PECO Summer Update 2021

[Graham_Muz]

For those that haven't seen it yet PECO have issued a comprehensive update including Streamline, Bullhead, N Gauge wagons, 009 and Parkside see here https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/pg/201/KMRC-Skrifa---PECO-News-Update---Summer-2021

[wombatofludham]

Thanks for the notice.  Good to see a more definitive reference to the OHLE portal gantries for next year, which given they are prioritising their track production is understandable.

[dasatcopthorne]

Bloody great.

 

They can introduce new items that they have no idea whether they will sell or not but cannot produce Bullhead Slips etc. that they well know there is a demand for.

 

Yet again Peco let us down with items promised months and months ago.

 

Dave.

[Bomag]

1 hour ago, dasatcopthorne said:

Bloody great.

 

They can introduce new items that they have no idea whether they will sell or not but cannot produce Bullhead Slips etc. that they well know there is a demand for.

 

Yet again Peco let us down with items promised months and months ago.

 

Dave.

 

Peco development times have always stretched the laws of time-space. I am not certain why you think that it is different now?

 

WRT bullhead slips, I take it that as you want them you assume that there is a massive unmet market and that as you don't want the other things announced there is no market,

[Steamport Southport]

Bullhead slips?

 

 

Has anyone told Bellcrank and Bissell?

 

 

[Darius43]

Is the production of the existing code 75 bullhead items (flexitrack and large radius turnouts) also being put back or is it just the proposed new(ish) items?

 

Darius

[Darius43]

43 minutes ago, Bomag said:

 

Peco development times have always stretched the laws of time-space. I am not certain why you think that it is different now?

 

WRT bullhead slips, I take it that as you want them you assume that there is a massive unmet market and that as you don't want the other things announced there is no market,

The Peco bullhead range was popular when first introduced and quite a few have planned and started layouts based on it only to have them stalled for lack of current and newly proposed bullhead track from Peco.   
 

This latest news is disappointing, but perhaps not surprising, to a lot of people, myself included.

 

I trust that Peco’s production priorities are more attuned to your needs.  Either way don’t thumb your nose to those feeling let down.

 

Darius

[Monkersson]

2 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

Bloody great.

 

They can introduce new items that they have no idea whether they will sell or not but cannot produce Bullhead Slips etc. that they well know there is a demand for.

 

Yet again Peco let us down with items promised months and months ago.

 

Dave.

You could always build them yourself, or get someone to build them for you

 

There has been a pandemic you know, and Peco were producing PPE for a good while

 

Its not the end of the world that they have been deferred

Edited June 9, 2021 by Monkersson

[Bomag]

1 hour ago, Darius43 said:

The Peco bullhead range was popular when first introduced and quite a few have planned and started layouts based on it only to have them stalled for lack of current and newly proposed bullhead track from Peco.   
 

This latest news is disappointing, but perhaps not surprising, to a lot of people, myself included.

 

I trust that Peco’s production priorities are more attuned to your needs.  Either way don’t thumb your nose to those feeling let down.

 

Darius

 

No, Peco is not meeting my preferences and regularly disappoints me. However, I don't moan (to much) and just say what would nice (in my case a suitable UK code 40 RTR track system). If Peco produce something I need then fine, if they don't then fine as well. Peco is a very big cottage industry with limited and old(ish) manufacturing processes which are occasionally updated. If it was any bigger it would have properly compete with big manufactures; in its current state it's mostly neutral wrt the big manufactures and found a workable niche.  

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, Monkersson said:

You could always build them yourself, or get someone to build them for you

 

There has been a pandemic you know, and Peco were producing PPE for a good while

 

Its not the end of the world that they have been deferred

 

I was talking to a friend yesterday who works in a model shop.

Apart from the known fact that Peco had turned their production to PPE, they also had an outbreak of Covid so had to close down for a while until it cleared.

As mentioned in their recent statement, they have prioritised production of known good selling products before turning to anything new.

[PaulRhB]

5 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

They can introduce new items that they have no idea whether they will sell or not but cannot produce Bullhead Slips etc. that they well know there is a demand for.

It’s all been announced before except the  recently announced locolift and they know the market for that from the previous version  

I’m waiting on the med bullhead points too but possibly the focus on the best sellers is due to the financial hit they’ve taken during the initial lockdown of no production, adapting the factory and PPE supplies for the staff and resulting limited production since? Remember the visitor centre and gardens etc have been shut as the factory production spread to all other areas for social distancing reasons so they are still losing their normal revenue streams from those. 
Peco would lose sales to other track makers if they don’t supply the core ranges plus they’ve worked hard to establish their US distribution of those too. 
Sounds like they are looking after the business long term and staff for a small inconvenience of waiting a bit on some track products that use the same press.  There’s only the new O gauge structures said to be on hold for now as I guess those machines are flat out on the Parkside, N and 009 ranges? 

[Dungrange]

I think Peco also had a cyber attack last year, which I understand for a while saw them processing orders using spreadsheets.  I don't think it's been an easy year for them, so it's not surprising that some of the new stuff that was planned has been delayed.  There are plenty of comments about the lack of Peco track at certain retailers, so it makes sense that they concentrate on meeting demand for their core ranges first.  Disappointing if you're waiting for a new product to hit the shops, but not the end of the world.

[dasatcopthorne]

On 09/06/2021 at 21:03, Monkersson said:

You could always build them yourself, or get someone to build them for you

 

There has been a pandemic you know, and Peco were producing PPE for a good while

 

Its not the end of the world that they have been deferred

 

Why not try to see another view of this problem.

 

In 2019 Peco displayed single and double slips the two big shows. Yes, they had been put together using parts they had. They were promises for 2020 so I started a layout, buying their Bullhead turnouts and using a flatbottom doubleslip where the Bullhead one would go.

 

Now in 2021 it would seem we will still not get the Bullhead ones till 2022 probably.

 

Just not good enouth

 

Dave.

[Monkersson]

3 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

 

Why not try to see another view of this problem.

 

In 2019 Peco displayed single and double slips the two big shows. Yes, they had been put together using parts they had. They were promises for 2020 so I started a layout, buying their Bullhead turnouts and using a flatbottom doubleslip where the Bullhead one would go.

 

Now in 2021 it would seem we will still not get the Bullhead ones till 2022 probably.

 

Just not good enouth

 

Dave.

Its not a problem though is it?  Its a disappointment at worst.

 

Many, many, many things that were promised for 2020 have been delayed/deferred due to the pandemic, including life saving medical equipment and drugs. 

 

Would you rather Peco carried on making model railway items or potentially life-saving PPE?  Would you rather they demanded their staff were working throughout their own Covid outbreak?  Would that be good enough?

 

Why not try to see the wider picture

 

 

[Jeff Smith]

3 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

Just not good enouth

 

A bit harsh......  I think over the years Peco has produced excellent products, many of which have stood the test of time.  Some sourcing is from abroad but most production is UK based.  You may well be disappointed for your project, as I'm sure others are, but looking forward how many companies reliably provide the same products over many many years rather than doing one batch that sells out before even being available?  

[dasatcopthorne]

Most posters who disagree with me have missed the point.

 

Which was:

Peco showed these items in mid 2019 and they are still not available whereas some other new items are coming on-line. Long before Covid.

 

Dave.

[woodenhead]

On 11/06/2021 at 15:01, dasatcopthorne said:

 

Why not try to see another view of this problem.

 

In 2019 Peco displayed single and double slips the two big shows. Yes, they had been put together using parts they had. They were promises for 2020 so I started a layout, buying their Bullhead turnouts and using a flatbottom doubleslip where the Bullhead one would go.

 

Now in 2021 it would seem we will still not get the Bullhead ones till 2022 probably.

 

Just not good enouth

 

Dave.

A bit unfair I feel, by your own admission the points shown in 2019 were handbuilt examples - it takes time to get from there to a production version and then Covid hit.

 

Peco had to repurpose a lot of it's property to keep people working in a socially distanced manner and demand for existing track has been very high as everyone went modelling mad in 2020.

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

On 11/06/2021 at 15:01, dasatcopthorne said:

 

Why not try to see another view of this problem.

 

In 2019 Peco displayed single and double slips the two big shows. Yes, they had been put together using parts they had. They were promises for 2020 so I started a layout, buying their Bullhead turnouts and using a flatbottom doubleslip where the Bullhead one would go.

 

Now in 2021 it would seem we will still not get the Bullhead ones till 2022 probably.

 

Just not good enouth

 

Dave.

 

Not good enough for what or who?

 

If Peco start making BH points & crossings while their regular sellers are in short supply, they will lose out on more sales than they would make from their new products. From a business point of view, this would certainly be "not good enough".

 

If I wanted a BH crossing urgently, I would either look at an alternative like C&L or learn how to scratchbuild one.

[JohnR]

I see the new Parkside tank wagon kits are just awaiting transfers. given these are supplied by ModelMaster, that might explain the delay.

[The Stationmaster]

50 minutes ago, dasatcopthorne said:

Most posters who disagree with me have missed the point.

 

Which was:

Peco showed these items in mid 2019 and they are still not available whereas some other new items are coming on-line. Long before Covid.

 

Dave.

I too am waiting for the single slips but I wonder how many other models which were announced in 2019, or previously, have yet to appear on retailers' shelves?   Effectively we can discount the past 14 months from any delay on Peco's part because of the impact of Covid.  And now we can add more time to the date of these items finally appearing because they have had to resstructure their production facility to take account of Covid and they are struggling to catch up a massive backlog in demand for existing products.

 

I have hada v v bullhead single slip on pre-order with my most local retailer for over a year and I probably won't see it this year the way things are going but it is hardly fair to blame Peco who have had serious problems placed on them by i things totally beyond their control.  Or are Peco to blame for Covid entering the UK?

[Wheatley]

56 minutes ago, dasatcopthorne said:

Most posters who disagree with me have missed the point.

 

Which was:

Peco showed these items in mid 2019 and they are still not available whereas some other new items are coming on-line. Long before Covid.

 

Dave.

 

No we haven't. Most of the new things (Wills stone sheets and Parkside kits ?) have a production process which is essentially taking the sprue of the machine and putting it in a packet. Track on the other hand is a largely manual assembly process using  skilled staff. If they're flat out making core items they can't be making bullhead slips at the same time. If you have backorders for everything and Setrack/ code 100 Streamline outsells everything else by at least 10 to 1, which are you going to prioritise ?  

[RBAGE]

I would suggest that you take a walk on the wild side and have a look at these kits. It looks like the range will develop a lot quicker than PECO bullhead range and you might enjoy the assembly.

The point bases can be adjusted to produce curved points. Diamonds and slips are in the plan and the prices are considerably lower than PECO bullhead.

I started building with PECO bullhead and I am sick of waiting for diamonds. I am aware that there has been a pandemic and that PECO have redirected their production to support but these crossings were promised long before COVID-19. Yes, it's not the end of the world but it's not surprising that people were frustrated about delays, long before the current issues.

Although the linked product is compatible with PECO bullhead, I have lifted all my PECO points, with some losses. I plan to replace with Finetrax product because of their ability to be used to produce "flowing" formations relatively easily, because the lead times for new products is expected to be better than PECO and because of the price.

I already have 6 and they looks superb.

Don't take my word for it. Have a look. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by RBAGE
All things are relative

[Dungrange]

1 hour ago, dasatcopthorne said:

Most posters who disagree with me have missed the point.

 

Which was:

Peco showed these items in mid 2019 and they are still not available whereas some other new items are coming on-line.

 

I think the only person missing the point is you. 

 

Covid has forced Peco to adapt, which means changing their entire production set up.  For example, relocating some staff to working in what was formerly Pecorama to meet social distancing requirements.  Some new products, like the bullhead slips that you are waiting for, will require the use of tools that are being used to produce other track items that are already in the range but in short supply at retailers.  What this means is that Peco can produce either, or: not both.  That is, they don't have the production capacity at the moment to produce both lines of track simultaneously.  Peco will know what the demand from retailers is for the various products in their range and although you may disagree, I suspect that there are many more modellers out there looking for a Code 100 medium turnout than there are looking for a bullhead slip.  Peco will therefore prioritise where the demand actually is, not where you think it should be based on your own wants.  It's also fair to highlight that it will also be far easier for Peco to produce an existing item than one that wasn't quite finished and ready for production when Covid hit.  In the time it will take them to expand the bullhead range with test pieces, they can probably produce a few hundred / thousand of an existing product.  It should therefore be obvious what a good manager would prioritise.

 

Yes, there may be other items announced that are not being delayed but that will be because they use different tools and therefore won't be subject to the same production constraints.

 

The real point is that any promises from 2019 should be ignored - they are no longer relevant.  In an ideal world, Peco would address the issue of delays to bullhead slips by purchasing additional production tools to allow them to ramp up production of the necessary components, but sadly we are not living in ideal times.

 

That therefore means that you either have to learn to be patient, use a flat bottom version, commission someone to build one for you, or learn how to do it yourself.  However, moaning that 'it's not good enough' won't get you anywhere.

[Oldddudders]

Peco has been a stalwart of the British hobby for 7 decades. That hasn't happened by accident, but by shrewd judgement of what to produce and when. If Peco says Streamline demand is greater than ever, then their idea of priorities is probably the right one. They alone know what they are selling in what quantity, and thus what needs the most support, and that means manufacturing resources, which remain scarce. I imagine that assembling double slips, three-way points and other convenience turnouts takes proportionally longer than a simple point, while sales are much lower.

 

Peco knows what it is doing. To them it puts bread on the table. To us it's just a hobby. 

[RBAGE]

I accept that PECO are making a business decision and that's as it should be, but to suggest that they are a benevolent organisation, dedicated to the "British hobby" is a mistake.

Being a cynical old individual, might I suggest that their priorities, quite rightly, are not driven now, as they have not been driven in seven decades, by the "British hobby". 

Why do you suppose it has taken seven decades to provide a product designed for the "British hobby"?

I suspect that their priorities are driven, quite rightly, by other markets, most notably the American hobby.

 

PECO do know what they are doing, and they have been doing it for seven decades. Apparently.