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GWR Dean Era Coach Livery


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17 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Examples seen at Didcot in May 2021.

 

Lot and diagram details taken from Great Western Coaches: 1890-1954, Michael Harris and http://penrhos.me.uk/.

 

No.416, Diagram T49, 31' 4-wheel Van Third, 1891

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No.1941, Diagram C3 46' bogie Third, 1892

 

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No.2511, Diagram G20 31' 6-wheel Third Saloon, Lot 740, 1894

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No.933, Diagram K14 40' bogie Passenger Brake Van, Lot 883, 1898

 

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A lovely set of images! Thanks for sharing them with us! :locomotive:

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Interesting to see 'Roath' as a destination. The district of Roath is extant but the station has long gone. @The Johnster of this parish probably knows far more than I in that respect.

 

Nice detailed photographs, thank you.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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I've never heard of Roath as a destination, but there may be an explanation which I'll come back to shortly.  The station was opened in 1899 and closed in 1917, but the ghost of it still exists in the separation between the mains and reliefs at this point to accommodate the down platform.  There was also a station at Marshfield, which remained open until 1962 and was used by the 'Marshfield Flyer', an auto service that plied it's trade between Cardiff General and Newport High Street.  Roath station is on the SWML just to the Newport side of Splott Road bridge, and given Philou's association with that part of Cardiff I'm surprised he consider's me the expert!  The station building was I believe demolished before our time, but the rear wall facing Pearl Street round the corner from the Illtudians Club was still there until quite recently.

 

The booking hall, which included this rear wall, was of red brick, and was used as a prop storage and workshop by a local am-dram society for some years after the closure.  The border between Roath and Splott runs along the railway line, and prior to the construction of the reliefs the down platform was technically not in Roath but in Splott.  Roath is a quitec large area centred on it's old parish church, St Margaret's, about a mile as the crow flies but a much longer walk from this spot.*  The station was used as a transfer point for wounded soldiers from the Western Front in WW1, who were treated at the Splottlands school at the other end of Splott Road, which was being used as a hospital at the time.  This may have continued for a while after the station was closed to passengers, and may have been one of the reasons it was closed to passengers, but I have no proper information about this.  Hospital trains may account for the use of 'Roath' as a destination board.

 

I've seen a photo of an up train passing through the station while it was open, consisting of non-gangwayed Dean clerestories in pre-Churchward livery, hauled by, IIRC, a 'Duke' 4-4-0.

 

There has been some talk recently of opening a new station on the site, along with Marshfield, the proposed new park and ride at St Mellon's, and at Rumney.  These would be served by Cardiff-Ebbw Vale trains.  Talk costs a lot less than building stations, but the argument is that there would be enough local traffic to justify it.  Personally, I reckon the 10 minute service frequency and larger number of locations served offered by the no.11 bus would make it relatively unattractive to local residents, though the time saving might generate traffic further upline.  There is talk of opening St Fagan's as well, with the museum traffic in mind.

 

 

*The boundary between Roath and Splott, and the precise definitions of Adamsdown, Tredegarville, Plasnewydd, Penylan, and Roath Park varies according to whether you are going by the parish boundaries, postal definitions, or council ward boundaries, and are a good way to get a heated debate going in any local pub.  Railways serve as area boundaries to a large extent in Cardiff, including some that have not existed for nearly 50 years, because the history of the city is that it was a small market town bounded by the river Taff and the Roman wall for hundreds of years and did not develop until after the TVR and SWR were built, and even later lines divide the suburbs. 

Edited by The Johnster
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There is a place called Splott. Now my life is complete. 

 

1 hour ago, Miss Prism said:

Excellent pics.

gwr.org now points to this page.

 

Thank you.  Hard to get good angles given the locations, but if any are of use for the site, you are welcome to use them.  

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Yay @The Johnster ! See! I knew you would come up with the goods. Yes, I admit crossing Splott Road railway bridge daily to and from secondary school (St Illtyds seeing as you mentioned the Illtydians Club), but I was too short to see over the parapet and never really saw the railway itself!

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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Never been to Splott. You haven't lived. When I was a student I used to sell icecream from a "stop me and buy one" trike there in the holidays (outside a school but I can't remember the name).

But I had never heard of Roath as a destination. Since the livery is pre 1908 the paintwork would have been a bit tired by the time Roath was an ambulance train destination? Perhaps whoever worked on the restoration and painting lives there?

Jonathan

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Yes, Splott Road Bridge is not conducive to the locality's awareness of the SWML, and even back in the day, the station must have been pretty low profile to anyone who came at it from anything other than the Pearl Street direction, and not the one from Constellation Street at that.  The SWML is down in a cutting here and does not impose itself much on the senses.

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Returning on topic, there is somewhere on one of the Metro tank threads within RMWeb, a photograph of a Metro hurrying along on the SWML between Newport and Cardiff hauling what IIRC could well be a rake of coaches similar to those in the photos above - who knows - maybe a stopper calling at Roath (for Splott).

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

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2 hours ago, Philou said:

Interesting to see 'Roath' as a destination. The district of Roath is extant but the station has long gone. @The Johnster of this parish probably knows far more than I in that respect.

 

Nice detailed photographs, thank you.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

Roath station was closed in 1917? Ah ha!

Edited by Paul H Vigor
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3 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

 Perhaps whoever worked on the restoration and painting lives there?

There may be some truth in that suggestion.

 

I think that coach 1941 was located in the Cardiff-Newport area when purchased by four(?) members of the GWS circa 1970.  I recall that the owners at that time included Arthur Benson and Ben, I think that I never met the others...  pretty sure that Ben was Welsh and Arthur had an interesting lilt to his voice.

 

So the chance is that one or other of the owners had a connection with Roath.  Maybe Pete Speller @K14 can cast a brighter light on the destination board?

Edited by Western Star
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Splott, or The Splottlands, Y Sblot in Welsh, is mentioned on maps going back to medieval times, land owned by the Bishop of Llandaff as opposed to Roath to it's north which was owned by Tewkesbury Abbey.  As the song goes:-

 

'I'm Caardiff born I'm Caardiff bred

an' when I dies I'm Caardiff dead.

They'll build a little plot in Splott

in memory of me'.

 

The Bishop of Llandaff connection has led to the idea that the name may have derived from 'God's Plot', but this could well be a Cardiff urban miff.  I spend some time working in the main sorting office in Cardiff, and one day was delighted to sort a letter for 'The Splutt Road Housing Association, Splitt Road, Splatt!  If you think Splott is funny, I would counter with Scwrfa, near Tredegar, which sounds like a horrible skin disease (eurgh, you've got Scwrfa), and Scethrog in the countryside to the north of Brecon, which sounds like either a worse disease or a particularly unpleasant Viking.  Scwrfa is one of those bleak underclass council eastate Third World Hellhole Heads of the Valleys places where it's winter all year round and the psychos go round in pairs for protection.

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Splott, or The Splottlands, Y Sblot in Welsh, is mentioned on maps going back to medieval times, land owned by the Bishop of Llandaff as opposed to Roath to it's north which was owned by Tewkesbury Abbey.  As the song goes:-

 

'I'm Caardiff born I'm Caardiff bred

an' when I dies I'm Caardiff dead.

They'll build a little plot in Splott

in memory of me'.

 

The Bishop of Llandaff connection has led to the idea that the name may have derived from 'God's Plot', but this could well be a Cardiff urban miff.  I spend some time working in the main sorting office in Cardiff, and one day was delighted to sort a letter for 'The Splutt Road Housing Association, Splitt Road, Splatt!  If you think Splott is funny, I would counter with Scwrfa, near Tredegar, which sounds like a horrible skin disease (eurgh, you've got Scwrfa), and Scethrog in the countryside to the north of Brecon, which sounds like either a worse disease or a particularly unpleasant Viking.  Scwrfa is one of those bleak underclass council eastate Third World Hellhole Heads of the Valleys places where it's winter all year round and the psychos go round in pairs for protection.

 

 

 

 

Would that be the origins of Splott on the Landscape ?

All the best

Ray

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15 hours ago, billbedford said:

Did the GWR really paint their drop light frames and bolections signal red?

 

I have seen references to them being Venetian Red and also varnished mahogany. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

Would that be the origins of Splott on the Landscape ?

All the best

Ray

Splott is on the landscape, so, quite possibly, yes...  It is bounded to the north by the SWML, to the west by East Moors, and to the east by the Roath Branch, beyond which is Tremorfa, Sea Town Place.  The southern boundary is the foreshore, the Cardiff Riviera.  Philou will remember the roar that could be heard across the city when hot slag form East Moors steelworks was tipped into the sea, resulting in an explosion of steam.

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On 05/06/2021 at 22:03, Western Star said:

There may be some truth in that suggestion.

 

I think that coach 1941 was located in the Cardiff-Newport area when purchased by four(?) members of the GWS circa 1970.  I recall that the owners at that time included Arthur Benson and Ben, I think that I never met the others...  pretty sure that Ben was Welsh and Arthur had an interesting lilt to his voice.

 

So the chance is that one or other of the owners had a connection with Roath.  Maybe Pete Speller @K14 can cast a brighter light on the destination board?

 

The Roath/Fleur-De-Lys board was at the request of Ben (1/2 owner of 1941 who lives in Splott & has a Welsh accent you could cut bricks with :) ). The other one is Fochriw/Bridgend - Bridgend was where my uncle Jim used to live after he retired from Port Talbot steelworks, & Fochriw...? It was either suggested by Ben or I stumbled upon it & it piqued my sense of Lavatorial Humour.

 

P.

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On 05/06/2021 at 18:27, Edwardian said:

There is a place called Splott. Now my life is complete.

 

A friend of mine was Vicar of Splott, as in the rhyme.

 

'We're off to see the Vicar,

The wonderful Vicar of Splott.

He's not a very good vicar,

but he's the only vicar we've got.'

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I'll have you know that Fochriw has a long and honourable history in railway circles, former station on the B&M and lots of local coal mines. Isn't the opencast site that has until recently sent coal down the Rhymney line pretty near Fochriw?

Not that I have ever been there - or feel any need to visit.

Jonathan

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Little did I realise I'd started a 'Welsh place names' topic.  Not that I mind in the slightest. Fascinating stuff. 

 

EDIT: More vowels than I was expecting, BTW ;)

 

 

Edited by Edwardian
spelling!
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Try Ysbyty Ystwyth. Not good if you ever need to put transfers on a wagon from there - or a coach destination board, though as it didn't have a station not too much chance.

Anyway, glad we sorted out the destination board, and I am still dreading the though if repainting the three GWR carriages sitting on my workbench in pre 1908 chocolate and cream. But at least now some excellent reference photos.

Jonathan

There, I got the thread almost back on topic.

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