CFL Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 I have a Z21 bought to run HO and HOe setups. I made a up a plank with section of each rail glued down then wires soldered from the track to a connector block and from there to the green prog track connector. After problems with constant shorts I put down 2 sections of track wired to the main track port. I tried 1 loco at a time on the prog tracks then the same on the main tracks having to swap the green connector each time, I also disconnected 1 of the tracks from the prog joiner to see if my dodgy soldering was the cause. POM was also tried but no joy, and you get no readback from the chip unlike the tablet. As I'm using Roco track I have yellow & blue wires taking care to keeep them on the same side. I turned down the output to 16v from 20v to be safe. Not a hope, whichever track and whichever loco I instantly get a short circuit warning. Does anyone have an idea before 1 of my chips goes fizz-pop! As usual Roco will be pleased to sell you something but assistance? Nope. Thanks in advance, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 Can you clarify what results you have received for each different connection attempt you have made? Also can you confirm whether you get a short when nothing is corrected to the Z21? Finally, what are you trying to use by way of tool to program or read anything from the Z21? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFL Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) With nothing on the tracks all is well both on my Samsung smartphone and Acer tablet. Both run Android. Put any loco on any track and there is an instant short (the Z21 cuts out). The 'tools' are the Roco software, tested and up to date. Programming & reading via the tablet. Edited June 2, 2021 by CFL Forgot something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted June 2, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, CFL said: tried 1 loco at a time on the prog tracks then the same on the main tracks having to swap the green connector each time, So you get a short only when a loco is placed on the track or only when you try to program it? Have these locos run ok on another system or dc since chips were installed? Only asking as it may be a bent pin on the loco socket causing the short in this case. Edited June 2, 2021 by PaulRhB 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 It doesn't sound like a Z21 issue to me as it works with nothing connected or on the track. I suggest that you check the Short Circuit main track and ensure it is set at normal, I think you need the PC software to do this rather than the phone app. Other than this suggestion I can't think of something that would make it a Z21 fault. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFL Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, PaulRhB said: So you get a short only when a loco is placed on the track or only when you try to program it? Have these locos run ok on another system or dc since chips were installed? Only asking as it may be a bent pin on the loco socket causing the short in this case. When trying to programme there is a short click from the Z21 then a green programming light. Only when I try to run the loco does everything go haywire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFL Posted June 2, 2021 Author Share Posted June 2, 2021 1 hour ago, WIMorrison said: It doesn't sound like a Z21 issue to me as it works with nothing connected or on the track. I suggest that you check the Short Circuit main track and ensure it is set at normal, I think you need the PC software to do this rather than the phone app. Other than this suggestion I can't think of something that would make it a Z21 fault. See above, looks like the Z21 is fine so tomorrow I will drag some cable out to attach the Z21 to the computer. If you don't hear from me again then the Z21 killed the computer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 2, 2021 Share Posted June 2, 2021 2 hours ago, CFL said: When trying to programme there is a short click from the Z21 then a green programming light. Only when I try to run the loco does everything go haywire. This is what the Z21 should do as the click is the relay disconnecting track power and changing to programming mode. The green light shows that the Z21 is in programming mode. You can confirm this operation with a voltmeter - with the track on (blue light) you should have track power (default is ~18v) from both track and programming outputs. When you initiate programming mode there should be nothing to the track and the programming output should be around 15v. The numbers may vary on your multimeter (use AC range), but they will be somewhere around these figures. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFL Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) Okay, the story so far. I had to move the board and main track (thanks to the wife) which must have made something move, today the blue / green lights work fine and according to my smartphone no short. I did drop the tablet so that has gone for a new screen, should be back tomorrow. Not so easy bit, I put a loco on the prog track, gave it a number then placed it onto a long piece of straight acting as the main line. The loco doesn't move despite the lights being blue / green and no short circuit signal. Weird. By the way, I checked the voltages and they were okay - even according to Roco - but I have ordered crococodile clip wires for the tester as every modeller knows 2 hands are not enough! Edited June 3, 2021 by CFL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 The light on the Z21 should be blue when connected to the main track - and actually the loco should run on either the main track or programming track as when not programming the programming track is also main track The loco will not run if the light is green 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFL Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 1 hour ago, WIMorrison said: The light on the Z21 should be blue when connected to the main track - and actually the loco should run on either the main track or programming track as when not programming the programming track is also main track The loco will not run if the light is green Agreed. But here is something strange: I put the power feed at the end of the 'main' track where power showed, move to the next section of track and zero! I put the feed in the middle and now have power all over. The loco won't run as it has an ESU chip where I reset CV8=8 but don't know what address the chip is set to (I know, should be 3, but it doesn't respond). Pass me another loco please... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Put the loco on the programming track and read CV1 … 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFL Posted June 3, 2021 Author Share Posted June 3, 2021 You won't believe this, I have 2 CFL 2-6-0 shunters / light traffic locos 1 made by Roco and 1 by Fleischmann. The fabled Fleischmann stud underneath was touching the wheels which have a lot of lateral travel resulting in a short circuit - this was the loco I used for testing. I put the Roco loco on and everything went swimmingly. Next question: how to remove the perishing stud? I had a similar problem on my granddaugters layout where the stud caught the level crossing, superglue sorted that but I think something more pro is needed here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 Always the simplest of faults trips us up as we always want a complex fault glad it is sorted out now though 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamThomas Posted June 3, 2021 Share Posted June 3, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, CFL said: Next question: how to remove the perishing stud? It is held in place by a tiny circlip so a certain amount of dismantling will be required - or, you can pull it out by sheer brute force & hope the circlip falls out. Or superglue it as you have done before. BTW - for those that do not know the spring stud is not a 3-rail pick up - it's a contact for Flesichmanns early automated control systems - mono directional due to it being offset. Edited June 4, 2021 by SamThomas Typo - should be "tiny" regarding the circlip. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFL Posted June 4, 2021 Author Share Posted June 4, 2021 The superglue option won't work here, the short is between the plunger, track and wheels, so even if glued 'up' the shorting will stay. After all the pushing and shoving of the Fleischmann loco I already have a matchbox with parts to put back on. First I will change the chip, the Roco had space to run the wires and put the chip in the boiler, the Fleischmann does not and the cab is a birds nest for which I have a new straight plug-in chip, no spaghetti involved! Very many thanks to all involved, although as Iain said we start at the tricky end without considering something basic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now