Ebay sale from UK to EU buyers from 1st of July - VAT!!!

[John M Upton]

Well, that is the end of me selling anything outside of the UK now.  This charming little message just arrived from Ebay:

 

From 1 July, and in line with new legislation, eBay will collect VAT on all goods which are sold through eBay and shipped to buyers in the European Union (EU) with a consignment value up to EUR150. eBay will collect VAT on all sales to private individuals, regardless of seller status. eBay will declare the VAT collected under our Import One Stop Shop (IOSS) number.
 

As EU customs need to identify if VAT has already been paid for EU imports, eBay’s IOSS number needs to be shared electronically with carriers. In cases where eBay has collected VAT and the goods are shipped from the UK, you are responsible for sharing eBay’s IOSS number with your carrier. Failure to share eBay’s IOSS will lead to buyers paying VAT again on delivery. Note that the Post Office systems do not accept a manually provided IOSS number.
 

If you continue sending parcels through the Post Office without pre-purchasing labels through Click & Drop or the other alternatives set out below, your buyers may have to pay VAT again on delivery.
 

To simplify the process, we will enrol you into the Global Shipping Programme (GSP) by 1 July. You will receive an email once we have successfully opted you in with further details and a link to opt-out should you wish to do so. GSP will ensure that the IOSS is correctly transmitted and that all customs charges/processes/international delivery is taken care of. All you have to do after a sale transaction is post your parcel to the UK Shipping Centre. Learn more here.
 

If you wish to continue to post packages to Europe yourself using the Royal Mail or an express carrier service, the alternative postage methods available to you, where you can electronically declare eBay IOSS to your carrier are:

•

eBay labels Packlink. Read more here.

•

Royal Mail Click & Drop account linked to eBay account. Labels can be dropped off at the Post Office once printed. Read more here.

•

Buy postage online with a carrier (Hermes/Parcel2Go/DPD/UPS) and electronically declare eBay’s IOSS number.

 

Lovely how it is trying to entice people into signing up for the GSP rip off!!!

[Quarryscapes]

Snowflakery at it's best.

 

You literally don't need to do a thing, except pass the IOSS number eBay give you on to whoever you use for shipping if you don't use eBay postage labels. Royal Mail expects to have the functionality sorted by then, I can't speak for other couriers. 

 

It has nothing to do with the Global Shipping program. 

[Crosland]

8 minutes ago, Quarryscapes said:

Snowflakery at it's best.

 

You literally don't need to do a thing, except pass the IOSS number eBay give you on to whoever you use for shipping if you don't use eBay postage labels. Royal Mail expects to have the functionality sorted by then, I can't speak for other couriers. 

Who are you calling a Snowflakes? eBay or John? If the latter then an apology is in order.

 

You need to actually read what eBay are saying to users

 

we will enrol you into the Global Shipping Programme (GSP) by 1 July

 

So, the thing you need to do to retain the status quo is opt out od the GSP ASAP after 1st July.

 

8 minutes ago, Quarryscapes said:

It has nothing to do with the Global Shipping program. 

 

It has everything to do with the GSP.

 

[andyman7]

Despite the outrageous GSP tariff it can still be worthwhile for some items - I've bought from the US via GSP where the total still makes sense. So as a default I'll leave it as an option on listings.

[John M Upton]

The thing I have been trying to work out is what happens when I post something by good old Royal Mail Airmail.  Ebay will have already added the 20% VAT to the purchase price at point of payment, if dispatched via the GSP which I refuse to touch with a twenty metre cattle prod there should be no VAT charge at the other end but by any other dispatch method which is cheaper (not by much mind!) and far more reliable then in theory the buyer could get hit for another wedge of VAT plus whatever fee the recipient nation postal service serves on top.

 

It hassle, it's faff, it's expensive, it just isn't worth it!

 

Oh, and if Ebay think I am letting them have details of my Royal Mail logon and account, they can get stuffed!  It is bad enough that they have forced everyone to hand their bank details over...

Edited June 11, 2021 by John M Upton

[Kylestrome]

7 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

It hassle, it's faff, it's expensive, it just isn't worth it!

 

Nobody is forcing you to sell to the EU.

[Blandford1969]

Just set your account to only accept bids from the UK. I changed mine after someone complained about the price of postage the GSP wanted to charge, which is not in our control, asked to cancel the sale and then left negative feedback. Lock your account down and you will have no bother.

[Monkersson]

56 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

The thing I have been trying to work out is what happens when I post something by good old Royal Mail Airmail.  Ebay will have already added the 20% VAT to the purchase price at point of payment, if dispatched via the GSP which I refuse to touch with a twenty metre cattle prod there should be no VAT charge at the other end but by any other dispatch method which is cheaper (not by much mind!) and far more reliable then in theory the buyer could get hit for another wedge of VAT plus whatever fee the recipient nation postal service serves on top.

 

It hassle, it's faff, it's expensive, it just isn't worth it!

 

Oh, and if Ebay think I am letting them have details of my Royal Mail logon and account, they can get stuffed!  It is bad enough that they have forced everyone to hand their bank details over...

They haven't forced anyone to do anything.  Its the individuals choice to use eBay, and if you want to use it, then you have to abide by their terms and conditions

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

Just set your account to only accept bids from the UK. I changed mine after someone complained about the price of postage the GSP wanted to charge, which is not in our control, asked to cancel the sale and then left negative feedback. Lock your account down and you will have no bother.

 

2 hours ago, Monkersson said:

They haven't forced anyone to do anything.  Its the individuals choice to use eBay, and if you want to use it, then you have to abide by their terms and conditions

 

Well, that's me stuffed, although eBay was getting a tad expensive without the latest shenanigans.

 

Mike.

[andyman7]

3 hours ago, John M Upton said:

The thing I have been trying to work out is what happens when I post something by good old Royal Mail Airmail.  Ebay will have already added the 20% VAT to the purchase price at point of payment, if dispatched via the GSP which I refuse to touch with a twenty metre cattle prod there should be no VAT charge at the other end but by any other dispatch method which is cheaper (not by much mind!) and far more reliable then in theory the buyer could get hit for another wedge of VAT plus whatever fee the recipient nation postal service serves on top.

 

It hassle, it's faff, it's expensive, it just isn't worth it!

 

Oh, and if Ebay think I am letting them have details of my Royal Mail logon and account, they can get stuffed!  It is bad enough that they have forced everyone to hand their bank details over...

You don't have to link your Royal Mail account to ebay, just remember to input the VAT collected code when you go direct to the Royal Mail site to purchase and print your postage label.

[phil-b259]

10 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

You don't have to link your Royal Mail account to ebay, just remember to input the VAT collected code when you go direct to the Royal Mail site to purchase and print your postage label.

 

A code which Royal Mail will presumably check with e-bay BEFORE letting you have your label - otherwise whats the point of Royal Mail asking for it in the fist place.

[John M Upton]

More faff in other words.  No, I am going to cut and run, UK only from now on and even then I am thinking of giving up selling on Ebay altogether if any more of these directives come along.

 

Whilst searching through Ebay's appalling sprawling badly designed accounts settings and preferences, I discovered that yet again I had been signed up to the GSP so that was very quickly knocked on the head once more!

Edited June 11, 2021 by John M Upton

[andyman7]

35 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

A code which Royal Mail will presumably check with e-bay BEFORE letting you have your label - otherwise whats the point of Royal Mail asking for it in the fist place.

I don't think that's how it works - the code is just electronically forwarded by the carrier to the EU recipient country. 

[Monkersson]

30 minutes ago, John M Upton said:

More faff in other words.  No, I am going to cut and run, UK only from now on and even then I am thinking of giving up selling on Ebay altogether if any more of these directives come along.

 

Whilst searching through Ebay's appalling sprawling badly designed accounts settings and preferences, I discovered that yet again I had been signed up to the GSP so that was very quickly knocked on the head once more!

It is literally 3 clicks from the My eBay page to account settings

 

Instead of constantly moaning about eBay, why don't you set up your own webpage and sell your signs directly from there?

[phil-b259]

32 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

I don't think that's how it works - the code is just electronically forwarded by the carrier to the EU recipient country. 

 

If it doesn't work like that then whats to stop you whacking down any old number (that looks the part) on it!

 

The whole point of such a code is to PROVE that VAT has been paid - if it doesn't work when the parcel gets processed then I would expect it to either not be sent on by Royal Mail or if it is be over stamped with 'receiver MUST pay VAT' code.

 

E-bay might well be trying to steer sellers into using their services but E-bay are not responsible for the new EU VAT system (or Brexit) which has created all this mess in the first place!

[Crosland]

9 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

If it doesn't work like that then whats to stop you whacking down any old number (that looks the part) on it!

 

The whole point of such a code is to PROVE that VAT has been paid - if it doesn't work when the parcel gets processed then I would expect it to either not be sent on by Royal Mail or if it is be over stamped with 'receiver MUST pay VAT' code.

 

Remember that VAT is payable in the destination country. It's not UK VAT that is being collected by eBay and Royal Mail probably don't care. The code is for the new EU IOSS system. It is up to customs in the recipient country to use the code to validate the status of the shipment.

 

What's not clear to me is what happens if import duty is payable on an item. Model Railways do not attract import duty but eBay obviously sells much more.

 

If you opt out of the GSP and simply take the parcel to your local PO then you will need to fill in, and attach, a CN22, just as you always did for exports outside the EU before Brexit. The issue eBay are tying to help with is that the CN22 has no where to put an IOSS number. It's designed for declaring the goods for assessment when they reach the destination country. So eBay charge the VAT (and pass it on to the EU) and then the recipient may have to pay VAT again if the parcel is caught in the net.

 

This is all down to new EU regulations that were coming anyway, regardless of Brexit.

 

Believe it or not, eBay are actually trying to be helpful by pre-clearing your parcels to the EU. Tying it to the much-loathed GSP, by default, seems like an own goal to me.

 

[andyman7]

13 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

 

If it doesn't work like that then whats to stop you whacking down any old number (that looks the part) on it!

 

The whole point of such a code is to PROVE that VAT has been paid - if it doesn't work when the parcel gets processed then I would expect it to either not be sent on by Royal Mail or if it is be over stamped with 'receiver MUST pay VAT' code.

 

E-bay might well be trying to steer sellers into using their services but E-bay are not responsible for the new EU VAT system (or Brexit) which has created all this mess in the first place!

You're not proving it to ebay, you are proving it to the destination country. They will cross check that the number matches the ebay outpayment to them, all done automatically.
 

I know it is convenient to think of ebay as a big nasty evil empire, but as you say in this case it is Brexit and the various squabbling Governments that have created this situation. If you choose to sell through ebay, they provide straightforward solutions to meet the various obligations. It's frustrating these exists after years of frictionless trade but hardly ebay's fault. 

[Guest WM183]

With every declaration of "UK only from now on!!!" you make an already bad situation worse for those of us in the EU who never got a vote on Brexit - the root cause of all this - and who depend on Ebay for a large amount of our modelling supplies. We've lost a number of online retailers, and now this. Sigh.

Time to switch to German models I guess. If people in the UK don't want my custom, I suppose I'll not try and give it to them.

[Enterprisingwestern]

6 hours ago, WM183 said:

With every declaration of "UK only from now on!!!" you make an already bad situation worse for those of us in the EU who never got a vote on Brexit - the root cause of all this - and who depend on Ebay for a large amount of our modelling supplies. We've lost a number of online retailers, and now this. Sigh.

Time to switch to German models I guess. If people in the UK don't want my custom, I suppose I'll not try and give it to them.

 

You and me both. I feel your pain.

 

Mike.

[GWR-fan]

Long ago when GSP became a favourite shipping method of many UK eBay sellers,   I restricted my purchases to just Rails eBay site.  Then eBay incorporated our local GST of 10% on all purchases from outside of Australia,  so now my only overseas purchases (China only) are either through Alliexpress and the occasional eBay China purchase.   Our GST is a "goods and services tax" so we also pay the tax on shipping and insurance as well.  When Rails and Hattons start imposing the 10% GST on web sales then my overseas purchases will almost cease.

[John M Upton]

This is the heart of the problem, in the last twelve to eighteen months there has been a perfect storm of events and legislation which means that import duties, VAT (or local equivalent) and especially huge increases in overseas postage costs.  The result is that purchases from anywhere outside a buyer's own country has become prohibitively expensive and in many cases unjustifiable.

 

Case in point, five years ago I could purchase items from the US and they would be sent over for the cost of an Airmail stamp and were not subject to duty, VAT and of course the Royal Mail's infamous administration fee.

 

A few months ago I sought some parts from the US again, the actual item was about $4, the postage was $25 plus VAT and import duty to be added on top when it got here!

 

This whole sorry affair is effectively killing international trade for hobbists, not just railway modellers but across many different hobbies.

 

And for sellers, the additional faff, the costs, the red tape, the constantly moving legislative goal posts and the ire of their potential customers when they go nuclear when they find out how much on top they are being charged, all this for a minority of their customers means that for many, overseas sales are no longer worth the hassle and additional expense.

 

It's a mess...

[Michael Hodgson]

12 hours ago, John M Upton said:

This is the heart of the problem, in the last twelve to eighteen months there has been a perfect storm of events and legislation which means that import duties, VAT (or local equivalent) and especially huge increases in overseas postage costs.  The result is that purchases from anywhere outside a buyer's own country has become prohibitively expensive and in many cases unjustifiable.

 

 

It's a mess...

The problem is that there have been so many changes (and not just in the financials aspects) by the authorities and ebay and others that it's all got far too confusing for many people, with the result that whatever they are supposed to be doing, some people are just getting it wrong.  Just when you think you understand the system and the implications of changes, the goalposts are moved again.  It may be OK for multinationals who can afford to throw resource into keeping on top of it all, but you really can't blame small traders and private individuals for saying it's not worth my while.

[Bernard Lamb]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The problem is that there have been so many changes (and not just in the financials aspects) by the authorities and ebay and others that it's all got far too confusing for many people, with the result that whatever they are supposed to be doing, some people are just getting it wrong.  Just when you think you understand the system and the implications of changes, the goalposts are moved again.  It may be OK for multinationals who can afford to throw resource into keeping on top of it all, but you really can't blame small traders and private individuals for saying it's not worth my while.

But wasn't that the idea all along?

Bernard

[topnoddy]

Just on the new eBay managed payments set up , i've been signed up without me doing anything . They now have around £260 of my money that they will not release to me without me giving them my bank account details ,i decided that i wasn't happy with doing that as it gave them the right to take money from the account whenever they liked and i don't trust them . I've now set up a new bank account just to get my money which after i've transferred it to my normal acount i'll be closing . 

 

Some items i've viewed that are from Europe have been quoting that VAT is chargable on them when being imported  for a few months now