Is this concrete garage useable, repairable or condemnable?

[hayfield]

10 hours ago, doilum said:

My own 9x5 metre workshop was built from recycled concrete panels. The top end is around 90cms below garden level. I painted the inside and outside with several layers of bitumen paint upto garden level. After very heavy rain there is some ingress of ground water but a raised chipboard floor on treated 3x2 battens has kept the modelling area totally dry at all times. At no time have tools or other equipment rusted or suffered damp damage. Rainfall in sunny West Yorkshire averages 625mm pa.

 

Its not just water ingress from the soil, all joints would need to be sealed, likewise the roof and doors. No doubt if enough effort was put in it could be made to be much better, but is it worth the cost of doing it?

 

"we have decided that the garage in its current location spoils the view from the rear of the house, and have identified a better location with actually more space, but it will have to be built from new. Upside is, it can be done properly from day one. Downside is, the extra cost."

 

Given this new bit of info, the roof would make a nice addition to the new base as described by Crispy

[TheQ]

Yep I too agree with crispy. My brother-in-law is a licenced asbestos stripper, and is very scathing about council jobsworths and asbestos companies touting for business. ( The company he works for only does commercial contracts) If you got a quote it would suddenly be the most dangerous item ever and the bill would go up tremendously.

The latest panic is floor tiles, some had asbestos filler, and people go daft about them . But the asbestos in sealed in the main material, unless you grind it up into dust there will be no problem, a face mask is all that's needed.

 

I have a asbestos roof on the garage to which I did some repairs and cut off some excess left by the original bodgers. Face mask and gloves. Left overs are about to disappear into a concrete patio.

 

As for your garage, it's not going to collapse in your lifetime, if you aren't going to move, I'd just patch it up. Lining the garage will be no different whether the garage is old or new. I've just lined the inside of the workshop part of the garage, osb screwed on the inside of the roof beams  fibreglass insulation stuffed between.

[doilum]

52 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Yep I too agree with crispy. My brother-in-law is a licenced asbestos stripper, and is very scathing about council jobsworths and asbestos companies touting for business. ( The company he works for only does commercial contracts) If you got a quote it would suddenly be the most dangerous item ever and the bill would go up tremendously.

The latest panic is floor tiles, some had asbestos filler, and people go daft about them . But the asbestos in sealed in the main material, unless you grind it up into dust there will be no problem, a face mask is all that's needed.

 

I have a asbestos roof on the garage to which I did some repairs and cut off some excess left by the original bodgers. Face mask and gloves. Left overs are about to disappear into a concrete patio.

 

As for your garage, it's not going to collapse in your lifetime, if you aren't going to move, I'd just patch it up. Lining the garage will be no different whether the garage is old or new. I've just lined the inside of the workshop part of the garage, osb screwed on the inside of the roof beams  fibreglass insulation stuffed between.

 Agreed entirely. If building a new roof the OSB is a definite recommendation as it both prevents condensation drips and gives real support to the Onduline sheets. That said the only time I have experienced drips are after prolonged snow which is quite rare these days. A totally bespoke new building would be nice but is beyond the budget of many modellers. Fixing up is more affordable and should be within the skill set of those capable of building a model railway.

[doilum]

On 09/06/2021 at 23:09, DavidCBroad said:

Check out whether a epacement garage will need planning permission, some do some don't.

A wooden building would seem to be a good idea, we are just having a stable built as a storage unit, 24 X12ft circa £3000 erected,  The key is to have a standard size building, provided by a firm for whom providing and erecting are everyday jobs.   Get a non standard size or have to have a new base built and costs rocket, I think our base is circa £1500.   Your local bodge builder will quote to do it cheaper, except he will hit an expensive and completely unforseen snag or twenty which will bump the bill up to around the price of a reasonable secondhand Ferrari.

This seems a too good to be true price. It could be the basis of a good building but it will need the same upgrades as the concrete garage with insulation, OSB or plywood lining and a raised floor. I would take a close !look at the actual specifications and drawings. If these do not include an OSB under roof ask for one fitting.  These observations are based on my experience of having to re roof and floor my daughter's hay barn. The previous owner of the stables had been short changed by the erectors leaving an under supported Onduline roof which had sagged under the weight of snow with inevitable results. The adjacent stables however had the OSB under roof which, some thirty years later is still good and straight. I wish I had thought of this method when I built my workshop around 14 years ago.

[Nick C]

On 10/06/2021 at 23:12, melmerby said:

Properties  on "Homes under the Hammer" are decorated in the 'current taste' by property developers to make them easier to sell.

A few years back every thing on the programme was devoid of proper colour, they were decorated black, white & grey and looked like they were in mourning for something.

For some reason youngsters seemed to like a lack of proper colours.

The previous owners of our house decorated the whole thing in black and white, with grey carpets. It looked awful!  We're slowly working our way through making it actually homely again...

[john new]

Unlined garages/unlined flat roof giving alternating heat and damp are ****ing disaster. I have one, hence the knowledge. I can only stress what people have said about getting it properly fettled before starting work on a layout. One of these days I will have the cash to get ours properly done, for now I have to live with the problems, too narrow to get the car in and unsuitable for much else.

 

When we had the garage roof redone last time (15-20 years back) it was a cheapish fibreglass overlay, a mistake as it didn't fix underlying issues, but (a) was all we could afford and (b) I didn't understand the problem. The flat roof covering is again deteriorating so we will be forced to do something to properly fix it by next summer at the latest; that will be a proper update with added power sockets and insulation so I finally get the layout space I thought I had bought with the house back in 1986 - 35 years ago! That said we have managed to store some stuff in it.

[doilum]

16 minutes ago, john new said:

Unlined garages/unlined flat roof giving alternating heat and damp are ****ing disaster. I have one, hence the knowledge. I can only stress what people have said about getting it properly fettled before starting work on a layout. One of these days I will have the cash to get ours properly done, for now I have to live with the problems, too narrow to get the car in and unsuitable for much else.

 

When we had the garage roof redone last time (15-20 years back) it was a cheapish fibreglass overlay, a mistake as it didn't fix underlying issues, but (a) was all we could afford and (b) I didn't understand the problem. The flat roof covering is again deteriorating so we will be forced to do something to properly fix it by next summer at the latest; that will be a proper update with added power sockets and insulation so I finally get the layout space I thought I had bought with the house back in 1986 - 35 years ago! That said we have managed to store some stuff in it.

The dreaded "F" word!  Onduline requires a pitch of at least 10 degrees. This works out at around just 12" on a standard 8' garage. Gutters will direct rain water to a suitable butt and irrigate the garden as required. Win win. This can also be the opportunity to include a base plate of treated 4x2 or even 6x2 to sit on top of the concrete panels giving that little bit extra headroom. UPVC cladding will finish it off and support the guttering. The extra headroom then allows for a raised timber floor.

[john new]

10 minutes ago, doilum said:

The dreaded "F" word!  Onduline requires a pitch of at least 10 degrees. This works out at around just 12" on a standard 8' garage. Gutters will direct rain water to a suitable butt and irrigate the garden as required. Win win. This can also be the opportunity to include a base plate of treated 4x2 or even 6x2 to sit on top of the concrete panels giving that little bit extra headroom. UPVC cladding will finish it off and support the guttering. The extra headroom then allows for a raised timber floor.

 

This one is even more of a completely daft design - not only is it flat but it has a raised lip around the edges so water ponds after rainfall despite having gutters fitted. The next repair/replacement will not be like for like.

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Nick C said:

The previous owners of our house decorated the whole thing in black and white, with grey carpets. It looked awful!  We're slowly working our way through making it actually homely again...

 

We sold our previous house at what turned out to be a very advantageous price for us, the area helped plus a pending change in taxation, by the wife had redecorated the house in neutral colours, that and me turning the garage into an insulated(modelling) room with power (a lot of advice from Crispy) certainty helped as the garage room is now a music room

 

We had our current property remodelled and extended downstairs, its all white !!! forget pastel colours. The furniture etc brings the colour in

[Nick C]

1 minute ago, hayfield said:

 

We sold our previous house at what turned out to be a very advantageous price for us, the area helped plus a pending change in taxation, by the wife had redecorated the house in neutral colours, that and me turning the garage into an insulated(modelling) room with power (a lot of advice from Crispy) certainty helped as the garage room is now a music room

 

We had our current property remodelled and extended downstairs, its all white !!! forget pastel colours. The furniture etc brings the colour in

Neutral colours would have been fine - it's the gloss black kitchen units they fitted that look really bad...

[hayfield]

1 minute ago, Nick C said:

Neutral colours would have been fine - it's the gloss black kitchen units they fitted that look really bad...

 The 2 previous properties we bought suffered from flower power in the 60's/70's. Purple Haze being the most prominant

 

Having said this my wife used Laura Ashley wall paper !!!

[doilum]

2 hours ago, john new said:

 

This one is even more of a completely daft design - not only is it flat but it has a raised lip around the edges so water ponds after rainfall despite having gutters fitted. The next repair/replacement will not be like for like.

Sounds like the same architect that designed most English schools in the 1960s. Kept his cousins Brendan and Seamus in permanent employment adding extra layers of bitumen for the next 50 years. 

[Philou]

We've gone for white everywhere and added colour via soft furnishings - it made a change from the shower-room that had been tiled in black when we bought the house - fine - except that the shower-room was windowless!!!

[Enterprisingwestern]

4 hours ago, john new said:

 

This one is even more of a completely daft design - not only is it flat but it has a raised lip around the edges so water ponds after rainfall despite having gutters fitted. The next repair/replacement will not be like for like.

 

Theoretically, it shouldn't be totally flat but have a slight crest in the centre, the whole point of having the guttering, some builders still can't work it out. My daughter's last, rented, house had a large outside store room re- roofed a couple of years ago, it sloped quite spectacularly from North East to South West, with the singular drainpipe being guess where?!!

 

Mike.

[polybear]

On 10/06/2021 at 09:36, hayfield said:

 

.....many ceilings were texture coated with materials which included asbestos. being sealed away they are safe

 

You are quite right to be concerned about the roof, but just follow professional advice on its disposal/continued reuse 

 

I didn't realise until recently that Artex actually stands for Asbestos Reinforced TExtured Coating. 

My own precast concrete shed has a corrugated cement roof, no doubt containing some degree of Asbestos.  When that was found to suffering from condensation and/or leakage issues I did look into disposing of the sheets; the Council simply referred me to an Asbestos removal company who wanted silly money - the Council wouldn't accept it at the tip.  So I re-roofed the shed with box section galvanised steel sheets, then put the cement sheet back on top (with battens in between) - problem solved.

 

How many of us spent Sunday mornings "doing the brakes" - cleaning them out and fitting new pads & shoes, blowing the dust out in the process?  No idea of the type etc., but that was asbestos; the composition was changed some years ago and asbestos outlawed.

 

 

[PatB]

22 hours ago, Nick C said:

The previous owners of our house decorated the whole thing in black and white, with grey carpets. It looked awful!  We're slowly working our way through making it actually homely again...

In my experience, all carpets end up grey in the end.

[PatB]

12 hours ago, polybear said:

 

I didn't realise until recently that Artex actually stands for Asbestos Reinforced TExtured Coating. 

My own precast concrete shed has a corrugated cement roof, no doubt containing some degree of Asbestos.  When that was found to suffering from condensation and/or leakage issues I did look into disposing of the sheets; the Council simply referred me to an Asbestos removal company who wanted silly money - the Council wouldn't accept it at the tip.  So I re-roofed the shed with box section galvanised steel sheets, then put the cement sheet back on top (with battens in between) - problem solved.

 

How many of us spent Sunday mornings "doing the brakes" - cleaning them out and fitting new pads & shoes, blowing the dust out in the process?  No idea of the type etc., but that was asbestos; the composition was changed some years ago and asbestos outlawed.

 

 

I've successfully insulated 2 large sheds (both with tin roofs) by attaching battens/beams to the outside of the existing roof, laid insulation between and then putting a second layer of tin over the lot. The first was 16 years ago and the second 10+. Both remain dry and comfortable. The only downside I can see is that it might raise the height beyond permitted limits in some cases.

[Regularity]

As an update, we decided that as the garage is fairly useless and needs a lot of work, then scrapping and rebuilding is a better idea. This all means we can have it demolished and open up the view of the garden: the concrete floor may be fitted with flagstones to create a patio area.

Have ordered a log-cabin with 44mm thick walls: 5.5mx3.5m. 
Also discovered that the area on one side of the garage has had our clay excuse for soil laid right up to the sides, and over the floor, encouraging seepage into the garage when it rains!

[Regularity]

The log cabin is one of these:

Modetro W5.5m x D3.5m

[smokebox]

Looks ok.  Should be warmer than a draughty garage.

[sjp23480]

Looks nice, I would explore their options for better roofing.  My cabin had normal felt, but 8 years on and it started to deteriorate where the felt is folded over at the bottom of the roof.  It now needs replacing.

 

Steve

[Regularity]

Better roofing ordered: insulation (and for the floor) and shingles.

Previous experiences re-felting shed roof in the previous house have made me averse to such roofing!

[Adrian Stevenson]

My cabin is from Dunster House. Very pleased with it. You may have seen it in my layout thread in the 7mm forum.

[Regularity]

You planted a seed…

[hayfield]

I think this is the best option, not only will you have a much better home for your layout, but you can maximise the use of the garden, which benefits all the family.

 

Whilst perhaps low on your list of priorities it will certainly add to the properties desirability if not value