Staines to West Drayton line

[Re6/6]

Does anybody know if there ever was a book published on the Staines and West Drayton Railway?

 

I've tried some book searches but to no avail. I have an idea that there was something published in the past.

 

Thanks.

[Engineer]

Not a good answer but I've been doing pre-model research for many years on the Uxbridge - West Drayton branch.  One of the book sources I found was, I think "Branch lines of West London", and there were other books, articles and internet items that helped with my line of interest.  In looking for Uxbridge material, I paid attention to anything on the Staines branch, too, but don't recall a specific book on that branch.

[Oldddudders]

I'm sure I have read on here of Chris Leigh having an interest in railways in this area, but whether he has formalised that in any published way I know not. 

[The Stationmaster]

John the best bet would be to drop Chris Leigh line as he is very much the expert on the line.  I know that someone has been doing a lot of research into the history of the branch as they contacted me about the working of the poil traffic so that might indicate that a book is in mind - I think Chris would know. 

 

As 'Engineer' mentioned it is covered in a Middleton Press volume but very typical of its kind so some information anda usful prmer to get you underway on wider research

 

https://www.middletonpress.co.uk/books/railways/branch-lines/branch-lines-of-west-london.html

[keefer]

There's a page on the line and West Drayton specifically at disused-stations:

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/west_drayton/index.shtml

 

There's a 'sources' list further down the page (just before the photos), along with links to pages about other stations on the line

[GoingUnderground]

Not a lot, but there's a paragraph on the line and a photo of Staines West station in 1963 in Frank Hornby's "London Suburban An illustrated history of the capital's commuter lines since 1948" published in 1995 by Silver Link Publishing, ISBN 1 85794 039 3. 

[hmrspaul]

I expect Chris Leigh (Dibber25 of this parish) will be along sometime soon. He has written various articles but I don't think he has done a book. He has a model of the line in his home which gets mentions in Model Rail irregularly. 

 

The best source may be our friend Keith Jaggers Jaggers_Heritage (jaggers-heritage.com). From the 2nd top line select Staines which goes to a general article with very detailed .pdfs embedded in it, including one about the Staines West line. - it doesn't seem possible to provide direct links to this. 

 

The only line I ever cabbed - my father used it daily to get to his BR office in Paddington and I went with him one Saturday and rode in the DMU cab. Although most trains were short and terminated at West Drayton there were commuter services through to Paddington - perhaps only one morning and evening.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

Edited April 10 by hmrspaul

[Re6/6]

Many thanks all. Much appreciated.

[chrisf]

Paul mentioned through trains from Staines to Paddington.  I've just had a quick e-rummage.  For many years the only one appears to have been on Sundays.  In 1955 it was an auto train and left Staines at 10.37 pm, arriving Paddington Suburban at 11.32 pm.  It then formed the 11.43 pm to Southall where it finished for the day.  By winter 1959-60 there was an 8.5 am dmu Staines -Paddington on Mondays to  Fridays, formed 3 car set, single power car and driving trailer, but no trace of the Sunday night working.  This was an interesting time: the plans to dieselise Paddington suburban services were disrupted by the late delivery of Class 117 and the need to borrow sets from elsewhere.

 

Chris 

[Re6/6]

Many thanks Chris. Interesting stuff.

[jointline]

4 hours ago, chrisf said:

Paul mentioned through trains from Staines to Paddington.  I've just had a quick e-rummage.  For many years the only one appears to have been on Sundays.  In 1955 it was an auto train and left Staines at 10.37 pm, arriving Paddington Suburban at 11.32 pm.  It then formed the 11.43 pm to Southall where it finished for the day.  By winter 1959-60 there was an 8.5 am dmu Staines -Paddington on Mondays to  Fridays, formed 3 car set, single power car and driving trailer, but no trace of the Sunday night working.  This was an interesting time: the plans to dieselise Paddington suburban services were disrupted by the late delivery of Class 117 and the need to borrow sets from elsewhere.

 

Chris 

 

The 1951 public timetable, the only one I have to hand,  doesn't give any through trains, but they were notoriously short on detail.  Often, as Chris says, the auto-trains from both Uxbridge and Staines went to the West Drayton Bay and then went on to Southall or Paddington;  I can remember travelling in one back to Hayes on a Sunday lunchtime.

 

With regard to a  book,  Chris Turner (who is author of many books published by Wild Swan) contacted me about forty years ago saying he was putting a book together, and I sent him a dozen or so pictures of the buildings on the line.  Perhaps it was well known that he was putting a book together, so nobody else bothered?

 

As has been mentioned above, Chris Leigh is the real authority.   He has a blog page, and there are pictures of his N gauge Staines West.  (https://www.model-rail.co.uk/online-features/chris-leigh-blog/'n'-gauge-progress/  and here:  https://www.model-rail.co.uk/online-features/chris-leigh-blog/countrystyle/)

 

There are some useful pictures of West Drayton in "Railways to Uxbridge" by C T Goode. 

 

If you need pictures of any of the buildings, particularly at Staines West, I may be able to help.  Here's one of the daily goods running round its train at Colnbrook:  because the points extended across road the gates had to be closed for such shunting movements. 

 

[jim.snowdon]

5 hours ago, chrisf said:

By winter 1959-60 there was an 8.5 am dmu Staines -Paddington on Mondays to  Fridays, formed 3 car set, single power car and driving trailer, but no trace of the Sunday night working.

Is it conceivable that, with this combination (5 cars is a lot for the Staines branch) that it split at West Drayton, with only the single power car continuing on to Staines and the remainder forming a morning peak working back to Paddington from either West Drayton or Uxbridge?

 

[jointline]

53 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Is it conceivable that, with this combination (5 cars is a lot for the Staines branch) that it split at West Drayton, with only the single power car continuing on to Staines and the remainder forming a morning peak working back to Paddington from either West Drayton or Uxbridge?

 

Just as a general comment, the formation mentioned (3car +1+1) was exceedingly uncommon, if not unique, and I can't ever recall seeing it (although I would have been on the way to school at the time of this particular one!)

3 car 117s were common on the Uxbridge branch. 

The driving trailers were also phased out quite quickly in my recollection (although perhaps somebody has better memory than me).  Traffic on the Staines line rarely needed anything other than a single car.

[jim.snowdon]

4 minutes ago, jointline said:

Just as a general comment, the formation mentioned (3car +1+1) was exceedingly uncommon, if not unique, and I can't ever recall seeing it (although I would have been on the way to school at the time of this particular one!)

3 car 117s were common on the Uxbridge branch. 

The driving trailers were also phased out quite quickly in my recollection (although perhaps somebody has better memory than me).  Traffic on the Staines line rarely needed anything other than a single car.

Although I can remember seeing driving trailers fairly frequently in the 1970s on the Greenford service.

 

[jointline]

16 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

Although I can remember seeing driving trailers fairly frequently in the 1970s on the Greenford service.

 

Oh absolutely, I was thinking more of Staines/Uxbridge. 

[Gwiwer]

Staines West in the diesel era was normally served by a single "bubblecar" with, often as not, more crew than passengers aboard.  A few peak time trips carried 5 - 6 passengers.  The chances of getting a request stop at the halts was fairly small with Poyle Estate and Yeoveney very seldom required.  I never knew anything more than a single-car down there and on the last couple of trips I made the family were the only passengers aboard all the way there and back.  

 

The Uxbridge Vine Street branch was busier but not really enough to justify the regular appearance of a 3-car unit of what later became class 117.  Off-peak it too was usually the single unit which at times was shared with the Staines West branch making alternate trips to each.  

 

Personally I have no recollection of through London services but I was rather young at the time and certainly not out and about late at night.  Such things - and indeed the five-car formation mentioned above - would surely have been for stock movement and not through any need of passenger traffic.  

 

My late uncle and his then young family lived backing onto the railway at Cowley station.  I inherited some of his collection of railway literature but there is nothing referring to either line in question here.  

[Siberian Snooper]

There is a series of videos on YouTube, London's lost railways, I think that West Drayton and Staines is the 5th or 6th one, it shows what's left. The series is quite addictive so expect to lose an hour or so.

 

Sorry no link.

 

[jointline]

38 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Staines West in the diesel era was normally served by a single "bubblecar" with, often as not, more crew than passengers aboard.  A few peak time trips carried 5 - 6 passengers.  The chances of getting a request stop at the halts was fairly small with Poyle Estate and Yeoveney very seldom required.  I never knew anything more than a single-car down there and on the last couple of trips I made the family were the only passengers aboard all the way there and back.  

 

The Uxbridge Vine Street branch was busier but not really enough to justify the regular appearance of a 3-car unit of what later became class 117.  Off-peak it too was usually the single unit which at times was shared with the Staines West branch making alternate trips to each.  

 

Personally I have no recollection of through London services but I was rather young at the time and certainly not out and about late at night.  Such things - and indeed the five-car formation mentioned above - would surely have been for stock movement and not through any need of passenger traffic.  

 

My late uncle and his then young family lived backing onto the railway at Cowley station.  I inherited some of his collection of railway literature but there is nothing referring to either line in question here.  

Spot on! 

 

In the absence of working timetables often the best indication of train formation around this area is the presence or absence of 1sf or 2nd class accommodation. Eg the train leaving West Drayton at 0405 in the morning in 1960 was advertised as 2nd class only, so was likely to be an auto-train/single car.  

 

1st class on the Uxbridge branch meant either a five car suburban set, or  117 unit. These were busy hours only. Curiously there was a break in trains between West Drayton and Uxbridge between 1000 and 1600 on weekdays.

 

I remember the driver of Staines railcar being annoyed as I once got off at Yeoveney on the down trip (to take photographs)  and then stopping him on the return  trip to get back on!

 

The only time I remember the train to Staines being busy was a Saturday morning, and that was in GWR railcar days.

 

 

[dibber25]

On 18/06/2021 at 07:40, Re6/6 said:

Does anybody know if there ever was a book published on the Staines and West Drayton Railway?

 

I've tried some book searches but to no avail. I have an idea that there was something published in the past.

 

Thanks.

There is a book in preparation. It has been in preparation for a very long time but is now getting near to publication, I believe. I was involved with it initially but have been 'in and out' over the years, depending on other commitments. If you have specific queries, I can almost certainly answer them, as it was my local branchline from 1962 until it disappeared under the M25 some 25 years later. You'll find references above to my friend Keith Jaggers' website. Keith knew Staines West a year or two before I did. I've modelled Staines west in various scales over the years. This is the current version - in 'N' gauge. (CJL)

[chrisf]

4 hours ago, jim.snowdon said:

Is it conceivable that, with this combination (5 cars is a lot for the Staines branch) that it split at West Drayton, with only the single power car continuing on to Staines and the remainder forming a morning peak working back to Paddington from either West Drayton or Uxbridge?

 

Afraid not.  The full diagram was as follows:

 

5.50 am empty West London - Paddington

6.38 am Paddington - West Drayton.  Van for Uxbridge attached

7.37 am West Drayton - Staines West

8.5 am Staines West - Paddington

An hour or so in Paddington Yard

10.18 am Paddington - Oxford

1.38 pm Oxford - Paddington

4.18 pm Paddington - Banbury

7.5 pm Banbury - Paddington

Empty to West London

 

There would have been significant changes to the workings in following timetables once the 117s started to arrive and the sets that had been borrowed were sent back.  One reason for using dmus at this time was to make room in Paddington for the augmented Paddington - Birmingham service while the West Coast was being electrified.  It did not help that the borrowed sets did not have the facility to clip up the ATC shoes which would have fouled the electrified fourth rail into Paddington Suburban.

 

Chris

 

EDIT:  In the summer 1961 cwp the 8.5 am Staines - Paddington is shown as two 3-car sets.

Edited June 19, 2021 by chrisf
omission

[jointline]

52 minutes ago, chrisf said:

Afraid not.  The full diagram was as follows:

 

5.50 am empty West London - Paddington

6.38 am Paddington - West Drayton.  Van for Uxbridge attached

7.37 am West Drayton - Staines West

8.5 am Staines West - Paddington

An hour or so in Paddington Yard

10.18 am Paddington - Oxford

1.38 pm Oxford - Paddington

4.18 pm Paddington - Banbury

7.5 pm Banbury - Paddington

Empty to West London

 

There would have been significant changes to the workings in following timetables once the 117s started to arrive and the sets that had been borrowed were sent back.  One reason for using dmus at this time was to make room in Paddington for the augmented Paddington - Birmingham service while the West Coast was being electrified.  It did not help that the borrowed sets did not have the facility to clip up the ATC shoes which would have fouled the electrified fourth rail into Paddington Suburban.

 

Chris

 

EDIT:  In the summer 1961 cwp the 8.5 am Staines - Paddington is shown as two 3-car sets.

Interesting!   But Table 51 (Staines Branch) in the WR Public Timetables doesn't show this as a through train, although Table 50 (Reading to Paddington) has a note "8.5 am from Staines" against the 8.28 from West Drayton.

Neither does it show this as 1st and 2nd Class from Staines, so wonder if a ticket would/could gave been issued for 1st class travel?!! (Given this branch was advertised as 2nd Class only).

Typical of the time in that there was very little promotion of these branches, even when they could offer a potentially  attractive service. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by jointline

[jim.snowdon]

1 hour ago, chrisf said:

Afraid not.  The full diagram was as follows:

 

5.50 am empty West London - Paddington

6.38 am Paddington - West Drayton.  Van for Uxbridge attached

7.37 am West Drayton - Staines West

8.5 am Staines West - Paddington

An hour or so in Paddington Yard

10.18 am Paddington - Oxford

1.38 pm Oxford - Paddington

4.18 pm Paddington - Banbury

7.5 pm Banbury - Paddington

Empty to West London

 

There would have been significant changes to the workings in following timetables once the 117s started to arrive and the sets that had been borrowed were sent back.  One reason for using dmus at this time was to make room in Paddington for the augmented Paddington - Birmingham service while the West Coast was being electrified.  It did not help that the borrowed sets did not have the facility to clip up the ATC shoes which would have fouled the electrified fourth rail into Paddington Suburban.

 

Chris

 

EDIT:  In the summer 1961 cwp the 8.5 am Staines - Paddington is shown as two 3-car sets.

Interesting. All that I can think of as an explanation for running a 5- later 6-car train from Staines was that it coincided with a shift change in the factories that still existed on the Poyle and Colnbrook Trading Estates, although the two halts for these were no more than two cars in length. Only Staines West and Colnbrook stations had platforms that were longer.

 

[chrisf]

Jim, I suspect that the reason for 5/6 cars was the demand between West Drayton and Paddington, given the arrival time of 9.2 am - either that or operating convenience!

 

Jointline, through trains to and from Paddington are not shown as such in Table 51 - not in summer 1961, anyway.  Some travellers might have associated the column note P with a through train to/from Paddington rather than offering first and second class.  The two are not synonymous: the first train from West Drayton to Uxbridge was an auto or a railcar and started back from Paddington.

 

Chris

[dibber25]

15 hours ago, chrisf said:

Paul mentioned through trains from Staines to Paddington.  I've just had a quick e-rummage.  For many years the only one appears to have been on Sundays.  In 1955 it was an auto train and left Staines at 10.37 pm, arriving Paddington Suburban at 11.32 pm.  It then formed the 11.43 pm to Southall where it finished for the day.  By winter 1959-60 there was an 8.5 am dmu Staines -Paddington on Mondays to  Fridays, formed 3 car set, single power car and driving trailer, but no trace of the Sunday night working.  This was an interesting time: the plans to dieselise Paddington suburban services were disrupted by the late delivery of Class 117 and the need to borrow sets from elsewhere.

 

Chris 

There was certainly a weekday through 'commuter' train during my time (early 1960s) up in the morning and down in the pm. Looks like the afternoon return working went to Southall which is logical as that's where the DMUs lived. One of the oddities of the dieselisation was that some units had roller blinds with Staines West and other just had Staines. This was because around 1960 there was a plan to refurbish the wartime spur that linked the Staines branch to the SR Windsor lines and to run branch trains into Staines Central. The closure of the last half mile into Staines West would have eliminated the need for a bridge to carry the A30 Staines by-pass. However the SR reckoned they couldn't accommodate the trains at Central, so the scheme foundered but DMUs delivered during that time had blinds that hedged their bets. I think I've posted this elsewhere in the past but its a favourite picture and a rare one.  (CJL)

[flapland]

Found this in Google Maps on the Bath Road. Just south of the Concrete Factory.

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4792139,-0.5092155,3a,75y,37.86h,82.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sVb2qzv9mcNHeLjAvXEF8vA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Hopefully of some interest. Its not a area I know but thought a quick look.