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Is this concrete garage useable, repairable or condemnable?


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I'm planning to insulate my shed later this year. It's 20' x 8', and will be 50mm Celotex on walls and ceiling, and 25mm on the floor. Walls will be covered with MDF, floor with ply. Last time I got a quote it was just under £1000 for the materials. Probably more like £1200 now though, the way the prices of all building materials seem to be rising. 

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Progress “update” - although it’s maybe “Progress” update.
Shed components are delivered tomorrow. Have done most of the digging out of the garden where it intruded into the space - including removing some dry stone retaining walls. A little bit more digging for the replacement (re-built) wall foundations a “french drain” around the perimeter, and then it’s time to level-off the ground (trampling!) and fitting base, before cutting back/down the overhanging elder tree. 
Then I can start assembling the shed! (Two people, 2-3 days). Then get power connected. Then shift “stuff” out of the garage into the shed. Then get rid of the garage. Then attend to other parts of the house.
Might do some actual modelling this century!
Photos will follow.

Sometime.

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10 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

It might seem like a lot effort now, but at least you know that when you get to the modelling it will be all uphill.

 

:jester:

Since the garden is on a slope, the digging has been uphill.

I wonder if you mean downhill, though, Mikkel?

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It was attempted tongue in cheek. I don't do sarcasm very well though!

 

It's good to hear of the progress and, having just read one of your blog posts, I hope it gives you much satisfaction.

 

Thanks also for the reminder of Rosehearty by the way.

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Hi Mikel,

 

I did wonder, but I also wondered if it was a language problem. I spent a week on a course with a Belgian guy once, who had learned some of his English from Americans, and wondered why we laughed when he said “back side”. The language barrier there was between English and American, of course.

 

And yes, it is providing some satisfaction (thank you for that reference!) as well as fresh air and exercise but I certainly wouldn’t describe shifting a few cubic metres of clay as fun!

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Re the time scale of the build. Having done this myself I can say that 3 days will see the basic structure up with two people working on it. However, more time will be required to fit the insulation to the floor and then the floorboards down. The next big task is the roof insulation and then fitting the shingles. I would allow another two days to get all this done.

 

But it will all be worth the effort!

 

One other tip. Don't skimp on the cost of preservative. Buy the best you can afford. I went with Osmo. It is expensive but I feel worth it. 

 

Cheers, Ade.

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3 hours ago, Adrian Stevenson said:

Don't skimp on the cost of preservative. Buy the best you can afford. I went with Osmo. It is expensive but I feel worth it. 

Don't spoil the ship for a ha'pennorth of tar...

 

I ordered some with the delivery, but may add more. A friend's advice was, "preservative, preservative, preservative".

I now have a pile of milled timber next to the garage, wrapped up in tarpaulin!

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On 10/06/2021 at 21:08, Sir TophamHatt said:


But that's also an old fashioned way of thinking.

While important to not devalue a house too much (or spend too much money on something), you also want to live and use it.

I've come across people who decorate their houses in certain ways to "add value" but they don't like the style.

The real value is having something YOU value, not thinking about what the new buyers may value...  considering a house sale probably isn't on the cards as the OP has just moved.

 

I have to agree with Sir Topham, it's a myth perpetuated by the numerous "property porn" shows on daytime TV, neutral colours, nothing that might be considered interesting, the place smelling of fresh bread.

 

Judging from my area, the skip lorry is arriving as the empty removal van departs, people don't really care how a house is decorated, they start knocking down walls, adding extensions as soon as they move in anyway.

 

jh

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John

 

We sold our property five and a half years ago, thanks to my wife we gave the interior and exterior woodwork a fresh lick of paint over the previous 12 months, plus we decluttered the property. We did exactly as they suggest neutral colours and as I said decluttered to make it look bigger. The house had a viewing day on the Saturday and bids by mid pm Monday

 

We actually got a much higher price than 2 close neighbours whose houses were much the same as ours, one sold a couple of months after us the other's 12 months later, what we did not do was spend much money.

 

We bought a house which was also had a lick of paint and new (cheap) carpets. again neutral colours

 

We remodelled and enlarged the downstairs and I guess to your delight painted everything white, I was unsure if it would work, but it does. The only room which had coloured paint (our bedroom) is going to be painted a much lighter colour.

 

Having seen quite a few houses prior to deciding on the one we bought, seeing a clean, neutrally painted house without clutter did help us to make a decision, simply we could see the potential

 

The people to copy are the professional house builders, they know what sells !!!

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Thanks to this thread I now know excessive heat due to the flat roof and then the dew point is one of (the?) main reason for damp in our garage. I spotted this auto window opener* on sale in our local garden centre this morning but nowhere in the instructions does it say where the solar panel is that charges it.
 

Does anyone know how much light solar devices need as in a garage there is not the all round light of a greenhouse. I have seen alternative options that are just heat/expansion triggered. Just assessing our options.


* link is to same model on Amazon.

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20 minutes ago, john new said:

Thanks to this thread I now know excessive heat due to the flat roof and then the dew point is one of (the?) main reason for damp in our garage. I spotted this auto window opener* on sale in our local garden centre this morning but nowhere in the instructions does it say where the solar panel is that charges it.
 

Does anyone know how much light solar devices need as in a garage there is not the all round light of a greenhouse. I have seen alternative options that are just heat/expansion triggered. Just assessing our options.


* link is to same model on Amazon.

That looks like one of the heat/expansion ones - I think they're over-egging it with the solar energy bit, as the sun heats the greenhouse, and so makes it expand and open...

 

We've got one (not that particular make) on our greenhouse, and it works pretty well.

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27 minutes ago, Nick C said:

That looks like one of the heat/expansion ones - I think they're over-egging it with the solar energy bit, as the sun heats the greenhouse, and so makes it expand and open...

 

We've got one (not that particular make) on our greenhouse, and it works pretty well.

Ah, that explains it. Clever (misleading) wording on the box.

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I've got one of those in my greenhouse and it does work in that the window is more open on a hot day than a cold one. although I've never seen it as wide open as illustrated.

 

The sealed black painted cylinder apparently contains some sort of gas.  It sits under a hinged skylight and will catch the sun no matter which way the greenhouse faces.  When the sun warms the gas in the cylinder it expands enough to open this window.  So solar powered is probably a valid claim.  Hot air in the greenhouse will rise & escape through this vent and so presumably the theory is that the greenhouse doesn't get too hot as excessive heat is convected away more with the window further open.  In practice I probably control the heat better by sliding the door open on a hot day.

 

I wouldn't think this was suitable for a flat roofed garage, and I doubt the cylinder would have the strength to do much more than adjust the position of a single small pane of 3mm glass as it is intended for.

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2 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I've got one of those in my greenhouse and it does work in that the window is more open on a hot day than a cold one. although I've never seen it as wide open as illustrated.

 

The sealed black painted cylinder apparently contains some sort of gas.  It sits under a hinged skylight and will catch the sun no matter which way the greenhouse faces.  When the sun warms the gas in the cylinder it expands enough to open this window.  So solar powered is probably a valid claim.  Hot air in the greenhouse will rise & escape through this vent and so presumably the theory is that the greenhouse doesn't get too hot as excessive heat is convected away more with the window further open.  In practice I probably control the heat better by sliding the door open on a hot day.

 

I wouldn't think this was suitable for a flat roofed garage, and I doubt the cylinder would have the strength to do much more than adjust the position of a single small pane of 3mm glass as it is intended for.

I had my doubts as the window it would be fitted to if I bought one is a top hung one in the north facing end wall. I was thinking of a solar powered thing with an electric motor. The feed back above confirms it isn't worth trialling for me, so thank you all for the explanations/ feedback.

 

Although thermostat controlled extractor-fans are more expensive I am guessing they will prove a better bet. 

Edited by john new
To make better sense.
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The link is to a Greenhouse auto opener. They're actually very reliable and work with fairly heavy windows. We currently have a cedar green house with 2 roof lights with these as openers and they have no difficulty in raising the window frame.

 

What you have to remember to do is slacken the pump adjuster in the winter when they're not required to open, when the weather warms up you wait until it's cool in the evening then wind the adjuster until it's just starting to open then back it off a turn, this resets the pump to open as soon as the air within starts to warm up.

 

A few years ago I was a joinery shop foreman and we used these in ridge vents for conservatorys, they had to lift a 300mm x 1.5m sheet of ply to vent to roof and they did so with ease and no maintenance. It was very unusual to have one fail.

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Hoping the OP ( @Regularity ) doesn't mind me re-opening this thread again but it seems pointless to start a new one when a lot of useful info is already in here.

 

Step 1 - in improving my garage to make it more useable as a hobby and workshop space will be completed by the roofers on the next dry day. (Just the top GRP finishing coat left to add) This step has been replacing the original, uninsulated, flat felt/GRP roof from when the house was first built in 1974. It was recoated IIRC in the early 1990s but had split the felt and begun to leak, we have now had it upgraded and replaced with a "warm", i.e. insulated, new covering. Now there is more point to having it I will look again this summer at the options for window open/closers.

 

Step 2 - I know from research like the posters above it is about controlling the internal dew-point to stop condensation and resultant mould. There already is a properly wired power socket installed and for the interim I will start up the oil-fired Dimplex style radiator I have used previously. The easy bit would just be to fit a socket timer/adaptor, as I have at least one (and probably more) in stock. Would one of the similar type of plug into the wall socket devices, but with a built in thermostat be better? Any advice on makes and options would be very helpful as a Google search gives several types and prices. 

 

Step 3  - for the longer term, when/if cash is available it will be additional power outlets and a temperature controlled extractor fan. Further down the line too, upgrades to the smaller secondary hinged door and for the really longer time ahead - a new insulated floor and perhaps insulation for the breeze block walls. 

 

Thanks in advance for any help provided.

 

Edited by john new
Clarity and a typo.
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1 hour ago, john new said:

Hoping the OP ( @Regularity ) doesn't mind me re-opening this thread again but it seems pointless to start a new one when a lot of useful info is already in here.

 

Step 1 - in improving my garage to make it more useable as a hobby and workshop space will be completed by the roofers on the next dry day. (Just the top GRP finishing coat left to add) This step has been replacing the original, uninsulated, flat felt/GRP roof from when the house was first built in 1974. It was recoated IIRC in the early 1990s but had split the felt and begun to leak, we have now had it upgraded and replaced with a "warm", i.e. insulated, new covering. Now there is more point to having it I will look again this summer at the options for window open/closers.

 

Step 2 - I know from research like the posters above it is about controlling the internal dew-point to stop condensation and resultant mould. There already is a properly wired power socket installed and for the interim I will start up the oil-fired Dimplex style radiator I have used previously. The easy bit would just be to fit a socket timer/adaptor, as I have at least one (and probably more) in stock. Would one of the similar type of plug into the wall socket devices, but with a built in thermostat be better? Any advice on makes and options would be very helpful as a Google search gives several types and prices. 

 

Step 3  - for the longer term, when/if cash is available it will be additional power outlets and a temperature controlled extractor fan. Further down the line too, upgrades to the smaller secondary hinged door and for the really longer time ahead - a new insulated floor and perhaps insulation for the walls. 

 

Thanks in advance for any help provided.

 

Thanks for reminding me. I had a flat warm roof fitted to my garage over 10 years ago and I think it probably needs re-proofing. I can't remember the name of the process used but it involves painting on a water proof resin based paint?

 

I have  a Dimplex fan heater plugged into a socket mounted thermostat. The heater is set at 1Kw and the thermostat at 10 degrees. For humidity control I have a dessicating de-humidifier ( they work well at low temeratures) and I empty the reseroir every 2-3 days. I decided on a fan heater as it distributes the warm air around the room rather than it pooling at ceiling level with an oil filled radiator. For additional heating there is a second fan heater which combined with the original one , just turn the thermostat up, soon gets the temperature to a comfortable level. The walls and floor are also insulated and I calculated that a 1Kw heater could maintain a temperature 16 degrees above ambient, The de-humidifier maintains a steady 40% humidity.

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10 hours ago, john new said:

...a temperature controlled extractor fan...

All my 'clean room' experience suggests that a fan to move air into the room is the better way if it's for summer cooling.

Select an intake point where the air will be coolest.

Put a filter on the input to stop dust coming in. That will need regular replacement

 

The spectacular collection of 'dust' on extractor fans to the point that they fail to be effective after a couple of years is something of a bee in my bonnet...

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I have been interested in this post as we moved home 8 years ago. Initial plans were to remove the railway from the home into a purpose built shed outside. Security, heat and damp were my main concern and I received quotes for a purpose built shed. (We have a dedicated shed building company in the village). The cost in my opinion was quite high, especially when other costs were added in.

 

At the same time we were planning a rear extension and the costs of enlarging the extension over the footprint of the proposed shed were explored. As it happens it was certainly no more expensive and at the same time we went the whole hog and remodeled the downstairs house layout. My work room is accessed off the family room and is part of the central heating layout. We ended up with a slightly bigger kitchen and my work room a couple of square meters smaller, but its dry, secure and warm and not accessed from the outside. Lastly can easily be converted into a snug/office or bedroom by those who come on after, or even a downstairs single bedroom if one of us cannot manage the stairs in the future.  

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