SteveyDee68 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) This may be, perhaps, a pointless question, but definitely one for the doyens of ‘cut-&-shut’ such as @Gibbo675 to advise upon… The new Bachmann 4-BEP is a beautiful model, having now poured over every magazine review and online photo I can find of it. I feel like I have gone full-Golem as I look at it and start rocking back and forth, holding my knees, and whispering, “Oooh, look at its, so pretty, so shiny, I wants it, I wants it, my preciousssss” … Perhaps that should be “my priceyyyyy” because, let’s face it, I’m only a pony off an O gauge bogie diesel! “What’s your point? Get on with it!” I hear you cry … Every review points out that other than some very minor tweaks that the only difference between the 4-BEP and the previously released 4-CEP is the buffet car, and as you can get hold of 4-CEP models at less than half the price of the new 4-BEP, I wondered has anybody (a) ever modified the relevant 2nd trailer into the buffet coach (b) are there, by any chance, any kits or etched parts produced to do so and (c) if the answer to (a) is “no” is there anybody with far better modelling skills than I willing to “blaze a path” and show how it could be done? I simply think that, for me and maybe others, a 4-BEP from a £130 4-CEP is a more financially realistic option than justifying half of a thousand pounds on a four coach train. (Put it like that, and it seems even more expensive!!) Personally, I’d love to see it in a magazine as a project, but these days the magazines seem to stick to “titivating up” models with minor modifications or extra detailing, or fitting DCC chips and/or sound, rather than the Dr Frankenstein-like cut & shuts of yesteryear, so maybe RMWeb is the place for such a project? If anyone can post links to existing RMWeb threads I’d also be grateful (simply don’t seem to be able to get the hang of the RMWeb search facility, and Google churns out far too many “hits” to be truly useful!!) HOURS OF FUN! Edited June 18, 2021 by SteveyDee68 Typos 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Bill Bedford does or did etched brass overlays for the sides of the Buffet Car, for not a lot of £. Your issue then would be a matching paint job, and also matching the silver edged Bachmann windows. You can tell I've been thinking about this as well! John. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Link here; https://mousa-models.co.uk/product-category/4mm/4-coaches/coach_sides/br-coach_sides/ John. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Wait, the BEP is 500 sovs???? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted June 17, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 17, 2021 57 minutes ago, Sophia NSE said: Wait, the BEP is 500 sovs???? £495 to be precise , although you may get it at a discount . If it’s 15% which I think Bachmann allow on new models that should bring it down to about £430 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railfreight1998 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 59 minutes ago, Sophia NSE said: Wait, the BEP is 500 sovs???? Yep https://www.Bachmann.co.uk/product/class-410-4-bep-4-car-emu-7010-br-blue-and-grey/31-491 Although it's only (!) 425 here https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/56745/31-490-Bachmann-4-BEP-4-Car-EMU-Set-number-7005-BR-Green Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted June 17, 2021 Administrators Share Posted June 17, 2021 10 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: Personally, I’d love to see it in a magazine as a project, but these days the magazines seem to stick to “titivating up” models with minor modifications or extra detailing, or fitting DCC chips and/or sound, rather than the Dr Frankenstein-like cut & shuts of yesteryear, so maybe RMWeb is the place for such a project? If you are interested in writing your efforts up, I'm sure we'd be interested in publishing. It's a massive job for a staff member to do timewise, which is why it's more suited to a freelancer doing the modification as a hobby and looking to recoup some of the cost of the work through publishing. PM me if you are planning to do it and I'll advise on photography etc. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 5 hours ago, John Tomlinson said: Bill Bedford does or did etched brass overlays for the sides of the Buffet Car, for not a lot of £. Your issue then would be a matching paint job, and also matching the silver edged Bachmann windows. You can tell I've been thinking about this as well! John. I'd not realised the Bill did those. One option would be to use the MJT refurbished 4-CEP sides and the Bill Bedford unrefurbished buffet car sides, and produce a mid-1980s era 4-TEP. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said: I'd not realised the Bill did those. One option would be to use the MJT refurbished 4-CEP sides and the Bill Bedford unrefurbished buffet car sides, and produce a mid-1980s era 4-TEP. Interesting, but not in my time frame! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted June 17, 2021 Author Share Posted June 17, 2021 5 hours ago, John Tomlinson said: Link here; https://mousa-models.co.uk/product-category/4mm/4-coaches/coach_sides/br-coach_sides/ John. Just to thank you, John, for the link. I had no idea somebody produced sides to do this, but then on reflection its a bit obvious isn't it?! I don't know if instructions are provided upon how to do the modification, or whether it is a one-size-fits-all solution to using brass side overlays on coaches? I am going to have a hunt around RMWeb and see if anyone has written up such projects before. What I need to do now is snap up one of those "cheap" (er) eBay offerings before they disappear! I already have 2 x 4-CEPs (with different running numbers) and a MLV, so a 4-BEP would let me run a full length EMU 'boat train'! As to colour matching - perhaps I should think about respraying the whole set, and using suitable decals to number them up? After all, I have two Bachmann models to show me where everything goes! Thanks for all the responses. Steve S 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 15 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: Just to thank you, John, for the link. I had no idea somebody produced sides to do this, but then on reflection its a bit obvious isn't it?! I don't know if instructions are provided upon how to do the modification, or whether it is a one-size-fits-all solution to using brass side overlays on coaches? I am going to have a hunt around RMWeb and see if anyone has written up such projects before. What I need to do now is snap up one of those "cheap" (er) eBay offerings before they disappear! I already have 2 x 4-CEPs (with different running numbers) and a MLV, so a 4-BEP would let me run a full length EMU 'boat train'! As to colour matching - perhaps I should think about respraying the whole set, and using suitable decals to number them up? After all, I have two Bachmann models to show me where everything goes! Thanks for all the responses. Steve S The standard procedure for using etched sides is - bend them to shape - if not so provided by supplier, - check they are a good match to the sides of the donor in terms of size, may need a bit of filing or filler, - solder in hinges, door handles, grab rails, anything else metal, - cut sides of donor vehicle so that the windows in the new sides will show clear, with some space around openings to fit glazing, - smooth off sides of donor vehicle of all raised detail, - glue etched sides to donor, many folk use Evo-stik, - paint new sides - some people do this before glueing, you might do the whole set to get a precise match, - glaze windows and apply transfers for linnig, numbers etc. If I've forgotten anything please can someone else shout! I keep a vague eye on Ebay prices for these, the green ones seem to go for anything from £90 - £150. John. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted June 18, 2021 Author Share Posted June 18, 2021 4 hours ago, John Tomlinson said: I keep a vague eye on Ebay prices for these, the green ones seem to go for anything from £90 - £150. Likewise, but can also be seen upwards of £230 as well! Thanks for the general run down of the process. Soldering on grab handles etc. Oh dear. I think some practice required before wrecking a lovely new coach side! HOURS OF FUN! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 If Bachmann had produced the refurbished CEPs and BEPs I might have stayed with my original idea for a late 80s/early 90s NSE layout. One unit in the toothpaste livery and another in Jaffa cake livery Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted June 18, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 18, 2021 2 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: Likewise, but can also be seen upwards of £230 as well! Thanks for the general run down of the process. Soldering on grab handles etc. Oh dear. I think some practice required before wrecking a lovely new coach side! HOURS OF FUN! Great topic!!! Whilst soldering on handrails and hinges is more robust, you can use small dabs of superglue to attach hinges and handrails. I did that with the coach sides on this LMS Kitchen Car - no soldering done at all. Cheers Darius 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Stage 1 complete - picked up a(nother) (boxed) Bachmann 4-CEP off eBay for only £8 more BIN/offer than I bid on an unboxed version! Very pleased at well under £150!! Now to order the etched coach sides!! HOURS OF FUN! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 3 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: Stage 1 complete - picked up a(nother) (boxed) Bachmann 4-CEP off eBay for only £8 more BIN/offer than I bid on an unboxed version! Very pleased at well under £150!! Now to order the etched coach sides!! HOURS OF FUN! I can remember when we got them for £89.00 brand new from hattons. Those where the day's not like now £400 plus for a 4 car unit. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 1 hour ago, crompton 33 said: I can remember when we got them for £89.00 brand new from hattons. Those where the day's not like now £400 plus for a 4 car unit. I bought 3 of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 I have to say that I picked up my first 4-CEP off eBay for £115 which I was really pleased with, having spent £110 at my local model shop for a Hornby 2-HAL! I then picked up a real bargain with a 2-EPB off eBay, so celebrated with a MLV from the model shop. Basically, every time I pick up a bargain off eBay, I feel I can justify spending a little bit more by supporting my local model shop. Having said that, I got my second 4-CEP "legitimately" but at a bargain price because it had sat in stock for so long! Not as cheap as £89 though! I've ordered two sets of sides, because I am bound to mess something up! What I need to also do is work out what is different with the chassis and think of a way of modelling that. Of course, all the magazines have done quite detailed reviews of the 4-BEP with lots of photos, so hopefully those will guide me (if nothing else!) Of course, what would be even more useful would be able to pick up a relevant spare carriage from a 4-CEP - that way, I could have two goes at it! HOURS OF FUN! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted June 30, 2021 Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) I have a Southern Pride 4 BEP, built but unpowered. It presents the same problems as using the brass sides, i.e. the matching of colours and of those lovely silver window frames Bachmann do. The SP green is somewhat darker than Bachmann's paint colour. It would be easy for me to run it in my CEP formations as is, but the greens really don't match, and this is very noticeable. I have plenty of CEP units, all but one bought for £104 or less - the cheapest was a blue and grey unit at $AUS50.00 plus postage (approximately £25 - 30 odd). I can easily spare one for conversion, but that brings us back to those paint matching problems. Edited June 30, 2021 by SRman Problems with 'e' key 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 5 hours ago, SRman said: Southern Pride 4 BEP, built but unpowered. It presents the same problems as using the brass sides, i.e. the matching of colours and of those lovely silver window frames Bachmann do. For me, the whole project will be 'new ground' and so colour matching the Bachmann model and replicating the silver window frames will simply be additional challenges rather than something holding me back! "It's a teacup of water over the head of a drowning man" Besides, if I manage to do this, anyone can! HOURS OF FUN! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted June 30, 2021 Author Share Posted June 30, 2021 (edited) Just spotted another keenly priced unit... Must resist ... Must resist ... HOURS OF TEMPTATION FUN! Edited June 30, 2021 by SteveyDee68 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 1, 2021 Author Share Posted July 1, 2021 Now here’s a thought … How much would be reasonable to pay someone to produce the necessary “buffet” coach to adapt a 4-CEP? The new model works out at £100+ per coach, but if the 4-CEP donor is purchased cheaply enough, paying somebody to produce the buffet car could still work out a lot cheaper than a new full 4-BEP… I suppose there might be some small compromises here and there, but … It’s got me thinking!! Anybody want to throw some figures around or offer to do the job?! HOURS OF FUN! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkersson Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 44 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said: Now here’s a thought … How much would be reasonable to pay someone to produce the necessary “buffet” coach to adapt a 4-CEP? The new model works out at £100+ per coach, but if the 4-CEP donor is purchased cheaply enough, paying somebody to produce the buffet car could still work out a lot cheaper than a new full 4-BEP… I suppose there might be some small compromises here and there, but … It’s got me thinking!! Anybody want to throw some figures around or offer to do the job?! HOURS OF FUN! For a good conversion, with a good paint finish to match the other vehicles I think you'd be looking around £200 for a blue/grey coach, less for a plain blue or green. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Geep7 Posted July 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Monkersson said: For a good conversion, with a good paint finish to match the other vehicles I think you'd be looking around £200 for a blue/grey coach, less for a plain blue or green. This is a good point. I think blue/grey is one of the more difficult liveries to paint. That thin white line with the curved corners..... It's why I have a Southern Pride blue/grey 4-Cig kit waiting to be built, and the MJT sided 4-Cig will be painted in green. And also why my scratchbuilt/kitbashed 3-TC is plain blue. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Another thought would be to buy a cheap green 4-CEP, do the buffet car conversion, and then spray the lot to be the much rarer BR overall blue. I wonder if two green CEP's ever ran with a blue BEP? You'd still need to think of a way to get the new windows to match the Bachmann silver edged ones however. John. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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