffic and operation in some detail seems to have yielded a mass of fascinating information (well I've been fascinated by it) . The horse fair- while it was there, the agricultural show and it being a junction for a sub- branch serving milk factories are particular but I'm wondering if Lampeter was unusual or whether you'd find the same sort of thing if you looked in equal depth at many  stations serving smallish market towns. I was intrigued (to the point of going to bed late) by the memories of farmers with no particular interest in railways who themselves or more often their fathers or grandfathers had used it.

[ejstubbs]

2 hours ago, Nevermakeit said:

Sorry, my mistake! I meant to the left of the goods shed

 

I take it you mean the thing picked out with the red arrow here:

 

 

No idea what it is, though, I'm afraid.

 

19 hours ago, Aire Head said:

That looks like 3 cattle vans and 2 Horseboxes to my eyes.

 

I agree with the three cattle wagons.  I thought the next one could have been a horsebox but I wasn't sure.  The last one looks different again, perhaps with a lower roof, so maybe not a horsebox?  But I am very far from being an expert at identifying GWR rolling stock.

 

The wagon I though looked like it might be a brake van is separate from those wagons, adjacent to the small building at the south end of the up siding:

 

[Aire Head]

2 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

I take it you mean the thing picked out with the red arrow here:

 

 

No idea what it is, though, I'm afraid.

 

 

I agree with the three cattle wagons.  I thought the next one could have been a horsebox but I wasn't sure.  The last one looks different again, perhaps with a lower roof, so maybe not a horsebox?  But I am very far from being an expert at identifying GWR rolling stock.

 

The wagon I though looked like it might be a brake van is separate from those wagons, adjacent to the small building at the south end of the up siding:

 

Could be A GWR beetle or a horsebox from another railway?

 

I agree the wagon by the goods shed could be a brake van

[Nevermakeit]

2 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

I take it you mean the thing picked out with the red arrow here:

 

Yes, that's the thing. Seems a bit flat, doesn't it, but may just be the angle? 

[Nevermakeit]

22 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

Could be A GWR beetle or a horsebox from another railway?

 

I agree the wagon by the goods shed could be a brake van

What would a beetle be used for, please? 

[Aire Head]

23 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

What would a beetle be used for, please? 

Beetle is the telegraph code for a “prize cattle wagon” which is very similar to a horse box.

 

They were used for transporting more valuable animals (think prize bull) and had facilities for a groom to travel on board.

 

[Fat Controller]

2 hours ago, Aire Head said:

Beetle is the telegraph code for a “prize cattle wagon” which is very similar to a horse box.

 

They were used for transporting more valuable animals (think prize bull) and had facilities for a groom to travel on board.

 

Rendered obsolete by the vacuum flask....

[Nevermakeit]

13 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

The wagon I though looked like it might be a brake van is separate from those wagons, adjacent to the small building at the south end of the up siding:

 

Does the presence of a lone brake van suggest that shunting is going on somewhere?  Is there any other reason why it might be there?  Thanks.

[Aire Head]

47 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

Does the presence of a lone brake van suggest that shunting is going on somewhere?  Is there any other reason why it might be there?  Thanks.

Potentially from what we would call an unbalanced working.

 

A goods train that terminated at Lampeter with no corresponding return working meaning the brake van was left there until the next opportunity to send it.

[The Stationmaster]

21 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Lorries used to have lettering on the side as to what they weighed in tons, cwt, quarters and lbs, which I understood to be a former legal requirement.  Obviously the actual weight would vary according to what the driver was carrying in his cab, toolbox etc, so was that weight ever used to determine the load, or was it always a case of weigh the vehicle before & after loading? 

 

I can't see anybody worrying too much about a couple of pounds discrepancy in a 10T load of coal that had travelled 137 3/4 miles.  What level of accuracy was required for calculations on how much the railway should charge? 

Normal practice was to tare weigh the vehicle before it was loaded (or after it had been unloaded)and weigh it when underload.   However I doubt if quite so much attention was paid to railway owned vehicles once that had been check weighed to make sure the tare weight was accurately shown.

 

And of course weighing wasn't necessary for all vehicles - it really depended on whether the load of the vehicle would be going as outwards traffic where the charge was based on weight or for 'to pay' inwards traffic or (in a railway owned vehicle) where the delivery charge was based on weight or there was a need to check the load was legal.   Most  full load traffic, certainly in later years, was never weighed at the receiving station and increasingly outwards traffic wasn't weighed either when teh charge had moved from per ton to per wagonload. 

 

3 hours ago, Nevermakeit said:

Does the presence of a lone brake van suggest that shunting is going on somewhere?  Is there any other reason why it might be there?  Thanks.

No doubt indicates that shunting is underway.  W As far as the booked working was concerned there were no unbalanced freight trains at Lampeter and none booked to terminate there.  It might be off a special (although quite what for I'm not sure) but i think it has most likely been stood aside for some reason. If it has been left there one also has to ask what had happened to the Guard who, at the date that photo was taken, should have left that brakevan locked up before going wherever he went so nobody else could have moved it.

[Nevermakeit]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

If it has been left there one also has to ask what had happened to the Guard who, at the date that photo was taken, should have left that brakevan locked up before going wherever he went so nobody else could have moved it.

Is it possible to tell from the photograph whether it is locked or unlocked? Would the guard normally have stayed with the van whilst shunting was taking place, rather than assisting with the process? Thanks. 

[The Stationmaster]

5 minutes ago, Nevermakeit said:

Is it possible to tell from the photograph whether it is locked or unlocked? Would the guard normally have stayed with the van whilst shunting was taking place, rather than assisting with the process? Thanks. 

Impossible to tell from a photo.  If it had been shunted aside while shunting was taking place the Guard would have been involved in the shunting work as would have been the case with all freight trains shunting at Lampeter although there would almost inevitably have been staff there who were qualified to undertake shunting work.

[Nevermakeit]

15 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Impossible to tell from a photo.  If it had been shunted aside while shunting was taking place the Guard would have been involved in the shunting work as would have been the case with all freight trains shunting at Lampeter although there would almost inevitably have been staff there who were qualified to undertake shunting work.

Would the lock be something highly visible (like a chain on the brake lever) or would it be something like a locked door denying access to the mechanism? Thanks.