SteveyDee68 Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 (edited) With much muttering - nay, cursing - I have managed to remove the bodyshell from the TS coach to compare how things are put together… Unhelpfully (for my OCD if nothing else) the big arrows on the two PCBs in the TS coach point in the same direction. 🤪 I’m going to assume that Bachmann know what they are doing and that as the buffet car only assembles one way that arrows be damned etc etc Now, see if anyone can spot the difference… TS (4 CEP) (Ignore the keyboard behind!!) Buffet (4 BEP) If you zoom in on the first photo, you will see little plastic “caps” on the end of the metal tags - I assume that the wires pass through the holes (as seen in the tags in the lower photo) and then the plastic “caps” push on, trapping the wire in place and effectively completing a “no-solder” joint. Clever, and speeds up assembly no end. Bother* 🤬 These are not listed as spares on the website - in fact, I wouldn’t even know how to describe them! The wires are incredibly thin - I don’t think pushing them through the holes and then bringing them back on themselves and twisting them together will work, not least because I suspect they will snap. Any suggestions? If the answer is “solder them”, then please advise how to do such thin wires - low heat etc? Whilst here, I do wish Bachmann would use a better method of fastening body shell to chassis - lugs from chassis into glazing is definitely dodgy as I’ve broken two despite being incredibly careful trying to prise the body from the underframe! HOURS OF FUN! * Or words to that effect Edited August 1, 2023 by SteveyDee68 Spilling mistooks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 Bachmann contacted about 'plastic clips' for PCB boards... I still think soldering may be involved to move this forward! Steve S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 A really quick email response from Bachmann Spares - they do, indeed, do the clips as spares (sold singly at £0.50 each) so I will be ordering some just as soon as their website starts behaving properly again* For anyone also attempting the “Build-A-Bear” method to produce a buffet car, the link to the PCB tabs (as Bachmann call them) is here Just don’t buy them before I get some!! 😁 HOURS OF FUN! * The Bachmann Spares website keeps failing to load; I can only assume it is due to the sheer number of RMWeb members frantically attempting to order parts to build their own buffet car from spares!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted August 2, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2023 Looks like the Bachmann Spares website is slower than their product development. Presumably running on a 286 with a copper wire connection to the net. Gave up after it crashed after 20 mins trying to load a page. Cheers Darius 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Darius43 said: Looks like the Bachmann Spares website is slower than their product development. Presumably running on a 286 with a copper wire connection to the net. Gave up after it crashed after 20 mins trying to load a page. Cheers Darius I’ve been trying on/off all day and last message said there was an internal server area preventing completion of my request! Given up for now and will be thinking about <gulp> soldering!! Edited August 2, 2023 by SteveyDee68 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 2, 2023 Author Share Posted August 2, 2023 Well, as they say, persistence pays… Finally - and this is waiting up to 3 mins at a time for the pages to update - I was able to order six of the clips, meaning I can avoid messing things up with a hot soldering iron by waiting just a few days! Had an email from their Help people saying that the whole website was running slowly today, and that their IT people were looking into it. I hope they get it sorted quickly - it really felt like a giant throwback to dial-up internet speeds etc! Steve S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold CHAZ D Posted August 3, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 3, 2023 It worked fine today! Ordered a body and seating as I have a spare coach someone gave me. Hope its just a straight swap. I can modify the underframe to match. then I will have to renumber the remaining coaches of the 4CEP set. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted August 3, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) Still agonisingly slow for me. Got to the update shopping cart stage. You have to click the update cart button before going to the checkout as, if you don’t, the items you select are not added to the shopping cart and you have to start again… Update - order processed successfully. phew. Darius Edited August 3, 2023 by Darius43 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 (edited) On 17/06/2021 at 19:45, Legend said: £495 to be precise , although you may get it at a discount . If it’s 15% which I think Bachmann allow on new models that should bring it down to about £430 . over 2 years on and TMC will do a BEP for £375 or thereabouts. Given we've had 10%+ inflation, what's the real terms crossover point of the cost (parts+time) vs RTR? I say this as someone who has spent plenty of both on cheap projects that aren't quite so much so at the end. 🙂 Of course the whole process kicks off again now with the newly-announced refurbished TEP/CEP...now where's that MTK kit? Edited August 3, 2023 by andyman7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
73c Posted August 3, 2023 Share Posted August 3, 2023 Just did an order, out of stock on the screw pack and the PCB board, forgot to order the PCB tabs but will do when rest back in stock. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted August 5, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 5, 2023 (edited) Parts received from Bachmann this morning and assembled. Apologies from the thread hijack but tremendous thanks to SteveyDee68 for letting us know about the Bachmann Spares route to getting a BEP TRB. Cheers Darius Edited August 5, 2023 by Darius43 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 6, 2023 Author Share Posted August 6, 2023 21 hours ago, Darius43 said: Parts received from Bachmann this morning and assembled. Apologies from the thread hijack but tremendous thanks to SteveyDee68 for letting us know about the Bachmann Spares route to getting a BEP TRB. Cheers Darius Not a thread hijack at all, @Darius43 - looking good from here! My tabs arrived yesterday morning but as it was my birthday I didn’t have opportunity to open them up! Today, whilst packing for a two week stint of dog/house-sitting, I hope to pop upstairs and assemble my own TRB and assemble my “4-BEP” and check power connections and lighting etc. (It appears I accidentally purchased a DCC chip-fitted 4-CEP off eBay, so this may be easier said than done!) Once renumbered, I shall have a grand total of three 4-CEP sets, a 4-BEP and a MLV, so will be in a position of being able to assemble a correct formation boat train EMU - 4CEP+4BEP+4CEP+TLV. All I need to do after that is build a layout to fit it/run it on!! HOURS OF FUN! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Turbutt Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 On 02/08/2023 at 00:01, SteveyDee68 said: If you zoom in on the first photo, you will see little plastic “caps” on the end of the metal tags - I assume that the wires pass through the holes (as seen in the tags in the lower photo) and then the plastic “caps” push on, trapping the wire in place and effectively completing a “no-solder” joint. Clever, and speeds up assembly no end. Bother* 🤬 These are not listed as spares on the website - in fact, I wouldn’t even know how to describe them! The wires are incredibly thin - I don’t think pushing them through the holes and then bringing them back on themselves and twisting them together will work, not least because I suspect they will snap. Any suggestions? My order was delivered today - I think I must have had one of the last green bodies as they are now showing 'out of stock' although they still have the blue-grey version available. I doubt if there will be any more as I guess these are left over from the production runs. I would just mention for any intended future puchasers that instead of buying separately you can buy the PCB board and underframe as a combined item - listed a bit further down the parts list. This has the advantage that the clips are already provided. I think the price is the same as buying them individually. I came across this thread purely by chance when I was searching the internet in the hope that there might be some seriously discounted Bachmann 4BEPs (but to no avail!) as, although I would have liked one, I was not prepared to pay the +£400ish that was being offered by model shops. After all, the only new tooling was the buffet car. Your RM thread, Steve, was listed in the browsing options which lead to this happy result. Like you and others I had some while ago purchased the Moussa brass buffet car sides/overlays but these have laid in the 'to do' pile for some while as a conversion seemed rather daunting, not least to match the paint shade and silver window frames as has already been mentioned earlier in this thread. The underframe would also needed altering on the donor coach. I already have 2 4CEP units, one of which will now be converted to a 4BEP, and an MLV. I will not bother to renumber the donor 4CEP unit as I don't think anyone will notice and I wouldn't make a good job of it anyway. All I need to do now is decide whether or not to buy a cheap second hand 4CEP. I wonder if any services just ran as 4CEP+4BEP+MLV. Does anyone have any photos of such a formation as a 13 car train would be rather long on my track. Thanks again Steve for bringing this to our attention. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, Keith Turbutt said: My order was delivered today - I think I must have had one of the last green bodies as they are now showing 'out of stock' although they still have the blue-grey version available. I doubt if there will be any more as I guess these are left over from the production runs. I would just mention for any intended future puchasers that instead of buying separately you can buy the PCB board and underframe as a combined item - listed a bit further down the parts list. This has the advantage that the clips are already provided. I think the price is the same as buying them individually. I came across this thread purely by chance when I was searching the internet in the hope that there might be some seriously discounted Bachmann 4BEPs (but to no avail!) as, although I would have liked one, I was not prepared to pay the +£400ish that was being offered by model shops. After all, the only new tooling was the buffet car. Your RM thread, Steve, was listed in the browsing options which lead to this happy result. Like you and others I had some while ago purchased the Moussa brass buffet car sides/overlays but these have laid in the 'to do' pile for some while as a conversion seemed rather daunting, not least to match the paint shade and silver window frames as has already been mentioned earlier in this thread. The underframe would also needed altering on the donor coach. I already have 2 4CEP units, one of which will now be converted to a 4BEP, and an MLV. I will not bother to renumber the donor 4CEP unit as I don't think anyone will notice and I wouldn't make a good job of it anyway. All I need to do now is decide whether or not to buy a cheap second hand 4CEP. I wonder if any services just ran as 4CEP+4BEP+MLV. Does anyone have any photos of such a formation as a 13 car train would be rather long on my track. Thanks again Steve for bringing this to our attention. Thanks for this heads up. Having been stupid enough not to order one of these straight away, you are quite right that they are now listed "out of stock". It does however say that more are on their way, which I hope is the case. If so I won't repeat my mistake. John. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 11, 2023 Author Share Posted August 11, 2023 (edited) On 10/08/2023 at 12:28, Keith Turbutt said: I would just mention for any intended future puchasers that instead of buying separately you can buy the PCB board and underframe as a combined item - listed a bit further down the parts list. That’s really helpful information, Keith - wish I’d seen that rather than go through the angst of contemplating having to solder the connections up! 🤭 (My soldering iron and I have not yet reestablished diplomat relations after the unfortunate incident that occurred the first time we attempted anything together*) On 10/08/2023 at 12:28, Keith Turbutt said: Your RM thread, Steve, was listed in the browsing options which lead to this happy result. Really pleased this proved helpful - I was only reporting what another modeller had posted on a FaceBook group, so cannot claim any credit for the actual idea of raiding ordering from Bachmann Spares to assemble the buffet car! On 10/08/2023 at 12:28, Keith Turbutt said: Moussa brass buffet car sides/overlays … conversion seemed rather daunting, not least to match the paint shade and silver window frames Oh boy, I can totally empathise with the above statement! Which was why the “spares” route is a godsend! On 10/08/2023 at 12:47, John Tomlinson said: … listed as “out of stock". It does however say that more are on their way, which I hope is the case. When I revisited the site for the tabs for the PCBs I noticed various components had changed to “out of stock” and assumed it was modellers picking up on both the original FaceBook post and my thread here and getting the necessary materials for the project. Annoyingly I ordered the Continental Commonwealth style bogies (as per the FaceBook post) not spotting that these are actually for the later blue/grey livery - as these bogies are now currently out of stock, if anyone on RMWeb wants to create the blue/grey buffet coach and wants them off me, I’m happy to do a direct swap for a pair of the standard bogies as originally provided on the 4BEPs! What I haven’t been able to do yet is assemble my coach - I’m home on Sunday for a Gong Bath** so might just be able to squeeze that in whilst home!! Steve S * Some numpty*** decided to check if the tip was up to temperature with his finger! 😖 ** It’s a real thing, seriously, supposed to be as relaxing as a full 8 hours of sleep in just an hour! *** me Edited August 27, 2023 by SteveyDee68 Corrected bogie descriptor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 (edited) I just did a quick conversion using the blue and grey body received today from Bachmann Spares, plus a buffet interior I bought with a previous order from them. I used the standard TSK from the CEP unit, so had to adapt the buffet seat unit to match the lighting pcb to the direction of the underframe pcb, which mainly involved cutting and filing new notches for the clips on the underframe and extending three of the screw holes (and ignoring the fourth as being too hard!). This means that the copper (?) bars connecting the two don't line up correctly, so I may have to hard-wire connections using a couple of 2-pin connectors, or maybe one 4-pin connector. That's for later. I checked carefully that what I had done wasn't causing any problems when coupled up to the DMBS and the TCK - all good, just no interior lights in the buffet, which was to be expected, of course. I have some suitable bogies to swap over later. Then I'll have to see about adding some of the extra underframe details. Edit: At present, this means the buffet actually faces the wrong way in the set. I may have to reverse both pcbs, but then I'll have to be careful with the connections. Still, it's a good start. Edited August 11, 2023 by SRman 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Turbutt Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 (edited) Hi Steve, Nothing to loose by asking Bachmann if you could return your Commonwealth bogies and swap for the correct ones. I don't know how long you have had these bogies but under the distance selling regulations I believe you can legitimately return them for a refund as long as you are not out of time. I think it may be 2 weeks. Looking through photos yesterday I couldn't find one in green livery as an 8 car (CEP+BEP) with an MLV. There is a Colour Rail photo of a green 8 car (CEP+BEP) but without an MLV. This photo has been used in some of the BEP advertising. I think Hattons used it Yesterday I came across a website called 'Blood and Custard' which includes a very comprehensive article on CEPs,BEPs and MLVs which you may find interesting if you haven't already found it. Strange since they were never in blood and custard! - although I did like the short lived Jaffa cake livery but this is very much out of my time period. Edited August 11, 2023 by Keith Turbutt Furth info added and realised my opening remark was incorrect 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 21 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said: ... snipped ... I already have 2 4CEP units, one of which will now be converted to a 4BEP, and an MLV. I will not bother to renumber the donor 4CEP unit as I don't think anyone will notice and I wouldn't make a good job of it anyway. All I need to do now is decide whether or not to buy a cheap second hand 4CEP. I wonder if any services just ran as 4CEP+4BEP+MLV. Does anyone have any photos of such a formation as a 13 car train would be rather long on my track. Thanks again Steve for bringing this to our attention. Modellers Licence: we run shortened formations to suit limited space on our layouts, so why not accept a CEP + BEP + MLV as a compromise representing a longer formation? My own memories go back to green formations of CEP/BEP/CEP + one or two MLVs, so up to 14 cars long, but my layout can fit a maximum of 3 x CEPs + only one MLV (I can substitute a BEP for a CEP now!), and that's only really in one of the storage loops. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Turbutt Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, SRman said: Modellers Licence: we run shortened formations to suit limited space on our layouts, so why not accept a CEP + BEP + MLV as a compromise representing a longer formation. Hi SRman, Thanks for your message. Yes you are quite right and I will do that but I find that the research is half the fun in this hobby. I was surprised how few colour photos I could find of green EMUs. I guess as it was still in the steam period people saved their precious film for steam - as I did. Unlike today's digital scene when anything that moves gets photographed or videod! My primary interest is LNER/GER in BR late 50s mainly through nostalgia when I started train spotting so my SR units will not even run on 3rd rail track! Edited August 11, 2023 by Keith Turbutt Added 'colour' photos 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 11, 2023 Author Share Posted August 11, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, SRman said: Modellers Licence: we run shortened formations to suit limited space on our layouts, so why not accept a CEP + BEP + MLV as a compromise representing a longer formation? The thought has crossed my mind! 😁 Reading the General Theory of Minories thread, I think it is mentioned somewhere that a scale length train is actually highly repetitive and that lengthening the Minories track plan to accept such trains (for example) does not improve the operation of the layout and actually leads to a visual imbalance. My thoughts via a vis the 13 car boat train formations is linked to my desire (expressed elsewhere) to model a train ferry in OO* - at the end of the day, I may well sacrifice prototypical workings in favour of artistic impression/balance, hence a 9 car formation being representative of a 13 car formation. Of course, having the option to run a full length train is always welcome! Steve S * Probably because in the 1970s it was done in N gauge with the article tagline “There are some things you can only do in N” - is it only me that thinks “challenge accepted”! Edited August 11, 2023 by SteveyDee68 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
73c Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 The pcb and screw pack still out of stock for about a month now, fingers crossed they turn up soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7111a Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 Sorry if this has been asked but what is the correct coupling formation of the Bachmann BEP Is it DMBS (odd) + TCK + TRB + DMBS (even) and if so, what way round is the TCK and TRB Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Turbutt Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 (edited) Hi Robert, Can't help with odd/even DMBSs but first class end of TCK next to TRB. TRB seated end (3 windows) nearest to TCK. See colour photo on Colour Rail. I've tried too zoom in on leading DMBS but can't read the coach number. I think this photo was used in Bachmans or Hattons promotion of the 4 BEP. If anyone has bought a Bachman 4 BEP the instructions may have the information you need. I was not prepared to pay the prices being asked and settled for a TRB from Bachman Spares and was lucky enough to get one of their last green ones. Personally I'm not bothered about unit numbers or coach numbers as they are so small they cannot be read on a moving train at normal viewing distance. I have inserted a TRB into a 4 CEP, replacing the TSK (all second) and shan't bother to do any renumbering. Edited September 28, 2023 by Keith Turbutt 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Turbutt Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 (edited) Hi again Robert Further to my recent post, I would recommend reference to the 'Blood and Custard' web site Blood and Custard - 4 BEP & 4 CEP https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-4BEP-4CEP.html This will have all the information you require - and much more! Acccording to the table, phase 1 units (7003 - 7012) had the TRB next to the even number DMBS. The Bachmann 4BEPs are 7005 (green) and 7010 (Blue Grey)' The phase 2 units (7013 - 7022) the TRB appears to be next to the odd number DMBS. Edited September 28, 2023 by Keith Turbutt 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert7111a Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 Thank you Keith, that is very very useful 😊 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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