John Tomlinson Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Monkersson said: For a good conversion, with a good paint finish to match the other vehicles I think you'd be looking around £200 for a blue/grey coach, less for a plain blue or green. Quite so, and at that kind of money you could buy a compressor and mid range airbrush and teach yourself the skills, still I suspect with some savings! John. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkersson Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 34 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said: Quite so, and at that kind of money you could buy a compressor and mid range airbrush and teach yourself the skills, still I suspect with some savings! John. Totally agree John!!! Going way back to 1990 or so I wanted the Lima Dutch livery Class 47 but I couldn't afford it. I bought a cheap airbrush that fitted onto a propellant can, used the Humbrol paints that I had lying around and sprayed up an old Hornby 47 myself. Most certainly wasn't the best job but it gave me the confidence to keep trying, and I'm very happy with the results I can now achieve. Now I don't bat an eyelid at respraying something to get what I want (I'll never bleat on about a manufacturer not release X product in Y livery) 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, Monkersson said: Totally agree John!!! Going way back to 1990 or so I wanted the Lima Dutch livery Class 47 but I couldn't afford it. I bought a cheap airbrush that fitted onto a propellant can, used the Humbrol paints that I had lying around and sprayed up an old Hornby 47 myself. Most certainly wasn't the best job but it gave me the confidence to keep trying, and I'm very happy with the results I can now achieve. Now I don't bat an eyelid at respraying something to get what I want (I'll never bleat on about a manufacturer not release X product in Y livery) When I started I found airbrushing to be very difficult indeed, nearly forty years ago there was little information, no sites like RM web, and no Youtube videos! Nonetheless, as you say, once you get there the world is your oyster, irrespective of what the RTR boys do or don't provide. John. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Geep7 said: This is a good point. I think blue/grey is one of the more difficult liveries to paint. That thin white line with the curved corners..... It's why I have a Southern Pride blue/grey 4-Cig kit waiting to be built, and the MJT sided 4-Cig will be painted in green. And also why my scratchbuilt/kitbashed 3-TC is plain blue. Modelmaster did do the white line to use on Blue/grey coaches . With the curved corners. I still have a spare set . They may still stock them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Geep7 Posted July 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2021 8 minutes ago, crompton 33 said: Modelmaster did do the white line to use on Blue/grey coaches . With the curved corners. I still have a spare set . They may still stock them. I believe Fox do them as well. It's just been a livery i've shy'd away from. I'd have to practise first before doing a full unit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Darius43 Posted July 1, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Geep7 said: I believe Fox do them as well. It's just been a livery i've shy'd away from. I'd have to practise first before doing a full unit. I used Fox Transfers white lining decals on this DC Kits AM5 and they are great. They go on very well if you take your time with the application. Cheers Darius 6 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) Oh, man … What have I done? In a fit of a devil-may-care “s*d it” after missing out on the job yesterday (and after also drinking Old Rosie cloudy cider and some very nice spiced rum from Barbados!) I have bid on another 4-CEP … Or five … 😬 The first auction finishes in 10 minutes and I have a nasty feeling I may win it! Possibly also the others … I don’t really remember bidding on them! What would I do with eight 4-CEPs?! More importantly, what is that going to do to my bank balance?!! Never mind caveat emptor … How about “Bid in haste, repent at leisure”? Fingers crossed I don’t win the auctions!! HOURS OF NAIL BITING! Edited February 24, 2023 by SteveyDee68 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia NSE Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 5 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: Oh, man … What have I done? In a fit of a devil-may-care “s*d it” after missing out on the job yesterday (and after also drinking Old Rosie cloudy cider and some very nice spiced rum from Barbados!) I have bid on another 4-CEP … Or five … The first auction finishes in 10 minutes and I have a nasty feeling I may win it! Possibly also the others … I don’t really remember bidding on them! What would I do with eight 4-CEPs?! More importantly, what is that going to do to my bank balance?!! Never mind caveat emptor … How about “Bid in haste, repent at leisure”? Fingers crossed I don’t win the auctions!! HOURS OF NAIL BITING! Ooooooh I know what you can do! Get the sides to convert some into refurbed units! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 2, 2021 Author Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) UPDATE I won it… For £120 + £7.90 postage … Which I still feel is a bargain for a 4-CEP … Normally I would be delighted … This does not bode well for my bank account in the next few days! And another seller just sent me an offer - £130 for their 4-CEP … Aaaarrrrgggghhhhhh!!!! 😳 ORIGINALLY POSTED 9 HOURS AGO, BUT ACCIDENTALLY SENT AS A DM TO AN UNSUSPECTING MODERATOR!!! Edited February 24, 2023 by SteveyDee68 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 It would appear that somebody has actually been here before, in the person of @Wild Boar Fell - his thread describing his production of a 3D printed replacement body is somewhat moribund, but surely there is a market for those who have not the means to splash the cash on Bachmann's latest offering! Well - I can but live in hope! Steve S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 (edited) I now have the etched coach sides from Mousa Models and very nice they are, too! Seems a shame to spoil them ... 😆 So, here we go with a few questions, many of which I am sure are going to make a few readers think "Do a *%#$€ Google search!" but these never seem to work out for me ... Door hinges - @John Tomlinson in his earlier post referred to soldering these on: who sells 4mm scale door hinges, please? (I assume brass rather than white metal) Likewise, door handles and grab handles? (Again, I guess that it will turn out to be one supplier, but reading a few threads and searching for various products is drawing a blank, as if many small manufacturers have ceased to exist) I have a dual action airbrush and compressor ... I treated myself a couple of birthdays ago, but it hasn't yet squirted a puff of air in anger! (If it doesn't work now, I am well putside the warranty period! 🙄) Colour matching the Bachmann colour may be next to impossible, but which paint would RMWebbers recommend for air brushing? And what's the best match for BR coaching/emu/dmu stock green? The thorny issue of matching the window surrounds ... assuming I respray the whole 4 car set (gulp) and manage to mask off the superb Bachmann window frames properly (!), I wonder if there is a way to chemically treat the brass sides so that they are silver coloured? If there is a way of doing this that isn't silver plating (!), I guess it would need to be done before fixing the sides to the donor body. Which would also mean before soldering/fixing additional items to the sides. Would such a process impact upon fixing the sides to the body, or anything else to the coach sides once treated? (This is when, of course, I wish that I had understood more in Chemistry lessons at school, rather than given up in despair and tried to solve chemical formulae equations using Pythagoras's Theorem!) My thinking is to treat the sides, do all the necessary work to create the buffet car, mask up the window surrounds and paint the complete coach, no painting of window frames required. Of course, my thinking may be pie in the sky lunacy - that's where RMWeb can set me straight! I know - so many questions, but I'm hoping the hive mind of RMWeb might point me in the right direction (as long as it doesn't involve a chemistry GCSE textbook!) Steve S Edited February 24, 2023 by SteveyDee68 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 26 minutes ago, SteveyDee68 said: Door hinges - @John Tomlinson in his earlier post referred to soldering these on: who sells 4mm scale door hinges, please? (I assume brass rather than white metal) Likewise, door handles and grab handles? (Again, I guess that it will turn out to be one supplier, but reading a few threads and searching for various products is drawing a blank, as if many small manufacturers have ceased to exist) You can get a little etch of BR Mk1 door details from Southern Pride which will have everything you want - you need P108 off this page http://www.southernpridemodels.co.uk/html/brparts1.htm. He also does various roof fitting for BR loco hauled buffet cars that are probably useful for building a BEP buffet. Precision do the correct shade of BR(S) EMU green. Not sure how well this matches the Bachmann colour though. There's a whole rabbit hole you can go down around the correct shades of Southern green paint. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 Thank you @pete_mcfarlane - why I didn't think of Southern Pride?! Actually stumbled across an eBay auction of 4mm BR coach handles by P C Models, through following a link on the eBay madness thread, so was going to post asking whether they were any good? The listing shows a plastic bag with a card inner, but not in focus enough to read! Description (un)helpfully says "As per photo", but doesn't show the actual item and gives no indication of whether these are plastic, white metal or etched! Maybe I should stick to Southern Pride! HOURS OF FUN! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Geep7 Posted July 29, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 29, 2021 Dart Castings do a nice sheet of door knobs and handles in their MJT range: https://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2930.php It also includes hinges as well, which I've used on my 4-TC scratchbuild and DC-Kits MLV and Hap, but I'd be tempted to get some nice turned brass door handles and use those instead. Wizard Models will probably stock those. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) Looks like you've already had answers to your questions. Mine would be the same, for parts any of Southern Pride, MJT (part of Dart Castings) or Comet (part of Wizard models). Green paint. Precision is good for spraying, as is Railmatch. Whatever else you do, make sure you stir the paint thoroughly beforehand and after you've added thinner to spray. Otherwise the airbrush will clog and have to be cleaned out, and your vocabulary will deteriorate rapidly! By "thoroughly" I mean to a near ridiculous extent, long after it would be OK to brush on. It's best if you have a mechanical stirrer, Badger do one for around £15 that takes AA batteries. It's unlikely that your first spray will get a match for Bachmann Green, so let it dry out, think about whether it needs to be lighter or darker, and have another go having added a bit of black or white to the green. One great thing about spraying is that you should be able to do several coats without it looking overpainted, this is not least as your paint is thin (more thinners with a bit of paint added than actual paint). Do let it dry properly however, 24 hours and preferably more. Dependant on the shade of green, some blue or yellow added might get you nearer to a match. John. P.S. re. the silver plate. I can't really see how this would work as you'd have to mask around the window before applying the green. Whether you could somehow use the Bachmann windows from the coach you are replacing is another thought. Otherwise try a fine silver permanent marker after painting to go round the window edge, you should find any slips can be tidied up with the faintest trace of enamel thinner such as white spirit on a fine brush. This won't be easy however. Edited July 30, 2021 by John Tomlinson P.S. re silver plate 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkersson Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 22 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said: I now have the etched coach sides from Mousa Models and very nice they are, too! Seems a shame to spoil them ... So, here we go with a few questions, many of which I am sure are going to make a few readers think "Do a *%#$€ Google search!" but these never seem to work out for me ... Door hinges - @John Tomlinson in his earlier post referred to soldering these on: who sells 4mm scale door hinges, please? (I assume brass rather than white metal) Likewise, door handles and grab handles? (Again, I guess that it will turn out to be one supplier, but reading a few threads and searching for various products is drawing a blank, as if many small manufacturers have ceased to exist) I have a dual action airbrush and compressor ... I treated myself a couple of birthdays ago, but it hasn't yet squirted a puff of air in anger! (If it doesn't work now, I am well putside the warranty period! ) Colour matching the Bachmann colour may be next to impossible, but which paint would RMWebbers recommend for air brushing? And what's the best match for BR coaching/emu/dmu stock green? The thorny issue of matching the window surrounds ... assuming I respray the whole 4 car set (gulp) and manage to mask off the superb Bachmann window frames properly (!), I wonder if there is a way to chemically treat the brass sides so that they are silver coloured? If there is a way of doing this that isn't silver plating (!), I guess it would need to be done before fixing the sides to the donor body. Which would also mean before soldering/fixing additional items to the sides. Would such a process impact upon fixing the sides to the body, or anything else to the coach sides once treated? (This is when, of course, I wish that I had understood more in Chemistry lessons at school, rather than given up in despair and tried to solve chemical formulae equations using Pythagoras's Theorem!) My thinking is to treat the sides, do all the necessary work to create the buffet car, mask up the window surrounds and paint the complete coach, no painting of window frames required. Of course, my thinking may be pie in the sky lunacy - that's where RMWeb can set me straight! I know - so many questions, but I'm hoping the hive mind of RMWeb might point me in the right direction (as long as it doesn't involve a chemistry GCSE textbook!) Steve S I cant help with the plating but a few pointers with paint and spraying... I work mainly with enamels for my model railway stuff, Railmatch and Precision are my go to, though I am hearing good things about Rainbow Railways fledgling range. The key to a good paint finish is patience! And preparation. Prepping the surface of the etched sides is very important. Clean the finished shell well with something like CIF to degrease, rinse well and leave to air dry. Some people swear by etch primers, its not something I've used, and had no problems. My preference is the Halfords range of primers - not the plastic primer though. Normally I use grey or white primer, but recently I've been experimenting with a black primer with good results - the van below was primed with black primer. As John says above, make sure the paint is very well mixed, thin enough to drip from a cocktail stick, thick enough not to run. I always use a thinner rather than white spirit to thin the paint. Spray your first coats in a consistent manner and ensure you get full coverage. To do this I'll do one side straight on, one end, the other side, the other end. Then I repeat with the airbrush at an angle pointing down. Finally I repeat but at a 3/4 view, ie side and end. All of it 2 or 3 light passes at a time, this allows the coverage to slowly build up. I generally stop once I start to see the colour building - not fully opaque, but a level coating. After 24/48 hours, repeat all of the above but with the bodyshell inverted. Finally once all done and after another 24/48 hours spray in the parts that where trickier to reach. I would be tempted to paint all the cars in the unit to ensure a paint match, but that may be too daunting for a first timer Once fully painted, gloss coat the shell with your choice of clear coat - I use Johnsons Floor Wax, it can be brushed on as it levels out when dry. After applying decals, varnish all the cars in the unit, that will give a consistent finish M 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 30, 2021 Author Share Posted July 30, 2021 (edited) Thank you, as always, for the replies and advice. I shall be checking out the suppliers mentioned for the various bits and pieces required. It has struck me as a bit odd that no instructions whatsoever came with the etched coach sides - is it a case of assuming that anybody using suchlike must be competent enough to know what they are doing?! Of course, nothing beats "doing" to learn these skills, so I will get myself some as-cheap-as-possible coaches to practice on, to get the hang of mixing paints correctly and spraying consistently. Surely I can pick up some old Triang continental coaches for a few squids from here and there! I should then feel confident enough to be respraying the cheap Airfix/GMR wagons I've picked up for Blackford Wharf, and from there progress (eventually) to the 4-BEP. If I can just find a way to replicate Bachmann's window frames that doesn't require the manual dexterity of a micro-surgeon ... HOURS OF FUN! Edited February 24, 2023 by SteveyDee68 Change of layout name! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted July 31, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2021 If the paint job doesn't match your expectations, you can always strip it and start again, some people tend to forget that. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold CHAZ D Posted October 16, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2021 I had a bit of luck a while back and was given a centre coach for a 4CEP so I will probably use that and have a rereversible set (numbering not withstanding) Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 And after all the advice I had freely given in this thread on the subject, a post on a Facebook group a few days ago sent me to Bachmann’s spares webpage to order the various bits and pieces required to build the buffet car! £110 lighter, but all the required bits in the correct livery are now in the post heading in my direction to assemble into a buffet car and change a 4CEP into a 4BEP! No worrying about paint colour matching 🤞 or of painting silver window frames 🤞 or even of finding door and grab handles - just assemble as per Bachmann instructions! Because it is just the one car that is different between a 4CEP and a 4BEP… Right?!!! 🤔 HOURS OF FUN! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) For anyone interested, here’s the information shared on Facebook… By the look of things the following: https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/1088/class491-4-tcunitscrewpackb-12screwabc32-640z-641z-642z-643z-644z-646z/e3264-264-02 https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/1422/class-410-4-bep-restaurant-car-trailer-bogie-31-490/e3149-223-02 NB OUT OF STOCK 01/08/2023 https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/1422/class-410-4-bep--body----br-blue-and-grey---s69009-31-491/e3149-200-07 https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/1422/class-410-4-bep-4-car-emu-pcb---trb--31-490/e3149-208-04 https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/1422/class-410-4-bep-4-car-emu-underframe---trb--31-490/e3149-210-05 Obviously you need two bogies! Hope this is helpful (and assuming Bachmann have not now had a mad rush on the above spares for obvious reasons!!) Steve S UPDATE 1 Just noticed that the link for the bodyshell above takes you to the blue/grey livery and not the green one I ordered (from the FaceBook post I copied from) UPDATE 2 The link to the bogie above is for the later Commonwealth bogies as fitted to the buffet cars in the early 1960s, not to the Mk 4 bogies as originally fitted. I didn't notice that when pasting the links above (the modeller sharing the information was modelling a later unit in blue grey livery). The Mk 4 bogie is still in stock as of 01/08/2023 here Edited August 1, 2023 by SteveyDee68 Updated information regarding Commonwealth bogie link 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 hour ago, SteveyDee68 said: For anyone interested, here’s the information shared on Facebook… By the look of things the following: https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/1088/class491-4-tcunitscrewpackb-12screwabc32-640z-641z-642z-643z-644z-646z/e3264-264-02 https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/1422/class-410-4-bep-restaurant-car-trailer-bogie-31-490/e3149-223-02 https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/1422/class-410-4-bep--body----br-blue-and-grey---s69009-31-491/e3149-200-07 https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/1422/class-410-4-bep-4-car-emu-pcb---trb--31-490/e3149-208-04 https://Bachmann-spares.co.uk/product/category/1422/class-410-4-bep-4-car-emu-underframe---trb--31-490/e3149-210-05 Obviously you need two bogies! Hope this is helpful (and assuming Bachmann have not now had a mad rush on the above spares for obvious reasons!!) Steve S Great stuff Steve and well spotted! When the parts turn up perhaps you could confirm to us all that the colours match OK on the bodyshell to your other 4-CEP coaches. Many thanks, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted July 31, 2023 Author Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 hours ago, John Tomlinson said: When the parts turn up perhaps you could confirm to us all that the colours match OK on the bodyshell to your other 4-CEP coaches. Yes, of course! After all, that’s the million dollar question! Mind you, I do have several sets to chose between to find a match… 😬 If none do, then it’s back to the airbrush etc for me. 😳 HOURS OF FUN!! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 For once I have opened up a parcel the same day it arrived through the post! Well done, Bachmann Spares - ordered in the early hours of Friday morning en route back from France and delivered Tuesday morning. As far as I can tell, the colour matches exactly the 4 CEP models which is - to be fair - what all the model press said in their reviews when the 4 BEP was released. So that is a ✅ as far as colour matching is concerned! The metal window frames - the source of so much worry about matching the Bachmann finish if repainting - are there in all their glory, too! Of course the next job is to assemble the coach correctly. Bachmann have - very kindly - printed really BIG arrows on the lighting PCB in the bodyshell roof and also the PCB that is labelled as "TS POWER PICK UP BOARD" and I have spent some time trying to assemble these with the arrows pointing in the same direction - which was an interesting exercise ... "interesting" as in "totally frustrating"! The power pick up board is sandwiched between the underframe and the interior moulding, and the bodyshell is then placed on top - I have to admit that I wasted a good half hour fiddling about, comparing photographs of how bodyside details relate to underframe details, puzzling about how these don't seem to match etc before I realised that Bachmann have designed assembly to be (almost) idiot proof... 1) Power Pick Up Board only sits into the underframe one way or the fastening points don't line up (!) 2) The interior detail likewise only sits on top of the PCB one way only, so that the power connectors to the roof attach correctly (!) 3) The body shell can then only fit one way for those same power connectors to touch the appropriate place in the roof PCB to transfer the power (!) Assembled correctly thus, the big arrows actually point in opposite directions (I did say it was almost idiot proof - I mean, base level idiots like myself expect arrows to point the same way!) All I have to do now is (a) work out what screws onto where (I have a bag full of screws and nothing to tell me what to do with them!) and (b) what do I do with the loose red and black wires on the underframe! I think I need to open up the TS coach in my 4 CEP to find out what to do with the wires... I have a very (very) nasty feeling I need to do some soldering 😮 Photos to follow! HOURS OF FUN! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveyDee68 Posted August 1, 2023 Author Share Posted August 1, 2023 I have just realised that I have ordered Commonwealth bogies (using the link provided earlier) for my buffet car, but these were only fitted in the early 1960s and so are not appropriate for the bodyshell I have (or the era I wish to model!). Upon visiting the Bachmann spares website, it reports that no more Commonwealth bogies are available! Maybe fellow EMU modellers are all grabbing the spares to do exactly the same 4 CEP >> 4 BEP upgrade 'on the cheap' like myself! Fortunately, I can always use the MK 4 bogies from the TS coach from my 'donor' 4 CEP* to complete my buffet build. In the meantime, if anyone wishes to model the later livery buffet car and in traversing the same 'spares' route can't wait for the Commonwealth bogies to come back into stock at Bachmann, I am happy to do a straight like for like swap** if they want to order a pair of Mk 4 bogies (which are currently still available - and a link to which I have added to my earlier post) HOURS OF FUN! * Just realised I could have saved myself £24 off the cost if I'd realised I already had suitable Mk 4 bogies to hand! Serves me right for ordering in the wee hours during a 22 hour long coach journey! ** I hope an offer of a swap doesn't contravene any selling rules on RMWeb 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now