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Single line token working questions.


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Hi all, a few questions for those knowledgeable in such things if I may.

 

I have a plan in my head for a dmu operated WR branch line using what I think is the "token block" system, with no signals. What I'm not sure of is how adding a second platform at the terminus affect things.

 

I'd like to have a single line branch coming on scene, which then divides into two platform tracks at a small terminus using just one point (think Bourne end but without the Marlow branch). I'd like the point to be worked from a ground frame using the token to release it, no signals at all.

 

Would this be realistic? 

Would I need trap points on the platform lines?

Any examples of such a situation on the network? 

 

Cheers in advance.

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If you are working to Electric Token Block regulations, there must be an instrument into which the token is inserted - this would be done by a signalman in his box, and yes there would be signals.

 

To do what you propose would be described as No SIgnalman Key Token (NSKT) or No SIgnalman Remote.  Under this, there is still an instrument but it is worked by the train crew.  The Esk Valley line to Whitby is worked this way, and there is now a second platform at Whitby for the NYMR trains.  The signalman at Nunthorpe supervises movements on that route, with passing places at Battersby and Glaisdale, plus an intermediate instrument at Grosmont which enables the NYMR trains to obtain a token for Whitby.

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Thanks for that, I'll have a look at the Whitby line.  I was thinking of having a line side cabinet next to the groundframe which would contain the token machine. 

 

If I've got the procedure correct the signalman releases the token machine remotely, the train crew then inserts the token into the ground frame to set the route, removes the token and boards the train, train then departs with token?

 

One question that has crossed my mind, what protection would there be on the pointwork to ensure that an approaching train didn't take the wrong line and collide with a waiting train? Or would the token machine not release for an incoming train unless the route is set into a clear platform?

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 If you don't want to have any signals, then the line will be "one train working" which is self explanatory. Only one train is allowed on the branch at once. Signals are provided to keep trains apart, so if there is only one train then no signals are needed. There might well be points at the terminus and these might well be worked from a groundframe that is released by the token.

 

If you want more than one train in your station at once, then some form of signalling is required so that the drivers know which one can proceed. You don't say what period you are modelling, nowadays there are many variations on these themes including electronic signalling.

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Thanks for the replies. 

 

The period for this is 1990 to 2005, I've just been reading about the system in use on the Whitby line Here.

 

One thing mentioned in that link is that at a station forming a passing loop there are token machines on each platform, admittedly this is at a point where two block sections meet, but could I have a token machine for each platform of a terminus? 

 

Though I suppose I'm still left with the issue of the points not set for the correct road...

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9 hours ago, simon b said:

Thanks for the replies. 

 

The period for this is 1990 to 2005, I've just been reading about the system in use on the Whitby line Here.

 

One thing mentioned in that link is that at a station forming a passing loop there are token machines on each platform, admittedly this is at a point where two block sections meet, but could I have a token machine for each platform of a terminus? 

 

Though I suppose I'm still left with the issue of the points not set for the correct road...

 

The whitby branch is no signalman token, the signalman doesn't release the token he gives the driver permission to remove a token . This is done by pressing the plunger on the token machine observing the commutator goes over and turning the key token to release , he also gives you permission to pass the stop board 

At Glaisdale the points for the loop are hydro kinetic in lay man's terms hydraulic spring points .

When the points are correctly set a single yellow light is displayed in the points indicator.  If this is not shown you must stop and have the points clamped 

At Battersby the signals are still classed as points indicators and the actual points are controlled by track circuits for entering the station and the token machines for leaving 

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The situation at Bourne End (my local station) is that the two sets of points are connected so that if the route is set to Marlow then any train arriving from Maidenhead will be routed into the Up platform.  Maidenhead to Bourne End is under No Signaller Token working with the train crew obtaining the token at either end under the supervision of the TVSC Slough signaller.  Bourne End to Marlow is protected by a train staff.  Both token and train staff have to be inserted into their appropriate instruments at Bourne End before the Ground Switch Panel (GSP) can be operated. 

 

After the closure of the Bourne End to High Wycombe section and Bourne End SB in 1970 and 1971 respectively, the points at Bourne End were operated by a ground frame with no signals.  Early in 2008, the points were motorised and the GSP replaced the GF.  "Signals" were provided from that time on the approach from Maidenhead and for departure from the Down platform but these are both officially Points Indicators showing the driver which route is set and that he may proceed.  Passing them on red is still a SPAD though!

 

Here are some pictures which might be of use/interest.

 

1601719631_D-BR-284_BourneEnd29-12-07.jpg.28958d249dcde66703746b61f6d1e457.jpg

The old ground frame just before replacement.  The single black lever worked the points and the two blue ones the FPLs on each.

 

1674945632_D-BR-288_BourneEnd29-12-07.jpg.2e9eb68393bdd62178c8c52c4b2d1a6f.jpg

The hut housed the token instrument.   The Marlow train staff was inserted into the GF.

 

1464908929_D-BR-494_BourneEnd-Marlowstaff18-3-09.jpg.d02a2798e3e95b097c111210c17d8bba.jpg

The Bourne End to Marlow train staff.  It's seen many years of hard service and wear having been in use since Marlow SB closed in 1953.

 

1366516437_D-BR-490_BourneEnd18-3-09.jpg.9da6d8fb2a6f2985bd83c5472e3edfbe.jpg

The current GSP at Bourne End plus the instrument into which the token must be inserted before the panel can be operated.

 

49970803_D-BR-492_BourneEnd18-3-09.jpg.315b417c441b8b24ab1aade8dbd5c025.jpg

Likewise, the Marlow train staff has to be in this Annetts Key Release to operate the GSP.

 

913930042_D-BR-495_BourneEndEKTinstrument18-3-09.jpg.856b49201cce80ff1653c3f73efa0e07.jpg

In addition to the instrument unlocking the panel, there is a token instrument in the Bourne End GSP hut into which the token has to be inserted and then released with the cooperation of the TVSC Slough signaller on every trip.  There are three such machines, this one plus a second at Bourne End near the buffer stops on the Up platform and one on the country end of platforms 4/5 at Maidenhead.  Since this photo was taken all three have been replaced with brand-new specially made instruments (including two spares) to overcome reliability problems - the first token instruments made for many years!

 

971525860_D-BR-493_BE1BourneEnd18-3-09.jpg.25f9421cd848545a19b87f5e031ed7e8.jpg

The Points Indicator on the Down Platform.  When the road is set towards Maidenhead it shows M (Main) or B (Branch) when set towards Marlow.  In both cases only a Yellow can be displayed as a proceed aspect.  Note also the Stop board.  There is another Stop board on the Up platform that reads: "Obtain token before proceeding".  No mention of the staff is required as obviously trains cannot access the Marlow branch from the Up platform - at least, not at present!

 

1723961782_D-BR-318_BourneEnd13-02-08.jpg.37ab0637ef3a692c32d1f3649ddefd70.jpg

The other "Points Indicator" greets trains arriving from Maidenhead.  This shows either D or U depending on which platform, Down or Up the train is routed into.  Most of the day when there is just the Maidenhead-Marlow train in operation, they run into the Down platform but in the morning and evening weekday peaks, two trains operate, one between Maidenhead and Bourne End using the Up platform and the other shuttling to and from Marlow from the Down platform.  Again this displays only a red or yellow aspect.

 

There is no Points Indicator on the approach from Marlow but on both lines fixed distants are provided.

 

775552557_D-BR-499_BourneEnd18-3-09.jpg.cd0d9f6872d3b05e6bf16b997ee422b9.jpg

Also provided on the Down platform is a Train Ready To Start button.  Pressing this causes the BE1 indicator to change from red to the appropriate proceed indication -  assuming everything has worked as it should.

 

Further details of the operation  can be found on page 905 of the Western Sectional Appendix which you can download through the Network Rail website at:

https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/sectional-appendix/Sectional Appendix full PDFs/Western Sectional Appendix June 2021.pdf

 

Now, can anyone explain the arrangements at Whitby in similar detail?

 

 

 

D-BR-491_Bourne End 18-3-09.jpg

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You may find this instructive.  There are a number of detailed drawings which you can study if you pause the clip.

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/videoPages/Whitby.php

 

However Whitby is unusual in a number of regards

  • The platform at Whitby is permissive - you can shut down a DMU at the stop blocks, insert the token and then a second train can be allowed to enter from Glaisdale
  • there are ground frames released by the token which enable you to route a NYMR train to/from Platform 2
  • there is provision for running round
  • The NYMR joins the route at Grosmont which is in the middle of the Glaisdale-Whitby Section.  So intermediate instruments are required, which enables a token to be issued/returned there, provided of course there is not already a token out for whole section.  Prior to provision of the intermediate instrument, in order to run a train to Whitby the NYMR had to send somebody by road to Glaisdale to collect the token and drive back and hand it to the driver.  Obviously very inconvenient, but also a timetabling limitation because it added road journey to the time the section was not available for the regular service trains
  • it's the only NSTR line outside of Western Region territory 
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33 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Not relevant to the OP's situation, but the arrangements at Battersby are also unusual in that trains reverse there.

 

The signalbox supervising the route is at Nunthorpe 

https://railwayworld.net/2020/09/02/last-semaphores-on-the-esk-valley-line/

 

What that article doesn't mention is that Nunthorpe has very rare mechanical barriers 

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2 hours ago, Mark Saunders said:

Or it is now the oldest working signal box  in the area since Norton East closed!

 

Is it older than Middlesbrough and Whitehouse 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

You may find this instructive.  There are a number of detailed drawings which you can study if you pause the clip.

 

https://www.s-r-s.org.uk/videoPages/Whitby.php

 

However Whitby is unusual in a number of regards

  • The platform at Whitby is permissive - you can shut down a DMU at the stop blocks, insert the token and then a second train can be allowed to enter from Glaisdale
  • there are ground frames released by the token which enable you to route a NYMR train to/from Platform 2
  • there is provision for running round
  • The NYMR joins the route at Grosmont which is in the middle of the Glaisdale-Whitby Section.  So intermediate instruments are required, which enables a token to be issued/returned there, provided of course there is not already a token out for whole section.  Prior to provision of the intermediate instrument, in order to run a train to Whitby the NYMR had to send somebody by road to Glaisdale to collect the token and drive back and hand it to the driver.  Obviously very inconvenient, but also a timetabling limitation because it added road journey to the time the section was not available for the regular service trains
  • it's the only NSTR line outside of Western Region territory 

Thanks for the video link, interesting to see how it's all laid out.

 

The permissive platform must be very unusual, I didn't realize that would be possible with a token system.

 

One question I do have is that there doesn't appear any way to "lock in" a train in platform 1, whilst another arrives/departs platform 2. Or is that not a requirement on this system? 

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Posted (edited)

In the case of Bourne end I take it it's not possible to bring the first train from Maidenhead into the up platform, reverse the points and return the token to the machine, then allow another train from Maidenhead into the down platform?

 

Is that why the first train of the day is always "locked in" to the Marlow branch, as that's the only way of getting a second train into Bourne end? 

 

Sorry if I seem to be asking the same sort of questions, I just want to make sure I understand how it all works.

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Whilst it would be possible in theory, the service starts and finishes each weekday with a single unit on the branch so therefore the road is left set to the Down platform.  Incidentally, when so set, points 2a/b are in their reversed position.

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50 minutes ago, simon b said:

Thanks for the video link, interesting to see how it's all laid out.

 

The permissive platform must be very unusual, I didn't realize that would be possible with a token system.

 

One question I do have is that there doesn't appear any way to "lock in" a train in platform 1, whilst another arrives/departs platform 2. Or is that not a requirement on this system? 

 

Important to realise it's just the platforms that are permissive, and the platform itself is beyond the end of the section - you're not allowed to have two on the single line (ie beyond the STOP and obtain token notice).  The notice with points indicator is effectively a signal, passing it without permission from the Nunthorpe signalman would be a Spad - it's even got TPWS

 

So if there's a service train (or two) in Platform 1, the token will have been put back, and Grosmont can get a token for the Steam.  On arrival at Whitby he will stop at the End of Section notice, as the Points Indicator will still be showing Platform 1.  The token will be used to operate the GF to set the road into Platform 2 and the points indicator will now show the correct platform so he can continue into the platform.  Even if Platform 1 were empty, it's no use to him as he needs Platform 2 to run round.  Once he's in Platform 2 the crossover will be put back and the token given up, enabling the service to/from Platform 1 to resume.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

 

Important to realise it's just the platforms that are permissive, and the platform itself is beyond the end of the section - you're not allowed to have two on the single line (ie beyond the STOP and obtain token notice).  The notice with points indicator is effectively a signal, passing it without permission from the Nunthorpe signalman would be a Spad - it's even got TPWS

 

 

Aha! That makes things a lot clearer, thank you.

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Posted (edited)

So coming back to my idea of two platforms from a single line, could it be done as follows:

 

Single line comes onto layout under the token system, first thing encountered is a warning board marking the end of the token section which reads: "End of token section. Permissive working. Check points and proceed as far as platform is clear."

 

Next thing would be a points indicator, followed by the points themselves. If needed the points are changed via a ground frame which is released using the token.

 

Train then enters platform, train crew returns token to machine. Section clear for next train.

 

For a train to leave the station there is a stop board on the end of each platform which reads: "Start of token section. Obtain token and permission to proceed."

 

Just after the platform ends would be a points indicator along with a sign "Check points before proceeding".

 

If needed points are changed via the ground frame using the token.

 

Train then leaves the platform and enters the token section.

 

Does that sound workable or have I got it wrong?

 

I quite fancy building something like Sudbury but with both platforms in use.

Sudbury 10-30 August 1988.jpg

Sudbury 14-67 Nov 1988.jpg

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One thing to watch out for is there will be a very obvious difference in how the token machines look. If you allow them to be visible on your model you can get away with a model instrument as sold on the net. If you model a passing loop the issuing and receiving instruments will have gates for a balancing magazine on the right hand side of the instrument. One of the pair will have the magazine attached or there will be a member of staff carrying the magazine between instruments.

 

I can post a picture or three if required. 

 

 

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