Do youtubers contribute positively to railway modelling?

[big jim]

@HonestTom do you have a link to your YouTube channel, genuinely interested to have a look as it sounds like you invest a lot of time and effort into your videos 

 

 

 

 

 

[HonestTom]

1 hour ago, bradfordbuffer said:

I have a suggestion......

 

Can we re title thus thread to:-

 

'Do youtubers cause arguments on RM web'

 

Your thoughts please, 

 

 

Okay. No, or not this one at least. A question was asked about YouTubers. As a YouTuber, I feel qualified to answer that question and, if I may say so, better than people who by their own admission don't actually have any experience or knowledge of YouTube. Several people here have displayed a hostile, prejudiced attitude towards YouTubers based upon nothing, which I find quite rude - it's not like people don't know there are YouTubers reading. Under the circumstances, I don't think it's unreasonable for me to come to my own defence. I have endeavoured to back my points up and, where relevant, provide sources. I have requested that people back their own statements up, and all I've got is non-sequiturs and refusals.

 

58 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Some interesting points .

 

 One of my daughters quite fancied being a youtuber .

 

And by this she didn't mean changing the world or showing off her skills .

 

She meant sitting on an island , doing ... all, being paid £100k plus a year for wearing gucci . 

 

That's the definition ( and maybe stereotype ) of a youtuber , and certainly what i get from it .

But that's like saying the definition of an actor is "someone who develops a drug problem and joins the Church of Scientology." I don't like to resort to appeal to authority, but per the Oxford English Dictionary, the definition of a YouTuber is "a person who uploads, produces, or appears in videos on the video-sharing website YouTube." That's all.

 

I wish I was being paid £100,000 to wear Gucci, but I don't think they do walking boots.

 

58 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

 

 

 

But the problem I have is often he seems to have no idea about the prototype - so how can you really hope to review a miniature version ?

And then people take it as accurate .

I think this is a little unfair. He doesn't know much about the prototype, but he doesn't claim to. He provides some historical context for the models, but he's quite open about the fact that he's not an expert on the prototype, and he doesn't comment on the prototype in his reviews. He will often qualify his statements on livery, detail etc with "I don't know if..." Now, I agree that this makes his reviews of limited use to "serious" modellers. Personally, I am someone who pays attention to prototype accuracy, so his reviews certainly won't be the first ones I look at. But it's not like he's saying "This feature is right and this feature is wrong."

[big jim]

47 minutes ago, Robin Brasher said:

I thought Sam's Trains did an excellent review of Rails' Caledonian 812,

the issue with YouTube to me is the first ‘Sams trains’ video that got recommended to me in my timeline thing was the paddling pool one which I clicked out of morbid curiosity, I then sped through the introduction straight to the bit of the train running underwater, if he did a safety chat at the start, warned people not to try it themselves it was missed by me as I just want to see the money shot, that’s the danger of YouTube, attention span

 

having watched only a part of that video my mind was made up that I wouldn’t be wasting any more of my time on his videos, others obviously have the opposite experience, think he’s the cats pajamas and hang on his every word, I bet if I’d have clicked on a different more informative video first my opinion would have been totally different such is the fickle world of social media

 

I do worry about the impact of social media on youngsters, many want to be the next big thing, my 12 year old included, however if you do make it you could lose everything over one post you make (or made a while ago) , all social media platforms are the same though, on here for example how many ‘prolific’ posters have come and gone over the years, either seemingly falling out of favour or thinking they are above the plebs and flouncing off only to be missed by on-one and replaced by someone more prolific a short time later

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by big jim

[bradfordbuffer]

1 hour ago, big jim said:

And fall into a ‘my name is Giovanni Giorgio’ wormhole for a while!

 

Putting modelling aside for a minute, but keeping with rail enthusiasm, as someone who sees the railway day in day out from the front, the likes of Francis Bourgeois, as much as I can’t abide his videos or ‘persona’ is a social media ‘star’ who has had a positive impact on the hobby in general, he’s somehow played a blinder to become this months ‘flavour of the month’ and appears to be making hay while the sun shines, and why not, like most things there is a lot of negativity against him, mostly it would appear from other enthusiasts who recon it should be them basking in the glory instead of him! 

 

His influence is certainly noticeable recently that there are a lot more youngsters out and about at stations giving my ‘create brake’ hand signals and I’ll most of the time give them some tonezzzzzzzzzz as I pass by

 

however I do worry about the ‘persona’ francis puts across in his videos, as much as it really (and I mean really, really) bugs me that a person with a Go-Pro strapped to his head is now GBRf ‘Brand ambassador’ not someone who has actual inside knowledge of the workings of the railway I’m hoping that going forward he can use his platform to promote the likes of rail safety, I’ve often seen youngsters excitedly running up and down platforms with their video camera on tripods to get to their next filming position, much as he does on some of his videos when he gets over excited, the ‘Dick Mabutt’ video being an example, so now with GB, network rail or whoever’s input I think it would be good for him to do a professional safety video aimed at his followers highlighting general Railway etiquette for those who want to venture to the lineside for the first time who maybe don’t quite understand the dangers of the real Railway

 

youngsters are far more likely to watch and listen to him and his delivery style than a random bloke in a suit talking at them, of course having GBRf as his plaform gets the message out across the media platforms he doesn’t use such as YouTube and Twitter spreading the safety message far and wide 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more with you Jim on the youngsters safety thing....was sometimes done by a green carded driver..(medically restricted driver who Couldn't drive any more) it lost its way and became less of a thing late 90s was semi restarted with community engagement,  don't know if currently done but don't know if kids would be now happy with a sticker set of coulor pencils and a couloring competition !

 

When I was a driver manager at skipton I made a 'coffin' for my local club to  made a model display hazard display.....the btp officer use to place on table in front of class for shock value...

 

So as GBRf is full of cranks....so probably on uks premium Web sight!...rmw!...get your heads together and use the current trend to do some good and keep as many rugrats off the tracks.....and credit big jim as his idea! Some one to blame if it all goes wrong!()

[HonestTom]

54 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Much as you stereotype "serious enthusiasts" .

When did I do that?

 

54 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

As one that you would - possibly - consider of type because I make models to P4 standards of the LNWR railway set in 1907, I find that most unfair. Despite Simon Kohler's repeated statements on the recent Hornby tv programme that modellers want accurate detail (or words to that effect) there seems to be a not uncommon common desire  in this hobby to denigrate those who seek that in all aspects of their modelling activity.

When did I do that? I'm going to ask for specific instances here. I also don't see what "denigrating those who seek high standards" has to do with YouTube.

 

54 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

You appear to believer that YouTube "presenters" contribute positively to this hobby. Well, perhaps that depends upon what they present and where you are in your modelling "journey". I know quite a few modellers, with different levels of experience, interests and time in this hobby, who haven't looked at YouTube videos (other than  old railway films posted on it).

Okay, I'm not saying that one has to watch YouTube to get into railway modelling, just that it provides an accessible means for them to do so. 

 

54 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

Does it attract newcomers, who can definitely say? The statistics show that people follow/look at content but does it motivate them to visit a show, or local club, navigate their way to RMweb, visit a local model shop (if there is one)? I recognise that I am not qualified to answer these questions objectively - I expect very few are - and I have watched very little YouTube or other similar platform model railway content because I found it of little or no relevance. Some of what I have seen I thought facile, ill informed or misleading, although clearly the presenter felt otherwise. If it makes them popular and monetises their activities than I expect they will be very happy. However, I don't see it as relevant to the hobby as forums such as RMweb where there is more social interaction, genuine knowledge exchange, shared ideas and experience. 

 

 

Again, though, by your own admission, your opinion is based on very little firsthand knowledge. What I keep seeing in this thread is, basically, "well I haven't watched much of it, but it's very clear based upon the two videos by an unspecified YouTuber that I did watch that it has nothing whatsoever to offer this hobby."

 

 

30 minutes ago, big jim said:

@HonestTom do you have a link to your YouTube channel, genuinely interested to have a look as it sounds like you invest a lot of time and effort into your videos 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks! Yep, it's at youtube.com/c/jagohazzard. I must admit, there's not been any model railway content recently, but the vast majority of my stuff is rail-related. I've got a video coming out at half past five this afternoon on the history of the abandoned Underground station at Euston, including some shots taken inside. The most recent video at present is a quick thing about Tube closures, which may not be the most interesting. I'll admit I'm not the slickest YouTuber - more an enthusiastic amateur.

Edited January 21, 2022 by HonestTom

[big jim]

1 minute ago, bradfordbuffer said:

So as GBRf is full of cranks....so probably on uks premium Web sight!...rmw!...get your heads together and use the current trend to do some good and keep as many rugrats off the tracks.....and credit big jim as his idea! Some one to blame if it all goes wrong!()

and that’s the other danger of social media, I stole that idea off another forum and passed it off as my own!

 

i do however have the contacts to put the suggestion across, no doubt it’s already been considered anyway 

[bradfordbuffer]

1 minute ago, HonestTom said:

When did I do that?

 

When did I do that? I'm going to ask for specific instances here. I also don't see what "denigrating those who seek high standards" has to do with YouTube.

 

Okay, I'm not saying that one has to watch YouTube to get into railway modelling, just that it provides an accessible means for them to do so. 

 

Again, though, by your own admission, your opinion is based on very little firsthand knowledge. What I keep seeing in this thread is, basically, "well I haven't watched much of it, but it's very clear based upon the two videos by an unspecified YouTuber that I did watch that it has nothing whatsoever to offer this hobby."

 

 

Thanks! Yep, it's at youtube.com/c/jagohazzard. I must admit, there's not been any model railway content recently, but the vast majority of my stuff is rail-related. I've got a video coming out at half past five this afternoon on the history of the abandoned Underground station at Euston, including some shots taken inside. The most recent video at present is a quick thing about Tube closures, which may not be the most interesting.

Hi honesttom....I can say watched many of your vids and take this the right way you have a good voice for raidio....with enough defection and humor to make a disused station seem interesting....keep it up

G

[Jol Wilkinson]

10 hours ago, Corbs said:

 

Hi Jol,

 

I don't believe this to be the case. Whilst creative hobbies may well have dipped in the 80s/90s and early 00s due to media stigma, across the board there is a huge resurgence in interest in creativity. Lockdown/Covid accelerated this further in many cases. Knitting, sewing, DIY, pottery, baking, model railways and more are all going through a boom and expansion.

One might even say that making videos is a creative hobby, it certainly was for me in my youth.

 

Our lives are 'busy' but we have so much leisure time, in the UK we may well have more leisure time than ever before (apart from historical upper classes).

 

I think that the problem of being simultaneously rushed off one's feet and bored out of one's mind is a much bigger societal problem than pointing the finger at a specific media platform and its users. YouTube is flawed and has deep problems but it is not the sole cause.

 

 

While creative hobbies have seen a boom in the last two years, it is interesting that most of  those you mention are traditionally women's activities.

 

Locally, there is one model railway shop, one large Hobbycraft store, more than a dozen sewing and knitting shops, several pottery cafes and teaching studios, many "cook shops", etc. In Hobbycraft there is little modelling stuff, mainly Airfix kits and Revell paints. During the occasional visit the customers I saw were almost all women or children. There isn't a model shop locally that supplies RC aircraft/boats/buggies or  Airfix/Tamiya/Revell plastic kits, etc. kits. So there seems to be a definite shortage of on the ground places for "men's" hobbies (apologies to any lady modellers here).

 

I also noticed, when exhibiting my layout at shows, that the women visitors were the ones that showed the most interest in the smaller modelling detail, while the men were mainly interested in the trains. So my take is that any increase in creative hobbies is probably easier for women than men, given the way that "modelling" retailing has developed. The cancellation of local shows clearly hasn't helped either.

 

I agree with you last point entirely. A lack of confidence/fear of failure in today's achievement focussed society in taking on a new "challenge" may also also relevant. That is something I have increasingly seen at first hand over a decade or more.

[HonestTom]

1 minute ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Hi honesttom....I can say watched many of your vids and take this the right way you have a good voice for raidio....with enough defection and humor to make a disused station seem interesting....keep it up

G

Thank you!

[bradfordbuffer]

2 minutes ago, big jim said:

and that’s the other danger of social media, I stole that idea off another forum and passed it off as my own!

 

i do however have the contacts to put the suggestion across, no doubt it’s already been considered anyway 

So prob be seeing dickmybutt at model shows!

It does make me cringe when you see youtube/tutter/celebs/plebs at model shows peacocking around with a trail of fans looking at the same layouts in the same order as 'celebs' cringe

[big jim]

Cheers Tom, I shall have a look at some vids later, admittedly the underground isn’t really my go to thing but it is fascinating, I do enjoy the Met though as I used to drive it with chiltern

 

as it happens this is my most viewed video from 10 years ago, looks to have been recorded on a potato compared to todays iPhone camera quality!

 

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

20 minutes ago, HonestTom said:

When did I do that?

 

When did I do that? I'm going to ask for specific instances here. I also don't see what "denigrating those who seek high standards" has to do with YouTube.

 

Okay, I'm not saying that one has to watch YouTube to get into railway modelling, just that it provides an accessible means for them to do so. 

 

Again, though, by your own admission, your opinion is based on very little firsthand knowledge. What I keep seeing in this thread is, basically, "well I haven't watched much of it, but it's very clear based upon the two videos by an unspecified YouTuber that I did watch that it has nothing whatsoever to offer this hobby."

 

 

Thanks! Yep, it's at youtube.com/c/jagohazzard. I must admit, there's not been any model railway content recently, but the vast majority of my stuff is rail-related. I've got a video coming out at half past five this afternoon on the history of the abandoned Underground station at Euston, including some shots taken inside. The most recent video at present is a quick thing about Tube closures, which may not be the most interesting. I'll admit I'm not the slickest YouTuber - more an enthusiastic amateur.

While you may consider you didn't say those thing that you have denied, you implied it. 

 

Clearly you and I won't see eye to eye on what you believe as the impact of YouTube in this instance. I simply think that the influence on this hobby that you believe YouTube has, is unproven and can't be measured to an objective degree. 

[HonestTom]

1 hour ago, big jim said:

Cheers Tom, I shall have a look at some vids later, admittedly the underground isn’t really my go to thing but it is fascinating, I do enjoy the Met though as I used to drive it with chiltern

 

as it happens this is my most viewed video from 10 years ago, looks to have been recorded on a potato compared to todays iPhone camera quality!

 

 

 

Nice! I enjoyed this - I've often thought I'd like to do something similar (i.e. following a journey from end-to-end).

 

The advances in camera technology kind of freak me out. I remember some years back a friend showing me his new camera that cost him over a thousand pounds, but could take broadcast-quality footage. He said that a lot of film and TV studios had bought them, because they were smaller and cheaper than what they had. And then a few years later, we got smartphones that enable us to take broadcast-quality footage (enable us to, I can't say I hit that goal with my shaky hands). And now the smartphone camera I have that can take broadcast-quality footage is eclipsed by newer models. I mean, there are actual feature films being shot on smartphones, and not just shaky-cam no-budget horror flicks. Makes me wish I was better with technology.

Edited January 21, 2022 by HonestTom

[HonestTom]

7 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

While you may consider you didn't say those thing that you have denied, you implied it. 

 

 

Okay, what did I say that implied it? I am absolutely open to correction here, but I am, again, going to request specifics.

[colin smith]

5 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

'Do youtubers cause arguments on RM web'

 

Please, I think that's unfairly singling out Youtubers. We need an exhaustive list of subjects that cause arguments on RM web.

Edited January 21, 2022 by colin smith
incomptetence.

[njee20]

1 hour ago, bradfordbuffer said:

So prob be seeing dickmybutt at model shows!

It does make me cringe when you see youtube/tutter/celebs/plebs at model shows peacocking around with a trail of fans looking at the same layouts in the same order as 'celebs' cringe

I’ll confess I understand about half of what you write, but is this really a thing…? “Celebrities” walking around shows with a trail of fans? I have never ever seen or heard of this. 

[big jim]

45 minutes ago, njee20 said:

I’ll confess I understand about half of what you write, but is this really a thing…? “Celebrities” walking around shows with a trail of fans? I have never ever seen or heard of this. 

I suppose if nothing else Francis had deflected the gaze from the other ‘go to’ railway celebrity Pete Waterman

[Jol Wilkinson]

2 hours ago, HonestTom said:

Okay, what did I say that implied it? I am absolutely open to correction here, but I am, again, going to request specifics.

"I see this condescending attitude all over the place. The self-identified "real enthusiasts" and "serious modellers" patronising newcomers and younger enthusiasts, then blaming them when they decide they don't want to get involved in clubs and societies where they're clearly not wanted."

 

You may not consider that as stereotyping people who are serious about their railway modelling but I do.

 

However, this isn't advancing the discussion that the OP set out, so I suggest we leave it at that.

[bradfordbuffer]

57 minutes ago, njee20 said:

I’ll confess I understand about half of what you write, but is this really a thing…? “Celebrities” walking around shows with a trail of fans? I have never ever seen or heard of this. 

Oh yes and quite funny to see....take a seat at a large show and watch..and we will be watching you thinking oh another gongoozerler!

[HonestTom]

4 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

"I see this condescending attitude all over the place. The self-identified "real enthusiasts" and "serious modellers" patronising newcomers and younger enthusiasts, then blaming them when they decide they don't want to get involved in clubs and societies where they're clearly not wanted."

 

You may not consider that as stereotyping people who are serious about their railway modelling but I do.

 

However, this isn't advancing the discussion that the OP set out, so I suggest we leave it at that.

I don't know why you took something that was, in context, obviously a criticism of hostile and exclusionary attitudes towards newcomers as an attack on your particular type of modelling.

[Legend]

5 hours ago, rob D2 said:

 

 

But the problem I have is often he seems to have no idea about the prototype - so how can you really hope to review a miniature version ?

And then people take it as accurate .

He doesn’t claim to know much about the prototypes and makes that quite clear . What he does do is investigate the mechanism and we see how the model runs .  You get the faults .  People take magazine reviews as accurate  but they seldom mention any issues with a model . Take the W1 as an example .  Is that any better ? 

[HonestTom]

32 minutes ago, Legend said:

He doesn’t claim to know much about the prototypes and makes that quite clear . What he does do is investigate the mechanism and we see how the model runs .  You get the faults .  People take magazine reviews as accurate  but they seldom mention any issues with a model . Take the W1 as an example .  Is that any better ? 

I find the fact that you can see the model in detail and watch it running very useful for deciding whether to buy something, even if I don't necessarily agree with his conclusions. He's showcased models that I like but he hated, and vice versa. I consider him to be, as it were, "part of a balanced diet" of model reviewers.

 

I should also state in the interests of fairness that he's not the only YouTuber who showcases models in detail - there are magazine-affiliated channels that do likewise. One of them had me this close to buying a streamlined Duchess.

[Flying Pig]

4 hours ago, HonestTom said:

And now the smartphone camera I have that can take broadcast-quality footage is eclipsed by newer models. I mean, there are actual feature films being shot on smartphones, and not just shaky-cam no-budget horror flicks. Makes me wish I was better with technology.

 

i appreciate decent images, but I don't watch Youtube for brodcast-quality production or pictures: I watch it because it is generally more direct, to the point and honest than TV.  The closer a channel comes to aping the mannerisms of telly the more likely I am to give it a "don't recommend".

[HonestTom]

Just now, Flying Pig said:

 

i appreciate decent images, but I don't watch Youtube for brodcast-quality production or pictures: I watch it because it is generally more direct, to the point and honest than TV.  The closer a channel comes to aping the mannerisms of telly the more likely I am to give it a "don't recommend".

 

Oddly enough, while I have been known to watch old TV programmes on YouTube (I'd watch them legit if they were available), I find YouTube documentaries that imitate a television format quite hard to watch. I can't say why that is, whether the documentaries themselves are flawed or I just can't accept that format on that site. Certainly I can't criticise the presentation, writing or production values.

[Nick C]

3 hours ago, colin smith said:

 

Please, I think that's unfairly singling out Youtubers. We need an exhaustive list of subjects that cause arguments on RM web.

Probably easier to list those that don't...