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Is this concrete garage useable, repairable or condemnable?


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Following this thread with interest.Still undecided to either have a garden room insulated etc or a concrete shed  and insulate that add power and light.Looked at sheds and wonder about the best base for them wooden platform provide by shed firm during installation,flags or a concrete base my least favoured option  prices have gone up and delivery/installation dates are effected by covid

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I had an old brick built garage on the property I moved into in September 2019. After inspection , it turned out to be in poor condition - one wall was about to fall down. It could have been repaired at some costs, so I had it demolished, had a concrete slab laid over the existing slab, which was in reasonable condition but no really suitable as a floor. I bought a Lidget Compton concrete garage, replaced the up and over door with a single outward opening 3 feet wide central door, and  then bought and lined the walls with Gyproc Thermaline wallboard 35 mm thick. There is a fake tile ridged roof, lined inside with 3 mm ply following the roof profile and insulated above.

The shed has three opening windows. The floor is a laminate but under is an insulation layer sold by B&Q. Pic below shows it painted just as baseboard construction work started (I know it is a bit over engineered on the baseboard front, but it isn't going anywhere and is very rigid once constructed.

It obviously gets warm in summer and cold in winter when not in use. Currently it is 25 degrees, 50% humidity. Two windows face the sun from mid-morning to early afternoon which is why it tends to warm up. I have blinds and the glass is lined with UV protective film (which doesn't do anything for heat transmission but is probably useful for the models).

Opening the window and door and running a fan keeps temperatures down, although with difficulty in current weather - okay most times. It will go up to about 30 degrees today, perhaps a touch more, which is a little uncomfortable for working. In cold weather I have a 2 Kw oil filled radiator. When really cold, I have it on a timer so that by the time I want to go in the shed is reasonable. I could get more carried away, but am conscious of the electricity cost.

Lighting is LED slabs, a type intended to replace office fluorescent ceiling lighting, but mounted on a support - very effective and cost next to nothing to run.

Total cost of the operation was a little under £12,000.

Hope that helps with ideas.

200725 ready to start.jpg

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I have a 9' x 15' Heavy duty Workshop (Barnwell) supplied by Addison Ouesbank now based in Louth. The product ordered was with 15mm T&G redwood cladding with 50mm insulation and lined with 9mm MDF. Floor is 18mm thickness V313 moisture resistant caberboard floor (now overlaid with carpet tiles). The workshop was installed onto a pre-existing paved surface.  Todays cost would be £4753 - including installation to a MK postcode.  Additionally there is a side door installed on mine that was about £160 extra. I do not use the main double doors since the base boards were installed.  

 

Heating is supplied by a Dimplex PFH30E 3kW Garage Fan Heater with Bluetooth Control. Cost is about £155. This is fully programmable with background level heating, and the ability to program a start time and temperature. It automatically brings the room up to that temperature by the specified time. 

Additionally, I also have a Tubular Heater 1500mm 190w Slimline Eco c/w Built-in Thermostat. Cost was about £40. I tend to use that for overnight heating in the winter.  This is attached to a wooden frame so that it can be position in the middle of the shed and moved out of the way when the room is being used. 

 

Lighting is 6x Slimline LED Batten lights (4000K). This is more than ample. Costs were about £20 each.  These I installed into the slope of the roof (i.e. from side wall to roof apex). 

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1 hour ago, KCL said:

I have a 9' x 15' Heavy duty Workshop (Barnwell) supplied by Addison Ouesbank now based in Louth. The product ordered was with 15mm T&G redwood cladding with 50mm insulation and lined with 9mm MDF. Floor is 18mm thickness V313 moisture resistant caberboard floor (now overlaid with carpet tiles). The workshop was installed onto a pre-existing paved surface.  Todays cost would be £4753 - including installation to a MK postcode.  Additionally there is a side door installed on mine that was about £160 extra. I do not use the main double doors since the base boards were installed.  

 

Heating is supplied by a Dimplex PFH30E 3kW Garage Fan Heater with Bluetooth Control. Cost is about £155. This is fully programmable with background level heating, and the ability to program a start time and temperature. It automatically brings the room up to that temperature by the specified time. 

Additionally, I also have a Tubular Heater 1500mm 190w Slimline Eco c/w Built-in Thermostat. Cost was about £40. I tend to use that for overnight heating in the winter.  This is attached to a wooden frame so that it can be position in the middle of the shed and moved out of the way when the room is being used. 

 

Lighting is 6x Slimline LED Batten lights (4000K). This is more than ample. Costs were about £20 each.  These I installed into the slope of the roof (i.e. from side wall to roof apex). 

Thanks for that, considering a garden office / train room myself, I see their standard 8x18 workshop would be around 3K in basic form, insulated walls and roof add another 2K.  Whilst I don't think going without any insulation would be a good idea I could buy a heck of a lot of heating and cooling for 2K. Will have to have a ponder and work out what part of SWMBO's garden I can annex.

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9 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Thanks for that, considering a garden office / train room myself, I see their standard 8x18 workshop would be around 3K in basic form, insulated walls and roof add another 2K.  Whilst I don't think going without any insulation would be a good idea I could buy a heck of a lot of heating and cooling for 2K. Will have to have a ponder and work out what part of SWMBO's garden I can annex.

 

However much heating that £2000 would get you, still not a good idea to not insulate. Heating an uninsulated building equals condensation which is not a good environment for our activities.

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I designed and built this from scratch. 

 

37A69A20-4393-46B7-A8DC-CE925E8D10B5.jpeg.40d888ca45eea3730838695916773138.jpeg

 

it’s a bit darker now as it has has several wood treatments. The building complies with the then building regs and was inspected. Also planning was needed. The base is a raft foundation with steel reinforcement. The building itself is framed with the same graded wood as used in roof trusses and has a log lap effect to the facing sides, the boundary sides are clad with industrial cladding to comply with fire regs to boundaries. It is lined with plasterboard and is wall papered and painted white. The ceiling is also plaster boarded and artexed. Windows and doors are double glazed with high security locks. The floor is insulated with jablite with a floating water repellent chip board. Electrics are fed by a underground armoured cable which runs in piping. Also all other cables like cctv, network and alarm run in another underground pipe. Roof is felt shingles with a 30/40 year life and has another bitumen lining product under it and is mounted on osb which is painted in bitumen paint. Air conditioning was installed and is cheep to run. Carpet tiles are used on the floor originally was carpet but changed this as carpet tiles can easily be changed out if damaged. Costs around £20000 but is very high spec and if built by a builder would cost double or more, when I built it a shed supply company quoted at least £1000 for the jablite floating floor actual materials was around £250/300. The point of this is story is consider building yourself if you have the skills, when I did mine I researched everything and felt confident in doing the build, and saved a massive amount of money. Only thing I did not install was the Aircon as this requires a certified company to install. Electrics are also installed to IEE wiring regs which I did but are signed off.

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10 hours ago, Andymsa said:

The point of this is story is consider building yourself if you have the skills, when I did mine I researched everything and felt confident in doing the build, and saved a massive amount of money.

Excellent build Andy.

 

As you say building a shed is actually a really simple construction with minimal tools and no doubt within the skillset of a lot of people. :good:

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21 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

However much heating that £2000 would get you, still not a good idea to not insulate. Heating an uninsulated building equals condensation which is not a good environment for our activities.

Absolutely, more a question of how to achieve insulation of some standard, and more importantly IMHO ventilation, maybe without spending 2K on it.

Edited by spamcan61
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Late to this topic but just a thought.

How about considering the loft rather than an outside building. Had our 1980's semi with a trussed roof made into a railway room with loft ladder access which voided the occupied room questions. Handy being in the house for security, heating included in the existing system, no walk to the end of the garden on wet windy winter nights and the wife found it handy to be able to moan at me without leaving the house!!

Leave the existing garage for storage if required until it actually expires? 

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1 hour ago, Haddocksrock said:

Late to this topic but just a thought.

How about considering the loft rather than an outside building.

 

with loft ladder access which voided the occupied room questions. 

 

Lofts are a subject best avoided as there are those of us who understand the implications of poor conversions and those that don't seem to care.

 

Re- the Sentence in Bold. 

The use of a loft ladder does not mean that you do not have to adhere to building regulations, in fact it actually restricts the use of the room for storage purposes only and not one for either habitable or hobby purposes. 

A loft conversion turns a 2 storey house into a 3 storey, and the means of escape in case of fire is an important part of the current regs.

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Thank for the observations. We checked with the local council regarding our plans and had it accepted. Their take on it was that it was basically up grading the loft area with power, insulation and flooring. With a model railway in there the use would be intermittent akin to taking items into and out of a normal loft space and not permanently in domestic use. Their only query was the rooflight had to be on the rear roof slope so as not to overlook other properties. 

Being in the roofing industry and using a loft conversion specialist we were aware of how and where to strengthen the roof structure and ceilings to take additional loads plus venting the remaining roof space. If it had been intended as an occupied space a staircase and firedoors would have to be provided. 

When we sold the property the estate agent would not list it as an additional room (not that we wanted them too) instead listing it as roof storage area. The buyers had the property surveyed and their surveyor was happy that it was not intended as an additional room. I believe the new owners were going to use it as an art studio workspace.

Totally agree that specialist advice is needed before considering use of the roof space.

Edited by Haddocksrock
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3 minutes ago, Haddocksrock said:

When we sold the property the estate agent would not list it as an additional room (not that we wanted them too) instead listing it as roof storage area. The buyers had the property surveyed and their surveyor was happy that it was not intended as an additional room. I believe the new owners were going to use it as an art studio workspace.

 

And therein lies the rub. You listed and sold it as a storage space, the purchasers surveyor confirmed that but the new owners intention to use as an art studio would be in contravention of the current regs.

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Intermittent use not permanent domestic use i.e. bedroom

Regs are there to rightly stop that sort of use on the cheap.

If not you would not be allowed to access your own loft.

Edited by Haddocksrock
Important missing word 'not' lol
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3 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

Absolutely, more a question of how to achieve insulation of some standard, and more importantly IMHO ventilation, maybe without spending 2K on it.

I insulated the roof and floor of mine earlier in the year, with 50mm Celotex - it's the same concept as the one @Regularity is buying, 44mm log walls with 19mm roof and floor.

 

I've just been out there, on one of the hottest days of the year (and after it has been in full sun all day), and it's quite warm inside - this time last year it was unbearably hot, so it's a lot different!

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On 18/07/2021 at 15:03, spamcan61 said:

Thanks for that, considering a garden office / train room myself, I see their standard 8x18 workshop would be around 3K in basic form, insulated walls and roof add another 2K.  Whilst I don't think going without any insulation would be a good idea I could buy a heck of a lot of heating and cooling for 2K. Will have to have a ponder and work out what part of SWMBO's garden I can annex.


unfortunately off the shelf solutions are much more expensive 2k for insulation is way over priced I think and proves the point of doing it yourself. And you get the satisfaction of knowing it’s done properly. ( as long as you don’t cut corners)

Edited by Andymsa
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2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

Lofts are a subject best avoided as there are those of us who understand the implications of poor conversions and those that don't seem to care.

 

Re- the Sentence in Bold. 

The use of a loft ladder does not mean that you do not have to adhere to building regulations, in fact it actually restricts the use of the room for storage purposes only and not one for either habitable or hobby purposes. 

A loft conversion turns a 2 storey house into a 3 storey, and the means of escape in case of fire is an important part of the current regs.


and could void any house insurance 

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2 hours ago, Haddocksrock said:

Intermittent use not permanent domestic use i.e. bedroom

Regs are there to rightly stop that sort of use on the cheap.

If not you would not be allowed to access your own loft.


the trouble is what is defined as intermittent use. A garage or bedroom could be said to be used intermittently. But putting a railway in the loft could be looked on as not intermittent use. To put a railway in a loft needs a proper conversion to comply with all aspects of regulations and insurance. A shed or building would possibly be a much cheaper solution. And regardless of how much insulation in a loft there is, it is still too far warm in summer.

Edited by Andymsa
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If you're doing the insulation yourself, look for a company called seconds and Co, the sell factory seconds or returned insulation, it's been a while since I used them but you can make significant savings with them. 

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I notice nothing much has been said about exterior wood treatment. Not sure what is seen as the best to ensure these wooden buildings last but compared to other options I have found Architectural Solignum to be worth considering. It’s not cheap - nearly £100 for the 5ltr tin I recently got - but a small summerhouse I have had in the garden since 1993 seems to have benefitted from using it compared to the garden sheds, which have needed replacing in the same timeframe. Just a coat about every 5-7 years or so.

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Access via a loft ladder thro a loft hatch seems to be the defining factor.

Install a staircase and it would then become part of the domestic occupied home with all of the regulations that are rightly required.

Also if you were to use it as a domestic room with all the likely weight that comes with that i.e. bed, wardrobe, chairs etc plus more than one or two people then the structural implications become far more important and expensive.

In my case structural work, insulation, rooflight, power, radiator, modifications to the roof for ventilation, flooring, plasterboarding, decent loftladder came to about £4000 (1999) and gave me a 20' X 15' space. Heat wasn't a problem winter or summer.

Worked for me is all I am saying.

BTW when we moved my empire shrank to a boxroom 8' X 8' lol

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52 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I notice nothing much has been said about exterior wood treatment. Not sure what is seen as the best to ensure these wooden buildings last but compared to other options I have found Architectural Solignum to be worth considering. It’s not cheap - nearly £100 for the 5ltr tin I recently got - but a small summerhouse I have had in the garden since 1993 seems to have benefitted from using it compared to the garden sheds, which have needed replacing in the same timeframe. Just a coat about every 5-7 years or so.


my building gets a coat of sadlin every year or two years and is still good after 21 years

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Another point to bear in mind when selecting possible locations is ease of access when we enivitably grow older - that loft ladder may not be so easy as our bodies/joints age - what is easy now may not be so in 20 or even 10 years time.

Knees also suffer, making duck unders into creak unders.

Access to the far corners/sides of the layout - will we still be able to rach in later years.

 

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2 hours ago, SamThomas said:

Another point to bear in mind when selecting possible locations is ease of access when we enivitably grow older - that loft ladder may not be so easy as our bodies/joints age - what is easy now may not be so in 20 or even 10 years time.

Knees also suffer, making duck unders into creak unders.

Access to the far corners/sides of the layout - will we still be able to rach in later years.

 

Good point! 

I must admit being able to walk straight into a room is nice and convenient. Although it doesn't makeup for having to give up my 'boyhood dream' 20' X 15' Hornby Dublo 3R layout for an L shaped 8' X 3' N gauge one. 

Such is life lol

 

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