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The SOMERSET & DORSET RAILWAY Bath to Bournemouth The Main Line and Branches


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13 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

Chris Handley's 'The Maritime Activities of the Somerset & Dorset Railway' has a map of Burnham from 1903. There are two lines running on the pier, that on the south side ran the whole length of the structure, the other was a shorter siding, about a third of the length, leaving the main line at the start of the pier. There is also a photo in 1908 of P&A Campbell's steamer the 'Waverley' calling to pick up a large crowd of passengers, probably for a pleasure cruise across to Barry or Penarth. By that time the pier was not owned by the railway. Their interests in it finished in 1905. The photo shows the junction of the two lines on the pier.

 

Sorry just edited post . I was questioning whether it was Waverley  as the Waverley I knew was on the Clyde . But you are correct P&A Campbell transferred their operations south with their Waverley which means their must have been two paddle steamers with the same name pre 1914, the P&A Campbell one and the NBSP one on the Clyde !  Didn't know that could happen 

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22 minutes ago, phil_sutters said:

Chris Handley's 'The Maritime Activities of the Somerset & Dorset Railway' has a map of Burnham from 1903. There are two lines running on the pier, that on the south side ran the whole length of the structure, the other was a shorter siding, about a third of the length, leaving the main line at the start of the pier. There is also a photo in 1908 of P&A Campbell's steamer the 'Waverley' calling to pick up a large crowd of passengers, probably for a pleasure cruise across to Barry or Penarth. By that time the pier was not owned by the railway. Their interests in it finished in 1905. The photo shows the junction of the two lines on the pier.

Ordered of Amazon thanks 

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4 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

 there are issues with the track diagram of Burnham on Sea too. This diagram dated 1921 shows just one track on the south side of the jetty but there is badly faded footage in colour showing two tracks on this video.

 

The 1883 & 1902 revision OS maps shows 2 tracks, the northerly about a third of the length of the southerly and a 1929 revision OS map shows just one track.

A much later OS map shows no tracks on the pier at all

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I'm still waiting for a book I once saw the cover of 'The convenience of the Somerset & Dorset' - a photographic survey of the toilets down the line.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Tim V said:

I'm still waiting for a book I once saw the cover of 'The convenience of the Somerset & Dorset' - a photographic survey of the toilets down the line.

 

 

Shouldn't that be "down the pan":jester:

 

 

There was a book about GWR signal box cats, their colours and markings.......

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13 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Shouldn't that be "down the pan":jester:

 

 

There was a book about GWR signal box cats, their colours and markings.......

I missed that book ...

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17 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Shouldn't that be "down the pan":jester:

 

 

There was a book about GWR signal box cats, their colours and markings.......

As ever an expert in the field of signal box cats would still always come to light suggesting we had missed the so and so ground frame's ginger moggie and whether it wore a collar with a bell or not when if fell foul of a passing pannier tank in 1941, as such the work must be regarded as incomplete. Directly any author goes into print there will always be more information on the topic that comes to light on any subject, as the release of any new book always stimulates further research, ho hum its all part of the fun of being a publisher.

 

We have another book on the S&D in preparation for next year, so be careful to be sure we get the next one spot on too.

 

Now where did I leave my register of cats and their pedigree whether pre-grouping or genuine moggies?

 

Kevin

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2 hours ago, melmerby said:

The 1883 & 1902 revision OS maps shows 2 tracks, the northerly about a third of the length of the southerly and a 1929 revision OS map shows just one track.

A much later OS map shows no tracks on the pier at all

Ok but how do you explain 8mm colour footage of the jetty showing two tracks?

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1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

Ok but how do you explain 8mm colour footage of the jetty showing two tracks?

8 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

I'd go with the movie over an OS map...... 8mm colour - probably fifties?

I'd go with clear black and white aerial photographs

 

in 1929 there is just one track, it is very clear: Aerofilm EPW027966

In 1953 the railway finishes short of the jetty at a buffer stop, but there is still one unconnected track on the jetty: Aerofilm EAW049744

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1 hour ago, melmerby said:

I'd go with clear black and white aerial photographs

 

in 1929 there is just one track, it is very clear: Aerofilm EPW027966

In 1953 the railway finishes short of the jetty at a buffer stop, but there is still one unconnected track on the jetty: Aerofilm EAW049744

I have my doubts about the dates for Aerofilms. There is a shot on the official Burnham site which is dated decades before the photo was taken.

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I have read book and sorry to say it's not one I can recommend. It's beautifully produced by Irwell but the author provides no references at all, and no index either. There is a 'Further Reading' list, but I get the impression that the author has mined this list to produce the book, that there is no original research contained within it.

If the S&DJR is your thing then it might be worth the £35, otherwise best wait until it's remaindered. 

The railway still waits for a modern history, Robin Attwell's book seems to be a long while ago. 

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1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I have my doubts about the dates for Aerofilms. There is a shot on the official Burnham site which is dated decades before the photo was taken.

Before you dismiss them out of hand, try looking at them properly.

Look at the motor vehicles in view and other clues. I would say the dates are pretty likely.

 

In the 1953 views there is a typical rear entrance DD bus of the period and plenty of typical cars. There is also plenty of bunting in High Street ( for the Coronation?)

Part of the remaining track on the jetty appears to be missing, would tie in with OS showing no track from around that period.

 

In the 1929 views there are hardly any motor vehicles, those that are mainly seem to have exposed wheels, there is an old lorry.

An interesting feature is a short w/b grounded railway coach body by the jetty. Gone by 1932.

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9 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I have read book and sorry to say it's not one I can recommend. It's beautifully produced by Irwell but the author provides no references at all, and no index either. There is a 'Further Reading' list, but I get the impression that the author has mined this list to produce the book, that there is no original research contained within it.

If the S&DJR is your thing then it might be worth the £35, otherwise best wait until it's remaindered. 

The railway still waits for a modern history, Robin Attwell's book seems to be a long while ago. 

Another one sadly with a half empty glass opinion to express freely to everyone, with almost 60% of the print run now sold, I can assure the readers of Penrith Beacon's dismissal that we will not be remaindering this title and it will most likely be sold out by Christmas, ho, ho. Also that we offer a 100% money back guarantee, so if he and any others are disappointed they are welcome to send their books back undamaged of course for a full refund if they purchased direct from us. As for original research on the S&D, how much more can there be to do in the reviewer's not so humble opinion that was missed perhaps, as it would be wrong to claim new research on the S&D when many will regard it as a subject I am sure that has been done to death already. "Oh gawd, not another book on the S&D"...

 

In these days of reduced print runs for railway publications the most important thing is getting the investment back, otherwise the publisher can hardly justify the next title to go to press. To do this, the majority of folk must be satisfied by the title once published, not just the few "experts" in the minority who endlessly demand more details on the exact shade of pre-grouping toilet paper supplied to the dunnies at Evercreech Junction between 1914 and 1919. Instead the majority want to be entertained and perhaps educated on the subject without their purchase becoming a reference work in the style of a telephone directory.

 

No doubt this will entice a response from the aggrieved reviewer and if he enjoys any supporters them too. Perhaps as another small publisher attempting to bring together something new on the subject in an already crowded market place, we may have some supporters who wish to be vocal too in their support, otherwise why would there ever be another book on the S&D published for fear of it not meeting the expectations of those "experts in their minority".

 

Onwards and upwards my friends, in a democracy the right of reply exists both sides of the fence.

 

Kevin

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1 hour ago, Strathwood said:

Another one sadly with a half empty glass opinion to express freely to everyone, with almost 60% of the print run now sold, I can assure the readers of Penrith Beacon's dismissal that we will not be remaindering this title and it will most likely be sold out by Christmas, ho, ho.

 

Kevin

And good luck to you. It must be difficult these days finding titles to publish with a good chance of selling the print run.

 

Had I not had the two earlier titles, I may well have taken the plunge.

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For some folk their glass is always half empty and their expectations higher than the moon. For Igor who has sent a couple of to be honest spiteful emails to me privately through RM Web since, he obviously has an axe to grind. However, he still chooses to continue hiding behind a false identity on RM Web, this is in spite of my offer to refund him in full and pay for the return of the book he claims to be dissappointed with. For this one bad remark I can honestly say I have taken by telephone, email and by letter a good number of positive comments from delighted customers. So as the former President of the US once said " You cannot please all of the people all of the time".

 

So for this one remark from someone who still prefers to keep his copy rather than accept a full refund and his identity secret, I retain the right of reply, as it states on my website I will give a no quibble money back guarantee. Now I wouldn't do that if I thought everyone shared Igor's oppinion.

 

So go ahead purchase in confidence.

 

Kevin Derrick

Strathwood Publishing

 

This post is from 16 April 2014 and is in response to an unfavourable review of Strathwood Publishing's book on the Class 24/25 series.

It looks to be very similar to the response earlier to my criticisms of the S&D book and neither address the issues expressed by the reviewer  

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1 hour ago, PenrithBeacon said:

For some folk their glass is always half empty and their expectations higher than the moon. For Igor who has sent a couple of to be honest spiteful emails to me privately through RM Web since, he obviously has an axe to grind. However, he still chooses to continue hiding behind a false identity on RM Web, this is in spite of my offer to refund him in full and pay for the return of the book he claims to be disappointed with. For this one bad remark I can honestly say I have taken by telephone, email and by letter a good number of positive comments from delighted customers. So as the former President of the US once said " You cannot please all of the people all of the time".

 

So for this one remark from someone who still prefers to keep his copy rather than accept a full refund and his identity secret, I retain the right of reply, as it states on my website I will give a no quibble money back guarantee. Now I wouldn't do that if I thought everyone shared Igor's opinion.

 

So go ahead purchase in confidence.

 

Kevin Derrick

Strathwood Publishing

 

This post is from 16 April 2014 and is in response to an unfavourable review of Strathwood Publishing's book on the Class 24/25 series.

It looks to be very similar to the response earlier to my criticisms of the S&D book and neither address the issues expressed by the reviewer  

Well it is this platform of media which allows me to place a response on behalf of the author of the book to address the issues expressed by the reviewer who still suggests his authority on the subject is superior.

 

The track diagrams are reproduced from the original track plans dated by the S&D at the time, obtained via Western House from British Rail – but of course the reviewer perhaps knows better. Ordnance Survey plans are notoriously incorrect when it comes to actual track layouts – anyone who has done any type of research would know that .

 

Finally – the new bit of research woven within the text and captions is the author Derek Phillips personal and intimate knowledge of the line being a driver and fireman on the Somerset & Dorset himself. To say anything totally new would be difficult as the line has been covered many times – add to this that at least 90% of the photographs within the book haven't been out before as such it has its own platform for uniqueness.

 

The reviewer trying to rubbish my original response choses to drag up another response to a singular opinion to another title which even in the last few days has received a positive response from another delighted reader. 

 

Once again I can put my money where my mouth is as the saying goes and repeat we give a no quibble money back guarantee on purchases direct from Strathwood, so once again order in confidence as we think the reviewer is completely wrong and likewise cannot or will not justify his grounds for such criticisms. 

 

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https://strathwood.co.uk/products/the-somerset-dorset-railway-bath-to-bournemouth-the-main-line-and-branches

 

Kevin

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18 hours ago, PenrithBeacon said:

The railway still waits for a modern history, Robin Attwell's book seems to be a long while ago.

Please explain - history is history.......

Perhaps you have unearthed new information and could with the author's/publisher's permission produce a supplement.......

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On 21/07/2021 at 16:27, Tim V said:

I'm still waiting for a book I once saw the cover of 'The convenience of the Somerset & Dorset' - a photographic survey of the toilets down the line.

 

 

 

Oh dear, you've got me started now...

 

I think the book you are after is "Scrubbing Days; Memories of a Great Western Lavatory Cleaner", one of those conveniently sized paperbacks from OPC, produced in a slightly bilious eau de Nil as I recall.

 

It was written by a John Brush, whose lesser known brother Carbon penned "Ozone over Oswestry" for David and Charles, a fairly obscure book on tramways in the Welsh Marches. Of Course sales were as nothing compared to "Great Western Steam 17" from Bedford Bruton, a series that just ran and ran.

 

Happy days indeed

 

Being serious for a moment, as a history I think you'd be hard put to improve on Robin Atthill's Somerset and Dorset Railway, beautifully written it stands to this day I think.

 

Of course it didn't have many pictures, but all these years later we can sit down with a copy alongside this splendid new book from Derek - how lucky are we!

 

£35.95 expensive - utter tosh!

 

Oops, I don't want to go sounding like a supercilious bookseller again, arf arf...

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27 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

 

Oh dear, you've got me started now...

 

I think the book you are after is "Scrubbing Days; Memories of a Great Western Lavatory Cleaner", one of those conveniently sized paperbacks from OPC, produced in a slightly bilious eau de Nil as I recall.

 

It was written by a John Brush, whose lesser known brother Carbon penned "Ozone over Oswestry" for David and Charles, a fairly obscure book on tramways in the Welsh Marches. Of Course sales were as nothing compared to "Great Western Steam 17" from Bedford Bruton, a series that just ran and ran.

 

Happy days indeed

 

Being serious for a moment, as a history I think you'd be hard put to improve on Robin Atthill's Somerset and Dorset Railway, beautifully written it stands to this day I think.

 

Of course it didn't have many pictures, but all these years later we can sit down with a copy alongside this splendid new book from Derek - how lucky are we!

 

£35.95 expensive - utter tosh!

 

Oops, I don't want to go sounding like a supercilious bookseller again, arf arf...

Have to pull you up Simon as I fear it wasn't John Brush it was the other brother Lou Brush... boom boom said Basil Brush.

 

Kevin

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14 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Robin Atthill produced The Picture History of The Somerset and Dorset, presumably to accompany his written history.

Exactly so, and it is another book that it is worth tracking down.

 

It was good for showing the earlier eras that have been mentioned above, as was Stephen Austin's "Somerset and Dorset Railway a view from the past".

 

Good to hear that there are some earlier views in the new book under discussion too.

 

There have been a lot of S&D books, which is no reason not to produce another one, or two or...

 

I like Spamcans myself!

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On 21/07/2021 at 16:18, melmerby said:

The 1883 & 1902 revision OS maps shows 2 tracks, the northerly about a third of the length of the southerly and a 1929 revision OS map shows just one track.

A much later OS map shows no tracks on the pier at all

As the railway stopped using the jetty in around 1905 and the lifeboat stopped using the main track for launches by 1930, rails on it after that would have been an irrelevance.  However there were still traces left as late as 1967, as can be seen in Chris Handley's book.

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