Flying Scotsman in trouble?

[SamThomas]

11 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

because it’s an icon so the museum can justify it in their plan whether various people outside approve or not

Clearly, you missed my point about public money. The NRM is (at least partly) public funded & thus accountable to the public.

11 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

Simply because many travel because of its history and enjoy that. Why is Mallard going to be any more reliable though?

(Personally I’d love to see her out again as the A4 is my favourite but accept it’s probably stuffed until at least 2038)

Again you missed my point.

FWIW I never inferred that Mallard would be any more reliable than FS.

11 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

So let’s not get equally inflammatory in response

Seems to be par for the course here.

11 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

oh gawd please not again it’s been done to death previously 

Maybe, you coulod have provided the requested information instead of complaining.

 

4 minutes ago, PaulRhB said:

because it’s an icon so the museum can justify it in their plan whether various people outside approve or not  

 

 

Simply because many travel because of its history and enjoy that. Why is Mallard going to be any more reliable though?

(Personally I’d love to see her out again as the A4 is my favourite but accept it’s probably stuffed until at least 2038)

 

 

So let’s not get equally inflammatory in response?

 

 

oh gawd please not again it’s been done to death previously 

 

Clearly, we will never agree, so I'll leave it at that.

[Grizz]

[Mallard60022]

1 minute ago, SamThomas said:

Clearly, you missed my point about public money. The NRM is (at least partly) public funded & thus accountable to the public.

Again you missed my point.

FWIW I never inferred that Mallard would be any more reliable than FS.

Seems to be par for the course here.

Maybe, you coulod have provided the requested information instead of complaining.

 

 

Clearly, we will never agree, so I'll leave it at that.

Baaaaaa.

[SamThomas]

34 minutes ago, russ p said:

Maybe it would be better if the NRM went back to firing it on coal rather than £20 notes !

I thought it was £50 notes.

[Grizz]

You got sheep with you????

[PaulRhB]

13 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Clearly, you missed my point about public money. The NRM is (at least partly) public funded & thus accountable to the public.

Again you missed my point.

FWIW I never inferred that Mallard would be any more reliable than FS.

Seems to be par for the course here.

Maybe, you coulod have provided the requested information instead of complaining.

 

 

Clearly, we will never agree, so I'll leave it at that.

Didn’t miss either point hence the  when I mentioned it was their decision based on the Museums objectives which they get funding for. All I pointed out is that’s their decision within their budget from the public purse. 

You said why not spend on Mallard not me so wondered why that was likely to be any different as it’s a similar age. 
Didn’t complain it’s just been debated to death on which bits are original on here and it’s not definitively known as there is speculation on certain parts that the museum hasn’t been able or chosen to comment on. So simple answer no one knows who’s published anything supported by facts over speculation. 
 

And why stoke the inflammatory stuff if you disapprove of it. Why not try a pleasant discussion as it’s a forum  

[PaulRhB]

20 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

I thought it was £50 notes.

More elusive than the loco itself  

[PaulRhB]

33 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Mmmm you’re right about the public loving it. But why not build a replica and thrash that about instead. They did it with Rocket…..if it is sooooooooo valuable then stop damaging it and use a replica, most Normals wouldn’t know the difference anyway. They don’t know Tornado is new….

To be honest if they stuck the plates on it 80% of the public wouldn’t know 

[Grizz]

Flying Scotsman was known as Scrapheap Challenge back in the early 2000s because when we used to marshal for it we never knew if we were going to get back home again….

[Simon Lee]

1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

 

Definitely FS

 

https://www.heritagerailway.co.uk/3082/flying-scotsman-repaired/

 

Although you are correct, Tornado also ended up there for assessment and repairs.

 

Thanks, had forgotten about that incident.

 

[Zomboid]

The thing with FS is that it was bought from preservation. It represents not only the LNER and BR (GNR might be a stretch), but also British steam locos post 1968. As far as "originality" goes, that's pretty meaningless when it comes to steam engines. Original to what? When it was built? When it last operated a normal train for BR? When it it was acquired by the museum? If you're going to run the thing then bits are going to be replaced over time.

[Darius43]

1 hour ago, SamThomas said:

Clearly, you missed my point about public money. The NRM is (at least partly) public funded & thus accountable to the public.

Again you missed my point.

FWIW I never inferred that Mallard would be any more reliable than FS.

Seems to be par for the course here.

Maybe, you coulod have provided the requested information instead of complaining.

 

 

Clearly, we will never agree, so I'll leave it at that.

 

You seem to have a lot of anger.  Do you actually like Railways?

 

Darius

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Grizz said:

You got sheep with you????

Nope, just you bleating on and on!  Your comments are just repeating old and outdated thinking which is quite sad really. I don't moan about supporting the B Of B Flight for example even if I don't like aircraft that much and I don't quibble about costs of items that (say) are bought for Museums across the Country and even used for educational and recreational purposes.

Every time Scotsman is discussed this sort of ill informed rubbish appears from people that now nowt about the thing except what they have read in the media. 

Like may other issues, many have different opinions, but you for some reason, seem to want to start an argument. 

P 

[Darius43]

5 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Nope, just you bleating on and on!  Your comments are just repeating old and outdated thinking which is quite sad really. I don't moan about supporting the B Of B Flight for example even if I don't like aircraft that much and I don't quibble about costs of items that (say) are bought for Museums across the Country and even used for educational and recreational purposes.

Every time Scotsman is discussed this sort of ill informed rubbish appears from people that now nowt about the thing except what they have read in the media. 

Like may other issues, many have different opinions, but you for some reason, seem to want to start an argument. 

P 

 

Err Grizz wasn’t the person you were crossing swords with.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Wickham Green too]

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Like it or not, it's the biggest celebrity steam loco in the UK ........ one of the few that the general public recognise and get excited about. .......

Except that the general public think it's called 'Flying Scot' and their uncle used to drive it from Euston to Penzance ............

[Mallard60022]

14 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

 

Err Grizz wasn’t the person you were crossing swords with.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Yes he was...he didn't like me suggesting he was bleating on.

Enough now though. He knows my thinking.

Cheers.

P

[Mallard60022]

2 minutes ago, Nova Scotian said:

Christ - the arguing going on here, is it going to change anyone's mind about how they feel about the locomotive? (I would guess no).

 

Is it going to change the commercial fortunes of the locomotive and owner? (I would guess no).

 

Have you rehashed this argument over again and again with no change in result? (I would guess yes).Does this reflect poorly on you? (The answer is yes).

I dropped by for an update on what happened and where - thank you those that posted where it was called in, and probable cause.

That's a bit harsh when folk are trying to counteract some rather childish comments about burning money and wasting Tax payers' money as well. Newer members forgetting that some of us old gits actually used to work with the damn thing. 

Cheers,

P

[25901]

Before this ends in a NRM bashing thread I must point out that Flying Scotsman is “NOT” operated or maintained by the NRM. Some people should do some homework.

[Darius43]

9 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Yes he was...he didn't like me suggesting he was bleating on.

Enough now though. He knows my thinking.

Cheers.

P

 

Yet more anger.

 

Me - I just like steam locomotives...and diesels, diesel electrics and electrics.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[newbryford]

2 hours ago, Zomboid said:

Like it or not, it's the biggest celebrity steam loco in the UK. Using it as the flagship for the national collection seems an entirely reasonable thing to do, as it's one of the few that the general public recognise and get excited about.

 

 

 

Agreed.

My office is next to Settle station and I regularly sneak out and watch the steam specials passing.

The one that always draws the largest gathering to watch it pass is FS.

Second is Tornado.

 

Whenever I'm on a local rail bridge with my camera, the conversation with passers-by often goes:

"What's coming?"

"A steam engine" is my reply

"Is it Flying Scotsman?" is usually the next question.

 

Whatever we think about it, it is quite possibly the most well known steam loco in the world.

 

 

 

[Bomag]

4 minutes ago, 25901 said:

Before this ends in a NRM bashing thread I must point out that Flying Scotsman is “NOT” operated or maintained by the NRM. Some people should do some homework.

 

Its operated for NRM by a contractor. NRM is responsible for the contractor and therefore is has joint liability in its operation and maintenance - either through the contract specification or supervision of the contract. However, venting so much bile on what sounds like dodgy coal is a bit much

 

The only really waste of money on the last overhaul was the tin of Brunswick green.

[cessna152towser]

9 minutes ago, 25901 said:

Before this ends in a NRM bashing thread I must point out that Flying Scotsman is “NOT” operated or maintained by the NRM.

That's the problem.    I wonder how many more of us here contributed generously to the brakes fund when the NRM had their restoration appeal going a number of years ago in conjunction with Steam Railway magazine,  and received our nice little certificates entitling us to a ride behind FS on the NYMR or SVR by invitation at some future date.   Still waiting years later, and when I raised the matter with NRM a couple of years back they still said they hoped to arrange a supporters' trip at some time in the future on some other heritage railway.   When the NRM bought Scotsman I recall the hype that they were purchasing it to make it the people's engine and make trips behind FS more affordable after restoration.

[petethemole]

4 minutes ago, Bomag said:

The only really waste of money on the last overhaul was the tin of Brunswick green.

 Well I like it the way it is now.  My memory of the last day in BR service, 14th Jan 1963:

[lmsforever]

They will sort out the problem and it will return to the great pleasure pf the population its worth watching and its better to be running than stuffed and mounted.

[Grizz]

Flying Scotsman is not the be all and end all. It is not the only Mainline registered steam loco in the UK. Personally I am indifferent to it. I have travelled behind it in the past on numerous occasions in a official capacity in Railtrack & early Network days to act as a steward (PWay Ops) to prevent drunk idiots wandering out onto open roads with cameras pressed to their faces whilst trying to film it. 
It is LNER ECML product, which we are not short of, given the number of preserved A4s etc. I do have a problem with supposed irreplaceable assets, whatever they are, being thrashed around the national network for the pleasure of the few who can afford the ever increasing prices. If it sooooooo important and irreplaceable then build a replica to the latest spec and wear that out. Funding it should be based on a sound business case and not ‘because it is soooo special’ and it’s probably the only steam loco the public know, apart from ‘Hogwarts Express’ , Thomas and Friends and Ivor the Engine. 
 

BTW if I wish to slag off something I will. Like it or lump, it makes me no never mind. I have spend my working life as a front line professional railwayman, at the sharp end of the job.

Edited June 19, 2021 by Grizz