Flying Scotsman in trouble?

[Pete the Elaner]

12 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Agreed.

My office is next to Settle station and I regularly sneak out and watch the steam specials passing.

The one that always draws the largest gathering to watch it pass is FS.

Second is Tornado.

 

Whenever I'm on a local rail bridge with my camera, the conversation with passers-by often goes:

"What's coming?"

"A steam engine" is my reply

"Is it Flying Scotsman?" is usually the next question.

 

Whatever we think about it, it is quite possibly the most well known steam loco in the world.

 

 

 

 

The most well known steam loco in the world is definitely Rocket.

Mallard is also more famous than FS because of a special achievement in 1938.

I find it annoying to be told FS is the most famous when it simply isn't true, but I can understand why. If you had spent a fortune restoring it, wouldn't you want to generate as much publicity for it as possible?

[Bomag]

22 minutes ago, Grizz said:

It is LNER ECML product, which we are not short of,
 

I have spend my working life as a front professional railwayman, at the sharp end of the job.

 

Sorry, how many LNER pacific locos are in mainline operation?

 

For a 'professional' railwayman you seem to lack the understanding of promoting railways to the public as something other than to go from A to B, either to use discretionary services or corporate image (as the LNER did). However much people dislike FS, the loco is cost effective at promoting NRM and railways in general. This is why it is still running, coal permitting.

 

For those that insist that 'their' alternative loco is more famous, the public don't seem to agree with you.

 

In light of your last sentence I take 'professional' in this case to be a Charted practitioner or equivalent, in your case a p/w design engineer at graduate level perhaps? Or do you mean employed by a company maintaining track?

Edited June 19, 2021 by Bomag

[Boris]

Get a grip folks, it's only a bloody train!

[Steamport Southport]

34 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Agreed.

My office is next to Settle station and I regularly sneak out and watch the steam specials passing.

The one that always draws the largest gathering to watch it pass is FS.

Second is Tornado.

 

Whenever I'm on a local rail bridge with my camera, the conversation with passers-by often goes:

"What's coming?"

"A steam engine" is my reply

"Is it Flying Scotsman?" is usually the next question.

 

Whatever we think about it, it is quite possibly the most well known steam loco in the world.

 

 

 

 

Only due to brainwashing and hype. Mostly from Alan Peglar who was a showman. Fair enough. 

 

In the official report about what locos should be saved they said it had no real historical or technical value. If it had survived in original condition, it's widely accepted that 4470 Great Northern would have been the one saved, not Flying Scotsman.

 

So all that "most famous engine" stuff is pretty much nonsense which has grown over the years. It was just one of a class of 78 identical locos. Many of which were just as famous. 4474 Victor Wild which competed with 4079 Pendennis Castle. 2555 Centenary which represented the class at the S&D Centenary.

 

When it went to Australia, remember they wanted Mallard instead.

 

The Americans had asked for 6000, 6100 and 6220*. Not Flying Scotsman.

 

First locomotive to reach 100 mph? It's in the NRM and is called City Of Truro. Even the LNER accepted that, that's why they saved it!

 

All it's claims to fame have been manufactured, most of them in the last 30 odd years.

 

 

*But got 6229 masquerading as 6220

 

 

Jason

[Michael Hodgson]

I find it hard to believe that one loco trying to burn non-inflammable coal could generate so much heat.

 

Afraid I missed it this morning - I was still asleep when it came through here quarter of an hour late.

[The Johnster]

8 hours ago, Craig1989 said:

Question is how does a steamer lose steam on the move is it poor firing or something else although?

Failure to make sufficient steam can be down to a number of factors, and I would think that poor firing (or for that matter poor driving) is unlikely in this day and age; steam crews are trained to a very high standard.  Poor coal is a much more likely cause, as supplies of suitable steam coal are becoming harder to source.  I don't know where FS's operators get their coal from but this sort of poor performance might well be the result of them having been let down and having to attempt a booked run on whatever they could get hold of, which may have not been up to the mark.  Coal that is too dusty or breaks too easily into small pieces will often clinker up into a solid mass that will choke the inlet of air from beneath the firebars at the bottom of the firebox, which will result in the fire not burning hot enough for the hot gases in the tubes to do their stuff, boil the water into steam. 

 

When the loco is running, the boiler has to boil water into steam more quickly than those three big cylinders use it, and if the loco is working hard with a heavy train they can use it pretty quickly.  Under normal conditions, the fireman can maintain a hot enough fire and top it up with fresh coal little and often so that excessive amounts of cold coal do not cool it down, and if a harder effort is needed, to climb a bank for instance, he can allow things to get on top of him to a certain extent because the fire can be rebuilt and pressure restored as the loco coasts down the other side; it is very much a matter of collaborating with the driver, whose job it is to use all that steam you've worked so hard to create, and your skill and experience.

 

But if things are not going well then this will be for a reason that will make the situation progressively worse as, too make up time, extra demands are being made on a boiler that has already proven to be performing inadequately.  A bad day will turn worse with the inevitablity of a Greek tragedy, as everything turns against you; the harder you work the worse it gets!   A skilled crew can nurse the boiler to minimise the problem, but timekeeping will suffer and there will come a point when the situation deteriorates so badly that it is time to call a halt to proceedings and declare the loco a failure.  In BR steam days this was not much of a problem, and a replacement loco would be coupled on at the next stop during the time the parcels were being unloaded without the passengers being aware that anything was amiss, but steam railtour running attracts attention and poor performance will be reported on; and FS is in the public eye and has to be kept out of the way of the timetable trains running at twice it's speed.

 

Another thing that will cause problems with steaming is anything that inhibits the free movement of the steam from the boiler to the cylinders, and, when it is exhausted, from the cylinders to the blastpipe and the chimney.  This can be a result of valve gear problems. leaking smokeboxes, or a build up of soot, ash, and clinker in the smokebox (dusty or small coal again).  If this is the case, at least some the tubes will probably be blocked as well.

 

On top of all this, any steam locomotive crew will tell you  that the locomotive itself has moods, and sometimes just doesn't want to play for no other reason than that it just doesn't want to play, and there is nothing you can do about it!

[newbryford]

3 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Only due to brainwashing and hype. Mostly from Alan Peglar who was a showman. Fair enough. 

 

In the official report about what locos should be saved they said it had no real historical or technical value. If it had survived in original condition, it's widely accepted that 4470 Great Northern would have been the one saved, not Flying Scotsman.

 

So all that "most famous engine" stuff is pretty much nonsense which has grown over the years. It was just one of a class of 78 identical locos. Many of which were just as famous. 4474 Victor Wild which competed with 4079 Pendennis Castle. 2555 Centenary which represented the class at the S&D Centenary.

 

When it went to Australia, remember they wanted Mallard instead.

 

The Americans had asked for 6000, 6100 and 6220*. Not Flying Scotsman.

 

First locomotive to reach 100 mph? It's in the NRM and is called City Of Truro. Even the LNER accepted that, that's why they saved it!

 

All it's claims to fame have been manufactured, most of them in the last 30 odd years.

 

 

*But got 6229 masquerading as 6220

 

 

Jason

 

You see it from a railway enthusiast point of view.

Quote any of the above names/numbers and the vast majority of the general public will give you a blank look. Some will recognise Mallard and a few CoT

 

TBH - if any A3 is more worthy than FS, then it's 2750 Papyrus

[Michael Hodgson]

1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said:

So all that "most famous engine" stuff is pretty much nonsense which has grown over the years. It was just one of a class of 78 identical locos.

 

Flying Scotsman isn't the most famous engine.  It was the most famous steam train, the 10.00 to Edinburgh subject of a very successful pre-war marketing campaign.  Having a loco by the same name just confused and compounded that glamourous public image.  But most of the public don't recognise any distinction between a steam engine and a steam train.  It's a famous choo choo, innit.

[Bomag]

41 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Only due to brainwashing and hype. Mostly from Alan Peglar who was a showman. Fair enough. 

 

In the official report about what locos should be saved they said it had no real historical or technical value. If it had survived in original condition, it's widely accepted that 4470 Great Northern would have been the one saved, not Flying Scotsman.

 

So all that "most famous engine" stuff is pretty much nonsense which has grown over the years. It was just one of a class of 78 identical locos. Many of which were just as famous. 4474 Victor Wild which competed with 4079 Pendennis Castle. 2555 Centenary which represented the class at the S&D Centenary.

 

When it went to Australia, remember they wanted Mallard instead.

 

The Americans had asked for 6000, 6100 and 6220*. Not Flying Scotsman.

 

First locomotive to reach 100 mph? It's in the NRM and is called City Of Truro. Even the LNER accepted that, that's why they saved it!

 

All it's claims to fame have been manufactured, most of them in the last 30 odd years.

 

 

*But got 6229 masquerading as 6220

 

 

Jason

 

You seem to be missing the point that public recognition is by default what make a loco 'famous'.  While it was eclipsed by A4s in the LNER publicity material in the mid 30's FS (both train and loco) were used as promotional material. The Americans (if you mean in 1927 and 1939) got what was new and shiny which meant streamlined (6220/6229) or bling. In both cases FS was not new enough or did not have enough brass bling.

 

As for 100mph, CoT may, or may not have passed 100mph depending on somebodies variable reaction times. FS was reliably measured.

 

As a LNER locos its over rated and people should be force to love and acclaim 69621 as the pinnacle of utility (dual braked, steam hated and fast of the mark); all hail Gods Electric Railway. Sorry? its not working!    

[Zomboid]

Fame is not and never has been linked to merit.

 

However FS is one of the most famous locomotives in the UK, it shares it's name with probably the most famous train in the country (definitely in the top few), and the public at large are much more excited to see it then they are anything else. Preserved lines have to run a special event when they use it for the weekend.

 

Mallard and Rocket might be in the same stratosphere of public awareness, but FS is the only one you can see puffing around.

[doilum]

The Fat Controller was not happy. He ordered an immediate conversion to bio fuel, a repaint into Brooklands green and renumbering as 60075 St Frusquin. That'll teach it some manners.........

[TheSignalEngineer]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

My office is next to Settle station and I regularly sneak out and watch the steam specials passing.

The one that always draws the largest gathering to watch it pass is FS.

Last time I saw FS running on the main line was north of Settle shortly after its last rebuild. There was just me and my wife watching at Helwith Bridge. We were joined by two coup[les who were dog walking and stopped to ask us what was happening when they saw me with my camera

[Phil Parker]

This thread is generating much more heat than light, so I think it's probably time everyone moved on. Thread locked.