BEMO RhB Ge 4/4i

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Hi there.  I’m wondering if I might tap into the knowledge and experience of the Swiss Modelling Forum for some advice.  I’ve gone and bought myself a second-hand green-liveried Bemo RhB Ge 4/4i 605 - Silvretta for my H0e layout because, well, I really liked it 😀:

 

 

It’s an incredibly detailed model, and not something I’d ever normally expect to be able to afford, so I’m very happy.  But I must confess to knowing very little about Swiss Railways, or about how to look after my new purchase.  So I have a number of questions:

 

Prototype

1.  I think the RhB introduced the Ge 4/4i class from 1947 onwards, and the green livery with full-width ‘running-boards’ across the ends represents the initial version as delivered.  Is that correct?  (I think there were slightly later green versions with a small, drop-down running plate just in front of the central front door, but I may be mis-reading photos).  If I’m right, then it fits Epoch III, which is perfect for me.  I think the later, full rebuild without the front door and red livery would be too modern for me: I think that’s 1980s onwards?

 

2.  The model has the original twin pantographs.  I think most overhead electrics run with one or the other raised rather than both, but I’m not sure if there is / was a convention as to whether the leading or trailing pantograph would normally be raised?

 

Model

Starting with the obvious, this is an H0e version rather than H0m.  It looks to have been made as H0e rather than re-gauged and runs well, so I have no concerns there.  It is however quite an old model, as it came in an orange box (c. 1990 or before?) and came without instructions (fair enough).  I’m therefore wondering:

 

1.  When the pantographs are lowered (as here), should the ‘clips’ that hold it in place be engaged on both sides, or just one side?  I don’t want to force / break anything?  Apologies for the bad photo - the green side is engaged, the blue side is loose in this shot:

 

 

For a model of this vintage, it’s be understandable if a metal clip had become bent through use, hence my question.

 

2. Is there any advice on lubrication to keep the motor / wheels in good working order?  The seller suggested the only problems they’d had with Bemo products was people over-lubricating them (easily done).  Related to this, is there a technique for removing the body so I don’t break or damage anything?  I’m hoping the loco will continue to run well for a number of years.

 

I was advised by members of the NGRM Online Forum before I made the purchase that finding matching rolling stock to run on my tight H0e curves could be difficult, so no complaints on my part there - in that respect I’m a freelancer anyway.  Any advice will be gratefully received.  Thanks, Keith. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[JimFin]

2 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

Prototype

1.  I think the RhB introduced the Ge 4/4i class from 1947 onwards, and the green livery with full-width ‘running-boards’ across the ends represents the initial version as delivered.  Is that correct?

 

Other way around as I understand it, the first versions had a fold down step to allow walk over connection to other vehicles and handrails either side of the door. These were not included in the second batch delivered in 1953 which had running numbers 605 to 610. Your model would sit comfortably in era iii or iV as the full rebuild with new cabs ran from 86 to 91

2 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

The model has the original twin pantographs.  I think most overhead electrics run with one or the other raised rather than both, but I’m not sure if there is / was a convention as to whether the leading or trailing pantograph would normally be raised?

They always run with the trailing pantograph raised.

 

2 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 When the pantographs are lowered (as here), should the ‘clips’ that hold it in place be engaged on both sides, or just one side?  I don’t want to force / break anything?  Apologies for the bad photo - the green side is engaged, the blue is loose in this shot:

It should engage on both sides. The trick to raising and lowering is to push the pan to one side and the clip opposite pops out, move it the other direction and the second clip releases allowing the pantograph to raise or be retained. They are very robust and I would have thought straightening as required with fine nose pliers should resolve.

 

2 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Is there any advice on lubrication to keep the motor / wheels in good working order?  The seller suggested the only problems they’d had with Bemo products was people over-lubricating them (easily done).  Related to this, is there a technique for removing the body so I don’t break or damage anything?  I’m hoping the loco will continue to run well for a number of years.

Over lubricating will cause problems and all it needs is an occasional drop on the exposed brass gear wheels visible in the bogies when held inverted.

 

The body is held to the chassis with 4 locating slots in the body that clip onto moulded lugs on the chassis. To remove the body - hold it inverted (loco cradle maybe)  and slide a craft knife to release the clips one at a time then lift the chassis out of the body. The mechanics are virtually identical to the bemo Ge 4/4/ II and I attach a copy of that for info - diagram 2 (lube) and 3 (body removal) may help along with the exploded parts list for the slightly later version of the model - main change is 5 pole motor and DCC friendly circuit board.  

2 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

I was advised by members of the NGRM Online Forum before I made the purchase that finding matching rolling stock to run on my tight H0e curves could be difficult, so no complaints on my part there

Nice range of 4 wheel stock would go well with it, vans, open wagons, low side and timber transports as well as the cement silos, the original green 4 wheel balcony end coaches and luggage vans would be no problem and the green and cream passenger stock ran thorough until 1983. Bemo track has a smallest radius of 330mm and all their 4 axle stock negotiates that comfortably so - may be open to you depending on the radius you are using.

 

Virtually all Bemo rolling stock axles are designed to re-gauge HOm or HOe so you should be able to re-gauge if required, not a case of being restricted.

 

Hope that all helps and you have lots of fun being sucked into the swiss rabbit hole.

 

 1258_000_903.pdf

1252_120_999.pdf

Edited June 7, 2021 by JimFin
Just correcting my rubbish typos.....

[Keith Addenbrooke]

49 minutes ago, JimFin said:

 

Other way around as I understand it, the first versions had a fold down step to allow walk over connection to other vehicles and handrails either side of the door. These were not included in the second batch delivered in 1953 which had running numbers 605 to 610. Your model would sit comfortably in era iii or iV as the full rebuild with new cabs ran from 86 to 91

They always run with the trailing pantograph raised.

 

It should engage on both sides. The trick to raising and lowering is to push the pan to one side and the clip opposite pops out, move it the other direction and the second clip releases allowing the pantograph to raise or be retained. They are very robust and I would have thought straightening as required with fine nose pliers should resolve.

 

Over lubricating will cause problems and all it needs is an occasional drop on the exposed brass gear wheels visible in the bogies when held inverted.

 

The body is held to the chassis with 4 locating slots in the body that clip onto moulded lugs on the chassis. To remove the body - hold it inverted (loco cradle maybe)  and slide a craft knife to release the clips one at a time then lift the chassis out of the body. The mechanics are virtually identical to the bemo Ge 4/4/ II and I attach a copy of that for info - diagram 2 (lube) and 3 (body removal) may help along with the exploded parts list for the slightly later version of the model - main change is 5 pole motor and DCC friendly circuit board.  

Nice range of 4 wheel stock would go well with it, vans, open wagons, low side and timber transports as well as the cement silos, the original green 4 wheel balcony end coaches and luggage vans would be no problem and the green and cream passenger stock ran thorough until 1983. Bemo track has a smallest radius of 330mm and all their 4 axle stock negotiates that comfortably so - may be open to you depending on the radius you are using.

 

Virtually all Bemo rolling stock axles are designed to re-gauge HOm or HOe so you should be able to re-gauge if required, not a case of being restricted.

 

Hope that all helps and you have lots of fun being sucked into the swiss rabbit hole.

 

  1258_000_903.pdf 567.25 kB · 1 download

1252_120_999.pdf 545.24 kB · 1 download

Hi Jim, thank you for this - a perfect answer, much appreciated.  I really enjoy videos of Swiss railways (prototype and model) but have never had the chance to visit the country myself.  I’ve only recently made an intentional start with H0e modelling, which has opened up a whole new world of possibilities I’m really enjoying.  Thanks again, Keith.

[37201xoIM]

Maybe just one suggestion to add to Jim's excellent and comprehensive reply: when removing the loco body, it's helpful gently to prise the body away from the chassis, and I find that cocktail sticks (possibly halved ones!) are helpful.  When doing this, make sure that the point engages between the vents in the bodyside and the chassis, not between the body and the vents, as the vents should remain in the body when you open the loco.  That probably sounds obvious, but it's quite easy to get inadvertently between the vents and the body housing instead!  (Much the same incidentally with the Ge 4/4 II should you ever acquire one: they have big windows in the bodysides.)

[Gordonwis]

Regarding pantographs - generally the rear pantograph is the one used under normal running conditions (worldwide) and this applies on the RhB. However there are exceptions - on French railways (SNCF), the forward pantograph is raised if the vehicle next to the loco is an oil tank wagon or open air car carrier (reduced spark risk). There are also some multi system locos where there there might be one ac and one dc pantograph (on on certain standard gauge Swiss locos where one of the two pantographs has a pan suited for German overhead (Swiss overhead has a much reduced 'zig zag' to other European railways).  

[Gordonwis]

You should find more than enough short Swiss style stock to match a green Ge4/4I.

 

Try Contikits:

 www.contikits.com/European HOE.htm

 

The trouble is they have a HOe RhB Crocodile which you will probably want...(much more quirky and 'likeable' than a Ge4/4I!) 

Edited June 15, 2021 by Gordonwis

[Keith Addenbrooke]

On 15/06/2021 at 22:51, Gordonwis said:

You should find more than enough short Swiss style stock to match a green Ge4/4I.

 

Try Contikits:

 www.contikits.com/European HOE.htm

 

The trouble is they have a HOe RhB Crocodile which you will probably want...(much more quirky and 'likeable' than a Ge4/4I!) 

Thank you - happy to endorse Contikits as a satisfied customer (no other connection) - it is where I got the Ge 4/4 i from 😀

Edited April 5, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Keith Addenbrooke]

A Postscript: I traded on the Ge4/4’ pictured earlier in this thread as it didn’t really fit with my other H0e rolling stock at the time.  Having been the locomotive that tempted me to explore Swiss metre gauge railways however, it was only going to be a matter of time before I sought one out in H0m:

 

 

 

Although it came in an orange box (late 1980s ?) the condition seems excellent, especially the pantographs (no hint of rust).  The cab handrails and details are in the box, so it is complete.  My question is this:

 

when I got it out of the box for a test run, only one headlight at the No. II end was working.  I was all set to return it to the seller for inspection when, on a second test run, the light came on.  If I understand the data sheet I have for a Ge 4/4’’ from @JimFin’s post of 7th June last year above there may only be one lightbulb at each end, with a light bar for distribution.

 

If that’s correct, then I’m guessing the light bar had shaken loose internally in transit, although the Loco was well packaged and undamaged.  Is that understanding correct (just in case I have an intermittent fault that happens again).

 

Just wondered?

 

(PPS: referencing my other H0m stock, I don’t think the green livery lasted until the advent of FO Panorama Coaches from 1993, but I think I can happily picture this alongside my FO Tunnel Motors to represent their 1980 - 1982 secondment to the RhB prior to the opening of the Furka Base Tunnel.  Happy days, Keith)

Edited November 8, 2022 by Keith Addenbrooke

[JimFin]

4 hours ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

If that’s correct, then I’m guessing the light bar had shaken loose internally in transit, although the Loco was well packaged and undamaged.  Is that understanding correct

Yes - you are correct - one bulb with a vertical light bar attached to the roof and a "U" shaped bar that illuminates (or not!) both the lower lights.

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

11 hours ago, JimFin said:

Yes - you are correct - one bulb with a vertical light bar attached to the roof and a "U" shaped bar that illuminates (or not!) both the lower lights.

 

Thanks Jim.  I got the loco out of the box later for a test run with my other stock and the light had ‘gone off’ again.  Having confirmed the cause was likely to be the light bar (there now being no other logical explanation) I removed the body and it is a bit loose.  I’ve pushed it back into place and it seemed to hold - if it keeps happening I guess the tiniest amount of glue might be needed.  Still, a happy outcome.  Thanks again, Keith.

[PaulRhB]

1 hour ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Thanks Jim.  I got the loco out of the box later for a test run with my other stock and the light had ‘gone off’ again.  Having confirmed the cause was likely to be the light bar (there now being no other logical explanation) I removed the body and it is a bit loose.  I’ve pushed it back into place and it seemed to hold - if it keeps happening I guess the tiniest amount of glue might be needed.  Still, a happy outcome.  Thanks again, Keith.

Tiny bit of blu tack or cut a narrow strip of tape, that will hold it if you’re worried about glue spreading.