Embossed plastikard, and the like.....

[sjp23480]

Hello Everyone,

 

I am hoping for a little bit of help regarding embossed plastikard and similar.  I have been trawling the web and RMweb to try to get a feeling for the quality of these materials.  I have a large viaduct to build (7' long x 6" high).  Unfortunately I do not have the patience of @Physicsman to lay stone courses  in Das clay and am looking for a quick but effective alternative.  The finish I am looking to achieve can be seen below.  I am thinking there are three finishes required: large dressed stone blocks for the piers, smaller dressed stone for the arches and liners and brick for the parapet walls

 

I am very familiar with Wills sheets, but their small size and thickness (making cutting difficult) put me off.  I am aware of SE Finecast, Slaters, Redutex, amongst others; I have some brick embossed plastikard (I don't know which brand) but it looks like the mould is quite warn as some of the bricks totally lack relief - although I now we are talking about fractions of mm.

 

Finding good images of these materials on the web has proven quite a challenge.  Can anyone provide their insights and guidance on these materials to guide my decision on which products to buy for this job.

 

Thank you in advance.

Steve

 

[Kris]

Slaters is very thin and easy to cut. 

[spikey]

I tried SE Finecast embossed sheets once and swiftly changed to Slater's, with which I am entirely happy.  Note FWIW that the courses of many of them are very slightly on the slosh i.e. not quite parallel to the long edges of the sheets.   

[stewartingram]

Wills is often quoted as being too thick, but having read the Iain Rice book on building with the material (I forget the title), I copied the cutting jig he made, and that makes the job very easy.

Basically it consists of 2 steel rules, at 90 degrees, screwed to a flat piece of wood. I can post a pic of mine if required.

 

Stewart

[hayfield]

Could you not adapt one of the plastic kits available I doubt if the 6" height would be an issue, just the cost of 7'

[doilum]

Look in the budget tool suppliers for a 30x20 cm set square. Often the printing is poor but that doesn't matter providing it is square.

Find an offcutt of plywood about 40x30cms and a strip of straight hardwood 30cms  long and around 2cms in section.  Glue and screw this to one end of the ply. Invest in a cutting mat and a generous supply of blades for your chosen cutting weapon.

Be aware that Slater's sheets are very rarely printed square so first step is to establish a square edge. Once this is pushed up against the hardwood the budget square will do the rest.

[ColinK]

I’ve used Redutex and been very happy with the results.  It is very easy to cut.

[Chris Turnbull]

I've used Slaters embossed brickwork to great effect.  One thing to think about is how to disguise the vertical joints.  I hid mine behind piers (which meant I had a bit of wastage on each sheet) but I cannot see anywhere obvious on the stonework example you give.  This is worthwhile giving some thought to as a model 7 feet long will have more than a few joints! 

 

Chris Turnbull  

[doilum]

1 hour ago, Chris Turnbull said:

I've used Slaters embossed brickwork to great effect.  One thing to think about is how to disguise the vertical joints.  I hid mine behind piers (which meant I had a bit of wastage on each sheet) but I cannot see anywhere obvious on the stonework example you give.  This is worthwhile giving some thought to as a model 7 feet long will have more than a few joints! 

 

Chris Turnbull  

The top of the arch is the obvious choice in this example.  Horizontal joins are easier to disguise so the "waste" maybe recyclable, especially if one side of the viaduct is hidden from public view.

[eldavo]

That photograph could be turned into a kit of printed parts, much like a Scalescenes kit, it you are not hide bound to having a physical texture on your model.  Needs a bit of perspective tweaking but nothing that can't be done in the Gimp or similar software.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

[t-b-g]

In terms of the style, shape and appearance of the stones I looked at the photo and immediately thought "Wills" sheets would be the closest commercial product I have seen.

 

I haven't used any for a while but my recollection is that once the edges of the sheets had been cleaned up, they would join together with the courses matching and a small amount of filler can make them almost invisible.

 

The retaining walls on Karl Crowther's "Hebble Vale Goods" layout are an excellent example of the effectiveness of the sheets when joined to create larger areas.

 

https://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/layout_hebble.html

 

Has some cracking photos.

[sjp23480]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

Could you not adapt one of the plastic kits available I doubt if the 6" height would be an issue, just the cost of 7'

John,

 

I do have a Wills viaduct kit, which I have considered adapting, but as you say is cost prohibitive at close to £100 for my purposes.

 

I would also have to augment their kit as it has brick liners and needs a brick parapet.  

 

I was thinking about using it as a template but the arches are two small, mine being 130mm wide where as theirs are 114mm. 

 

I also need it to be on a curve of varying radii (36" to 48").  This would mean chopping it into individual arches.  :-(

 

Thank you  for the suggestion and apologies for not making the wider requirements clear in my original question.

 

Steve

 

 

[sjp23480]

17 minutes ago, eldavo said:

That photograph could be turned into a kit of printed parts, much like a Scalescenes kit, it you are not hide bound to having a physical texture on your model.  Needs a bit of perspective tweaking but nothing that can't be done in the Gimp or similar software.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Dave,

 

I am not totally committed to have texture.  Scalescenes provides a great example of what can be done with photo based materials. 

 

I do like your suggestion, but whilst I consider myself reasonably technical, this would be a very steep learning curve having never done this type of thing before.  The viaduct is Dandry Mire and there are plenty of good pictures on the web.  I am fascinated to learn how to get the scale/proportions right.  The version I am building is 1/3rd smaller that the real thing.

 

I will look into some video tutorials on the software you mentioned.

Thank you

Steve

[doilum]

Can I humbly suggest an old school approach? This is never going to be a true scale model of the prototype, so stop worrying and concentrate on the model. First step is to ignore the viaduct and build the track bed to your desired width and necessary radii. Having saved all the Amazon boxes for week or two experiment with mock ups that fit the constraints of the layout whilst retaining the proportions of the original prototype. These can be adjusted to accommodate any baseboard joints. Once you are happy, these can be used as a template for cutting the sides from, perhaps, 3mm MDF. One thing to remember, on a curved viaduct the proportions of the outer arches will be quite different to the inside. This effect is more exaggerated on a model than on the prototype due to the tighter radii involved.

The trick is to do as much as possible with "free" / low cost materials before committing to expensive plastikard.

[stewartingram]

6 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Wills is often quoted as being too thick, but having read the Iain Rice book on building with the material (I forget the title), I copied the cutting jig he made, and that makes the job very easy.

Basically it consists of 2 steel rules, at 90 degrees, screwed to a flat piece of wood. I can post a pic of mine if required.

 

Stewart

Here is a quick run through on my version of the I.Rice jig.

 

Pic1 shows the simple overall construction, actually my 2nd one as the original wore out through repetitive cutting! The steel rules are evidence of this with the rust.

Pic2 shows detail of the rhs. This time I added a cutting mat; the vertical rules are screwed down flush to the mat/wood on top of this. It incorporates two slots where the horizontal rule sits; these are necessary for 'over-runs' of the knife blade, otherwise the blade blunts very quickly. The horizontal rule is spaced off the board with penny washers at either end, to allow the Wills sheet to slide under it; cutting is normally done along the upper edge of the horizontal rule, but sometimes on the lower edge. (Note - the Wills sheet has not been aligned properly with the vertical rule in these pics).

Pic 3 is another view of the slots in the vertical rule.

Pic 4 is the lh end of the horizontal rule; the washers being hidden beneath the rule.

Pic 5 shows the Wills sheet pushed through, beneath the horizontal rule. (Remember the sheet is not quite aligned properly).

I normally use an Exacto craft knife; others may prefer to use the heavier Stanley knife. However, mostly I don't cut right through, just a few strokes to give a heavy score, that allows the piece to be snapped off. It can be dressed with a file if need be.

 

Stewart

 

[Nile]

How do you cut curves, like the arches in the viaduct?

[Derekl]

52 minutes ago, stewartingram said:

Here is a quick run through on my version of the I.Rice jig.

 

Thanks, Stewart, very helpful - I had one of these myself but it rotted away (affected by damp) and I was working out how to recreate it. I notice you have a cut out in the vertical steel rule where it crosses the horizontal. Is this necessary and what is its purpose?

[ianLMS]

Not tried this before, so just an idea! maybe you could take the sheet of Wills and get one of those resin mould kits. I think you could press it into the latex to form the mould, and then pour in plaster/resin to a suitable thickness for strength. That could then provide an endless supply of matching castings?

[sjp23480]

1 hour ago, Nile said:

How do you cut curves, like the arches in the viaduct?

Nile,

 

It is my understanding that the arch dimensions are consistent on both sides of the viaduct - it is the piers that vary in width to accommodate the curve of the structure.  Does that make sense?

 

@Physicsman and his thread on GIll Head has covered this in some detail.

 

Steve

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Nile said:

How do you cut curves, like the arches in the viaduct?

 

I scribe an arc with dividers and then cut them with a piercing saw, as if it was a sheet of brass. The scored line (on the smooth back) helps the saw follow the curve rather than try to go into the mortar/joints on the other side.

[Chris Turnbull]

Cutting the arc shouldn't be a problem as t-b-g says but a more difficult problem will be the voussoirs.  If I have understood Physicsman correctly he has hand made everything, and a splendid job he has made too.  I am not sure that voussoirs are available on a standard embossed sheet; perhaps those with more knowledge than I could advise?

 

Chris Turnbull   

[sjp23480]

1 hour ago, Chris Turnbull said:

Cutting the arc shouldn't be a problem as t-b-g says but a more difficult problem will be the voussoirs.  If I have understood Physicsman correctly he has hand made everything, and a splendid job he has made too.  I am not sure that voussoirs are available on a standard embossed sheet; perhaps those with more knowledge than I could advise?

 

Chris Turnbull   

I agree that they would be difficult to get them from an embossed sheet, although I do recall seeing somewhere a sheet with different arch sizes created - but think these were designed for door and window apertures.

 

I wonder if the voussoirs could be more effectively created by the likes of Scalescenes, where the size of the voussoirs could be scaled to the size of the arch?

 

Failing that, creating the voussoirs from Das clay ala @Physicsman is not such a daunting prospect.

 

Steve

Edited June 10, 2021 by sjp23480
Typo correction

[Sladefan]

I make every building from plasticard and always use Slater's embossed . After many years of using it (and I don't believe I have fully mastered it yet!) is the painting and weathering which can't be rushed and can take as long as the model. The only thing I wouldn't use embossed for are slates/tiles. I make my own from 10thou sheet (not that you will need slates on a viaduct)

Edited June 10, 2021 by Sladefan

[hayfield]

21 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

John,

 

I do have a Wills viaduct kit, which I have considered adapting, but as you say is cost prohibitive at close to £100 for my purposes.

 

I would also have to augment their kit as it has brick liners and needs a brick parapet.  

 

I was thinking about using it as a template but the arches are two small, mine being 130mm wide where as theirs are 114mm. 

 

I also need it to be on a curve of varying radii (36" to 48").  This would mean chopping it into individual arches.  :-(

 

Thank you  for the suggestion and apologies for not making the wider requirements clear in my original question.

 

Steve

 

 

 

Steve it may well be worth keeping your eyes open, firstly does it need to be two sided, if one sided it may well reduce the cost by half, as for the size of the arches, it might be worth while  swapping accuracy for looks,  other than you who will know? Faller do a curved stone Viaduct, OK its H0 scale and 7" x 2" and you would need 12, but along with the Bridge piers kit and some plasticard you could make a master, which could be moulded, having said this a master could be made from anuthing 

 

As for cost, our old friend eBay does help out if required. I wanted a station building similar to Bodmin station (L shaped). The Ratio GWR station Building was a good start but at £33 ish I needed 3. I bought 3 kits on eBay, I don't think the dearest was up to £20 and the cheapest kit was under £10. I think I managed to keep it down to about £40 ish. It took me quite a while to get all 3 cheaply, but I spent a lot of time working out how and where to splice and had little waste left over. As I said its about right and at a distance would pass muster to all but the most knowledgeable, as it is I am taking a few liberties in altering the design to improve operational potential

 

 

Still very much work in progress, something like 6 splices in the photo above

 

 

I have moved on a bit from this photo, the roof has been painted, I may have over done with the chimney stacks, now planning the platform canopies. Some people do have the knack of totally transforming things (whish I had it)

[sjp23480]

33 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

Steve it may well be worth keeping your eyes open, firstly does it need to be two sided, if one sided it may well reduce the cost by half, as for the size of the arches, it might be worth while  swapping accuracy for looks,  other than you who will know? Faller do a curved stone Viaduct, OK its H0 scale and 7" x 2" and you would need 12, but along with the Bridge piers kit and some plasticard you could make a master, which could be moulded, having said this a master could be made from anuthing 

 

As for cost, our old friend eBay does help out if required. I wanted a station building similar to Bodmin station (L shaped). The Ratio GWR station Building was a good start but at £33 ish I needed 3. I bought 3 kits on eBay, I don't think the dearest was up to £20 and the cheapest kit was under £10. I think I managed to keep it down to about £40 ish. It took me quite a while to get all 3 cheaply, but I spent a lot of time working out how and where to splice and had little waste left over. As I said its about right and at a distance would pass muster to all but the most knowledgeable, as it is I am taking a few liberties in altering the design to improve operational potential

 

 

Still very much work in progress, something like 6 splices in the photo above

 

 

I have moved on a bit from this photo, the roof has been painted, I may have over done with the chimney stacks, now planning the platform canopies. Some people do have the knack of totally transforming things (whish I had it)

John,

 

You are absolutely right, but my perfectionist self is manifesting itself.  

 

I will reassess my options!

 

Steve