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28 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

I believe that this unusual arrangement was to do with its conversion to a Kylchap chimney.

 

A3 2751 'Humorist' Retford 1930

I suggest it was a smoke lifting experiment. Similar and equally unsuccessful disfigurements were applied to the Royal Scots on the other side of the Pennines.

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On 08/09/2021 at 19:06, montyburns56 said:

Ealing Broadway 1925


Those are Met District (ie District) Railway locos, usually used to haul the through trains to the LT&S, but I’m not sure those are LT&S coaches.


Does anyone know for sure?

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In response to last Saturday evening's enquiry:

"Those are Met District (ie District) Railway locos, usually used to haul the through trains to the LT&S, but I’m not sure those are LT&S coaches.  Does anyone know for sure?"

 

I don't know for sure - and wary of speaking out on subjects I've not studied.  However, I have some initial thoughts, and if a separate thread emerges, maybe others will be able to provide further evidence or find the reference material faster than I can!

 

The image in the LT Museum collection is dated 23 July 1927.  It's an agency picture and I feel the date is reliable.  Naturally we might expect the stock to be the LT&SR corridor vehicles built for the Ealing-Southend run.  There were two trains of these vehicles, the last survivors being on the Shropshire/Montgomeryshire line at least to the late 1950s.   Southend services, until the later years,  tended to require three trains to cover the workings.  Very likely the image shows the 'third' train, using more conventional stock from the LTSR/LMS fleet - or it could be vehicles standing in for maintenance - or perhaps could be an extra for a busy day.  

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1 hour ago, Engineer said:

Southend services, until the later years,  tended to require three trains to cover the workings.  Very likely the image shows the 'third' train, using more conventional stock from the LTSR/LMS fleet - or it could be vehicles standing in for maintenance - or perhaps could be an extra for a busy day.  

 

Good possibilities.

 

I re-read the book about the S&M under miilitary control recently, and it was dim memory of the coach photos in that which prompted me to ask the question. I certainly wasn't aware that the service required more than the purpose-built corridor stock.

 

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On 09/09/2021 at 20:04, LMS2968 said:

I suggest it was a smoke lifting experiment. Similar and equally unsuccessful disfigurements were applied to the Royal Scots on the other side of the Pennines.

Correct, at least according to O.S. Nock, is his volume on Gresley Pacifics.

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The electrical kit on them was the same as on the contemporary EMUs, and they were used for a while on the Circle Line as singletons, with a set of trailers, the rear of which was a control trailer, so my surmise is that they had exactly the same MU equipment as the EMUs, and are here working in true MU. It had never crossed my mind that they might not be, until you asked.

 

PS: They only had driving controls at one end of each loco, so a pair, back to back, really constituted a single entity. I think one was fitted with controls at both ends eventually.

 

PPS: Now this goes into a lot of detail, and includes a cracking photo of a singleton hauling LTSR 6W stock! Unfortunately it isnt explicit about the MU kit, but by inference it supports my surmise above. https://www.lurs.org.uk/documents/pdf09/oct/district_electric_trains.pdf#:~:text=To work the LNWR trains%2C the District bought,for the passenger stock%2C was ordered from BT-H.

 

 

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2 hours ago, rodent279 said:

So what defines a Coal Tank? Surely more than just the wheel arrangement?

According to Wikipedia the name comes from being the tank version of the Webb 17 inch Coal Engine - an 0-6-0 tender engine  known for hauling coal trains.

 

And incidentally Wikipedia says of the 0-6-2 wheel arrangement: Under the Whyte notation for the classification of steam locomotives, 0-6-2 represents the wheel arrangement of no leading wheels, six powered and coupled driving wheels on three axles and two trailing wheels on one axle. The type is sometimes known as a Webb or a Branchliner. Hands up anyone who's ever heard either of those terms.

 

Edited by Andy Kirkham
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