New network of European sleeper trains planned (including Edinburgh)

[DavidB-AU]

A French start-up aims to run ‘hotels on rails’ from Paris to 12 cities across Europe, including Edinburgh, from 2024.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2021/jun/22/new-network-of-european-sleeper-overnight-trains-planned

[Fen End Pit]

That'll be when Edinburgh is back in part of the EU.

(runs for cover)

David

[Dungrange]

This proposal has already been discussed in another thread.

 

[DavidB-AU]

This is broader than Edinburgh as it covers other destinations in Europe.

[SRman]

I'm surprised London is not a destination on this too. Not so much for Paris to London, too short for a sleeper, but it would suit passengers from further afield such as Berlin/Hamburg/Copenhagen.

I like this idea, anyway.

Back in the 1980s, I wanted to get from Inverness to Leeds but wanted near-full days available in both places. I was travelling on a BritRail Pass, and found that to use a sleeper service I only had to pay the sleeper supplement - £11 at that time. So I left Inverness at 11:00pm (roughly), got to Euston at 7:00am, scooted across to Kings Cross and got the HST up to Leeds, arriving there around 10:30-ish, and I had had a full night's sleep. The bonus was that it was cheaper than staying overnight in a hotel.

Edited June 24, 2021 by SRman

[DavidB-AU]

33 minutes ago, SRman said:

I'm surprised London is not a destination on this too. Not so much for Paris to London, too short for a sleeper, but it would suit passengers from further afield such as Berlin/Hamburg/Copenhagen.

 

The startup is based in Paris so the proposed destinations are all 500-900 miles from there, which make sense for overnight journeys. If successful they may add new routes in future.

 

Even with Eurostar and ICE, London to Berlin is around 9-10 hours so a slower sleeper may not be as attractive.

[5944]

Not going to happen. If a company as massive as DB can't get approval to run through the tunnel, a little start up have no chance. 

[DavidB-AU]

DB did get operating certificate to run passenger services through the Channel Tunnel. The problem was getting the 407 certified to operate in Belgium and France which was more to do with protectionist politics than technical issues.

 

They don't need to be an "operator" as such. They only need to get someone else to haul their stock under a "hook and pull" contract. Depending on what is chosen as the eventual successor to the class 92 it may not even need a change of loco en route.

[Gordonwis]

On 24/06/2021 at 02:21, DavidB-AU said:

DB did get operating certificate to run passenger services through the Channel Tunnel. The problem was getting the 407 certified to operate in Belgium and France which was more to do with protectionist politics than technical issues.

 

They don't need to be an "operator" as such. They only need to get someone else to haul their stock under a "hook and pull" contract. Depending on what is chosen as the eventual successor to the class 92 it may not even need a change of loco en route.

 

And also 'the Greta effect' has changed thought processes in the last few years...

[Nova Scotian]

We have some of the Nightstar MK4s to sell back to you

Edited June 28, 2021 by Nova Scotian

[DavidB-AU]

1 hour ago, Gordonwis said:

And also 'the Greta effect' has changed thought processes in the last few years...

 

This shouldn't be underestimated. This is a major reason some state-owned European operators brought back sleepers.

 

An option that doesn't seem to have got much traction in Europe is sleeper seats, basically the same as many long-haul airlines offer in business class. These are used on a few trains in Australia. Doing a quick conversion they priced between a couchette and a private sleeper cabin.

 

[GoingUnderground]

On 24/06/2021 at 02:21, DavidB-AU said:

DB did get operating certificate to run passenger services through the Channel Tunnel. The problem was getting the 407 certified to operate in Belgium and France which was more to do with protectionist politics than technical issues.

I, probably mistakenly, thought that DB didn't go ahead with the services to Germany because they wanted to call at stations en-route in continental Europe, which on the journey back to the UK would mean chucking everyone out at Lille for baggage screening and UK Passport checks just like Eurostar have to do with certain of their services. 

[adb968008]

On 11/07/2021 at 17:53, GoingUnderground said:

I, probably mistakenly, thought that DB didn't go ahead with the services to Germany because they wanted to call at stations en-route in continental Europe, which on the journey back to the UK would mean chucking everyone out at Lille for baggage screening and UK Passport checks just like Eurostar have to do with certain of their services. 

Personally i thought DB  didnt start services because Eurostar bought German instead of French. DB seemed to silently let the whole thing go away, as did Eurostar quietly let their plans of servicing Germany go away too and both meet in Amsterdam instead… status quo remains with SNCF HS in France and DB HS in Germany. DB didnt reach UK but their valero fleet ended up +1 gratis due to the various issues that the DB Valero-D couldnt overcome, that the UK Valero-D fleet seemed to have overcome in the same timescale for the same competing routes.

but then again I am a young naive cynic, coincidence is probably just coincidence.

 

As for an all new sleeper, I think it yet again ignores the volumes of Eastern Europe to Western Europe economic migration traffic, they might not be coming to Britain anymore, but in absence of a train, thousands transit via coach daily across Europe. Aside of CAF who else is manufacturing LHCS these days ?

Edited July 24, 2021 by adb968008