WW2 jeeps in civilian use and other vehicles on British roads 1950's

[friscopete]

In the 50's a pukkah  US army jeep was in use as its driver was courting the stunning blonde who live in our street.it had all the stars and seriels .Never saw the guy in uniform. but he only came down weekends so probably a serving Yank.Anyone modelling Hainault station in about 1971 could accurately include an SS plated Kubelwagen,on trade plates , as I drove it round for a few hours  as you do .

[Royal42]

12 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Nearest is an Austin Atlantic, then what I think is a Wolsely, Austin 8 or 10, Riley Pathfinder?, Hillman Minx, Jag Mk. VII. Metropolitan, FordsonE83W van, unidentifiable, Ford Zephyr Mk. II, another Fordson E83W.

Thanks Phil, that is great.  I would like to place as many vehicles that match those in view on my diorama, when I get to the roadway stage of building.  Your identification has helped a great deal.

 

Mike

[javlinfaw7]

I think the unidentified car is a Singer Gazelle .https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Singer_Gazelle_3c_Reg_Jun_62_1592_cc.JPG

[PhilJ W]

9 minutes ago, javlinfaw7 said:

I think the unidentified car is a Singer Gazelle .https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Singer_Gazelle_3c_Reg_Jun_62_1592_cc.JPG

Its not a Singer Gazelle. Its taller than most of the other cars and has separate wings. Under blow up the pic gets a bit fuzzy but it could be a Triumph Renown with the 'razor' wings.

[Royal42]

I think I can get a Jaguar Mk. VII in 1:148 scale from Osbornes so, again, thank you for the identifications.

 

How about these? 

This image was taken opposite the junction of the first photograph and is looking east into Queens Drive.

 

This is a view from the other end of the drive, looking west.

 

Mike

Edited June 13, 2021 by Royal42

[BernardTPM]

5 hours ago, Royal42 said:

Incidently, I would be grateful if anyone could tell me the make and version of those vehicles in view please.

Mike

 

3 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

Nearest is an Austin Atlantic, then what I think is a Wolsely, Austin 8 or 10, Riley Pathfinder?, Hillman Minx, Jag Mk. VII. Metropolitan, FordsonE83W van, unidentifiable, Ford Zephyr Mk. II, another Fordson E83W.

 

3 hours ago, Royal42 said:

Thanks Phil, that is great.  I would like to place as many vehicles that match those in view on my diorama, when I get to the roadway stage of building.  Your identification has helped a great deal.

The date can't be right as the Mk.2 Zephyr didn't come out until February 1956 and the 'Audax' Minx in May 1956.

Edited June 13, 2021 by BernardTPM

[Royal42]

I don't have any worry about that date as my diorama is of a section of New Street Station before it was rebuilt.  As such, anything before 1963 qualifies,  although I would probably focus on 1958 as that was the time I used to go train spotting there.  These images are the only ones that I can find that show the area before much of it was demolished, so beggers cannot be choosers.

 

cheers,
Mike

 

Edit:  the subject header has be amended to include any vehicles to be found on British roads mid to late 1950's

Edited June 13, 2021 by Royal42

[Fat Controller]

Post-War, they were built under licence by Hotchkiss in France, with 'new' vehicles being produced until 1978, using (initially) US surplus parts. Though most went to the French armed forces, quite a few went to the various fire brigades around the country, especially those in the South and South East.

[BernardTPM]

Given it looks a similar width to the big Jaguar I wonder if that unidentified car might be a 1953 Studebaker Starlight coupe. That had a wrap round rear screen and, like the 1956 Minx, was a Loewy design.

[BernardTPM]

7 minutes ago, Royal42 said:

I don't have any worry about that date as my diorama is of a section of New Street Station before it was rebuilt.

Maybe not, but it might mislead others into temporal errors. Not everyone has a Police box to explain them away...

[Adam88]

Here's a bit of a digression.  A late friend of mine wrote of his experiences during the war including serving with REME in India and Burma.  These extracts cover the use of Jeeps as ambulances and maintenance, converting them to run on rails and using them with multiple unbraked trailers.  Fascinating insights for which I am very grateful.

 

"We were put to work as soon as we arrived first of all designing and then modifying some  jeeps  for  use  as  ambulances.  They  were  made  to  carry  two  stretcher  cases  and  four walking  wounded.  Jeeps  were  the  only  vehicles  which  could  use  the  tracks  through  the forests  and  over  the  hilly  terrain.  Many  of  the  wounded  had  to  be  carried  pick-a-back  as vehicles  could  not  get  too  them.  Much  of  the  work  done  by  the  jeeps  was  in  4  wheel  drive and  in  the  low  gear  box,  this  meant  that  the  engines  soon  required  replacing  or  lots  of maintenance.  To  get  the  job  done  as  quickly  as  possible  we  ran  two  12  hour  shifts  with  no days  off.  Whilst  we  were  working  in  Dimapur  the  fighting  troops  of  the  division  were  in combat in the area of Kohima about 25 miles further up the road. I can’t remember whether if I ever felt in danger, I suppose we were so busy and tired that we hadn’t time to worry. It was whilst we were working a night shift that there was a radio broadcast by the Commander of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, to which we now belonged having been split from RAOC some time before, exhorting members of REME to work hard etc. The broadcast was transmitted at a time in the middle of the night when our spirits are  at their lowest ebb, the  suggestions  made  by  some  of  the  men  were  unprintable  suggesting  that  instead  of  him talking on the wireless he should get his coat off and give us a hand."

...

"The  railways  had  been  badly  damaged  by  the  RAF  whilst  in  the  occupation  of  the Japanese, particularly the engines. There were plenty of wagons which were able to move but nothing  to  move  them.  We  were  given  some  apparatus,  which  had  been  developed  by  the Americans, to fix to the underside of a jeep which would enable the jeep to run on the rails. I helped  to  fix  these  circular  discs  to  the  vehicle  and  then  went  to  a  length  of  railway  track where we tried the thing out. It was very successful, the tyres gave enough grip and the plates kept the tyres on the rails.

We reported the successful test to the CO and next day we told to demonstrate the vehicle. As usual  there  were  a  large  number  of  top  brass  came  to  see  the  demo.  And  they  all  seemed satisfied  that  the  modified  jeep  could  be  used  to  move  equipment,  until  someone  suggested that we pulled some trucks. A small train of about five trucks was assembled and connected to  the  jeep  which  had  no  difficulty  in  pulling  the trucks.  The  trouble  began  when  the  driver tried  to  stop.  The  trucks  were  far  too  heavy  for  jeep  and  pushed  the  jeep  along  tearing  the plates from under the vehicle and pushing it off the track. The problem was overcome, after more  trials,  by  having  another  jeep  at  the  back  of the  train  to  act  as  a  brake  truck.  We modified a number of jeeps but I can’t remember ever seeing a jeep train in use after they left our shops."

...

"Our  transport  was  mainly  Jeep  based  with  trailers  for  our  equipment  and  whilst  it  may have been suitable for the workshop side of our lives it was a disaster for us and our personal equipment. The answer so far as the powers that be was concerned was to issue us with more trailers. When the time came for us to leave Kanchrapara and move into Calcutta, to prepare the Brigade transport for the invasion of Burma from the sea, the convoy was organised and it was found that the last three Jeeps were trying to pull four trailers each. The Jeep was strong enough to pull the trailers but when the brakes were applied the trailers tried to whiplash and the last trailer tried to overtake the towing vehicle. The drivers of these vehicles were rather unhappy  at  this  state  of  affairs  and  made  their  complaints  known  in  no  uncertain  terms.  By the time things were sorted out and remedied it was too late to move that day and so the move into Calcutta was held over until the following day. That meant the trailers being unpacked to get what was needed for the night’s stay and then repacked the following morning. I think the experiment was a failure and we  gradually  got rid of most of the Jeeps by  exchanging them for more suitable trucks."

[KeithHC]

One was used on a farm in Anglesey by two brothers. When one said to the other what will you do when you need to get another one . He said I hope I can get one but then we could make one ah a Rover for the Land and a legend was born out of a willys……..

 

Keith

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, Adam88 said:

"The  railways  had  been  badly  damaged  by  the  RAF  whilst  in  the  occupation  of  the Japanese, particularly the engines. There were plenty of wagons which were able to move but nothing  to  move  them.  We  were  given  some  apparatus,  which  had  been  developed  by  the Americans, to fix to the underside of a jeep which would enable the jeep to run on the rails. I helped  to  fix  these  circular  discs  to  the  vehicle  and  then  went  to  a  length  of  railway  track where we tried the thing out. It was very successful, the tyres gave enough grip and the plates kept the tyres on the rails.

We reported the successful test to the CO and next day we told to demonstrate the vehicle. As usual  there  were  a  large  number  of  top  brass  came  to  see  the  demo.  And  they  all  seemed satisfied  that  the  modified  jeep  could  be  used  to  move  equipment,  until  someone  suggested that we pulled some trucks. A small train of about five trucks was assembled and connected to  the  jeep  which  had  no  difficulty  in  pulling  the trucks.  The  trouble  began  when  the  driver tried  to  stop.  The  trucks  were  far  too  heavy  for  jeep  and  pushed  the  jeep  along  tearing  the plates from under the vehicle and pushing it off the track. The problem was overcome, after more  trials,  by  having  another  jeep  at  the  back  of the  train  to  act  as  a  brake  truck.  We modified a number of jeeps but I can’t remember ever seeing a jeep train in use after they left our shops."

 

At the end of WW2, my (recently deceased) father was a Captain in the RE, in command of a detachment of Gurkhas. Their task was to replace railway bridges in Burma that had been destroyed by the retreating Japanese.

 

Dad was provided with a rail-adapted Jeep for use when inspecting the various construction sites.

 

He did recall reports being received of tanks advancing on his command post - which it transpired were actually an unanticipated delivery of bulldozers!!

 

John Isherwood.

 

PS.,

 

He also recalled seeing the first of the Burmese Beyer-Garratt locomotives being moved up-river on barges as he was going down-river for demob.

Edited June 13, 2021 by cctransuk

[javlinfaw7]

If you are looking for the mid fifties , maybe this picture from the birmingham mail of  old square in 1955 would give a better idea and most vehicles are clearer

 

 

[PhilJ W]

2 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

 

 

The date can't be right as the Mk.2 Zephyr didn't come out until February 1956 and the 'Audax' Minx in May 1956.

2 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Given it looks a similar width to the big Jaguar I wonder if that unidentified car might be a 1953 Studebaker Starlight coupe. That had a wrap round rear screen and, like the 1956 Minx, was a Loewy design.

 

Looking at it again it could be an F type Vauxhall Victor not a Zephyr. IIRC the F type Victor was introduced in 1955. 

I agree it could be a Studebaker.

[PhilJ W]

3 minutes ago, javlinfaw7 said:

If you are looking for the mid fifties , maybe this picture from the birmingham mail of  old square in 1955 would give a better idea and most vehicles are clearer

 

 

Some interesting vehicles there. Including at least two pre-war cars that were quite common until about 1960 when the MoT test decimated their ranks.

[BernardTPM]

14 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

 

Looking at it again it could be an F type Vauxhall Victor not a Zephyr. IIRC the F type Victor was introduced in 1955.

February 1957.

[KeithHC]

24 minutes ago, javlinfaw7 said:

If you are looking for the mid fifties , maybe this picture from the birmingham mail of  old square in 1955 would give a better idea and most vehicles are clearer

 

 

Also the number of phone boxes. Is that a BR artic on the left as well possibly a Karrier Bantam.

 

Keith

Edited June 13, 2021 by KeithHC
Addition

[BernardTPM]

4 minutes ago, KeithHC said:

Is that a BR artic on the left as well.

That's the small Commer or Karrier. Surprisingly they were built well into the 1970s.

[johnofwessex]

The Jeep in the IWM had been issued to a lady working for the Red Cross in Italy in 1944.

 

She finally handed it back in the 80's I seem to remember, possibly the longest TWOC in history 

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, BernardTPM said:

That's the small Commer or Karrier. Surprisingly they were built well into the 1970s.

It would be a Karrier fitted with a Scammel mechanical horse fifth wheel. By the looks of it would be brand new.

[brianusa]

Dinky Toys had a civilian Jeep in its range, usually in bright colours.  The spare was moved to the rear side and had a one piece windscreen.

  Brian.

[PhilJ W]

That would be the post war version.

[Merfyn Jones]

5 hours ago, KeithHC said:

Also the number of phone boxes. Is that a BR artic on the left as well possibly a Karrier Bantam.

 

Keith

Yes the Karrier Bantam,  British Railways had a huge number still buying them well into the 60s.

[KeithHC]

11 hours ago, brianusa said:

Dinky Toys had a civilian Jeep in its range, usually in bright colours.  The spare was moved to the rear side and had a one piece windscreen.

  Brian.

That would have been a later version I think they where CJ3.

 

Keith