TINGS 2021- a go go !!!

[bmthtrains - David]

If so few people were wearing masks I am glad I passed this year. Looks like it was a good show given the circumstances and I agree this year can’t be held as an example of the norm. I’m glad it was organised well and that those who attended enjoyed themselves, and hope the traders who went made enough money to make it worth while.

 

David 

[Edwin_m]

My first exhibition visit in two years I think, and left feeling fairly positive.  More space this year meant fewer stands but the reasons for that are understandable, and there were still some excellent layouts.  Traders seem to be concentrating more on secondhand, with Rails for example devoting the majority of their stand to it, perhaps because anyone wanting new is increasingly likely to just go online but with secondhand more people will want to see the item before buying.  It may also be a reflection of the drastic increase in prices of new N gauge stuff in the last few years.  

[grahame]

24 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

None of these traders is, as far as I am aware, banned from taking a stand, it's just that they have made a commercial decision not to. 

 

Good grief, no-one has suggested anyone is banned from taking a stand. I'm not sure where that idea would come from. And I certainly mentioned there are various reasons and excuses for non-attendance. Companies are free to make their own decisions.

 

There was a rumour going around that Peco were due to attend (a first at TINGS and possibly some compensation and exposure for the cancelled Warley show). And talking to one of the traders they said the commercial aspects of what they considered high stand rents affected what they brought along to sell as well as the stand size.

 

 

[njee20]

Im all for the second hand sales. Going stand to stand and seeing the exact same, current, items is annoying. 
 

Im not sure I really get your complaints, Grahame. Mercig has been there previously, but it’s not like he sells anything, just has eye candy, I guess he maybe gets a few commissions out of it. DMToys have made it clear they don’t want to do business with the UK post Brexit, refusing to remove German VAT from sales (or supplementing orders with a ‘handling fee’ which is miraculously equivalent to the VAT), so I doubt we’ll see them. UM and Peco Phil covered (rumours aside). 

[grahame]

1 minute ago, njee20 said:

 

Im not sure I really get your complaints, Grahame.

 

It's not a complaint - more a statement of disappointment. For a premier N gauge show it would be nice to see more businesses, traders and companies involved in N gauge attending. Especially those that offer a range of bits and kits as well as unique products.

 

 

[Ian Smeeton]

An enjoyable e day out to TINGS today.

 

Spent all my pennies, but returned with only 2 items out of the 12 or so on my list!!

 

Good to chat to the 2mm Association chaps, and nice to see @Phil Parker for a chin wag, too.

 

Brinklow, Dent Head and Meldon Yard were the stand out layouts for me. The trackwork on Meldon (British FiNescale) made it really stand out.

 

Those exhibitors that I spoke to were a friendly and helpful bunch.

 

My kit stash is increasing far too rapidly, so I had better get a move on before it becomes S.T.A.B.L.E (Stash Totally Above and Beyond Life Expectancy)

 

Thanks to all who made the show happen.

 

I hope that it was financially successful.

 

Regards

 

Ian

[mercig studios]

As Njee pointed out, I have nothing to sell so this is just a pure advertising exercise as well as connecting with customers so even at the best of times it is debatable whether it is worth the expense. Phil sums it up very well in his post, the stand fee is one thing but once you factor in travel expenses as well as at least 4 days of not working then you get a considerable outlay. So in the current climate, it was not a hard decision to sit this year's show out, I will be back next year.

 

Having said that I do agree with the general sentiment that Grahame makes but the question is how do you encourage small traders with interesting and unique products to attend when they do not have any hope of even covering their costs.

 

M 

 

[njee20]

I’d much rather you were diligently painting my 90 Ian 

 

I do get the sentiment, but I think conflating “the premier N gauge show” with needing everyone who specialises in N gauge to attend is unrealistic (if you’ll forgive me paraphrasing you, Grahame!). 

 

I personally think Warley is a better show, even speaking as an N gauge modeller. I’ll admit I enjoy watching layouts in any scale, but I don’t think TINGS is a really exceptional show. I enjoy it, but it’s actually pretty small, and I’ve tended to get more bargains at Warley. I’ve all but given up trying to get those little odds and ends at exhibitions, I’ve always found that even if the suppliers are there; the ranges are usually so big that the specific widget I need is out of stock! 

[mercig studios]

13 minutes ago, njee20 said:

I’d much rather you were diligently painting my 90 Ian 

 

 

Well silver linings and all that, you can be assured that by not attending this years show I will be getting to those at least four days earlier than if I had attended the show 

[fezza]

It was an enjoyable event but the content was a bit limited for something which brands itself as the main N gauge show in the country. If small traders are being deterred by high stall prices this is something that needs to be looked at. 

 

I also thought the overall number and quality of the layouts wasn't the best. Brinklow, Meldon Yard and the Japanese terminus were absolutely outstanding and worth the entrance fee alone but the rest didn't really rise above average.   Maybe some older layout builders  aren't yet willing to attend indoor events?

 

The scrums around second hand stalls were very unfortunate. There is really no point wearing masks if you are going to wrestle with a dozen strangers for twenty minutes for a couple of quid off a broken coach body.

 

Still, it's good to have exhibitions back!

 

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hello all,

 

I’d like to thank the organisers for making this one happen; it felt great to be back and really good to meet so many of our supporters and customers after so long away.

 

My understanding is that attendence was roughly 2/3 what would normally be expected which I think is a pretty decent turnout given the undoubted nervousness some may have had about attending large or crowded events.

 

There were some great layouts in attendance including the lovely Meldon West, Sandy Bay and the large Northumberland Club layout complete with environmental commentary...

 

 

 

 

 

The Revolution stand was busy most of the time; @TomE one of a number of people to photograph some of our newer items and samples.

 

 

I am not sure it is fair to say TINGS has ‘lost its way’; they can’t force smaller manufacturers to attend and for each it will be a balance between financial viability and the benefits of meeting customers and showing face (whether with or without a mask!). For me the show offered a great balance and while some previous exhibitors were not present new faces - such as Rails of Sheffield and KR Models - were there.

 

 

See you next year!

 

cheers

[Dragonboy]

13 hours ago, njee20 said:

I’d much rather you were diligently painting my 90 Ian 

 

I do get the sentiment, but I think conflating “the premier N gauge show” with needing everyone who specialises in N gauge to attend is unrealistic (if you’ll forgive me paraphrasing you, Grahame!). 

 

I personally think Warley is a better show, even speaking as an N gauge modeller. I’ll admit I enjoy watching layouts in any scale, but I don’t think TINGS is a really exceptional show. I enjoy it, but it’s actually pretty small, and I’ve tended to get more bargains at Warley. I’ve all but given up trying to get those little odds and ends at exhibitions, I’ve always found that even if the suppliers are there; the ranges are usually so big that the specific widget I need is out of stock! 

The trouble with Warley though for me and I suspect so many others is that it is far more expensive than many can afford these days with the way costs for everything seem to be rising. 
 

This means free cash for playing trains is just being squeezed and something has to give. Factor in the crush element that can exist at Warley means it’s likely never to see me again.

 

I take your point about traders not having the widgets you need as I had that myself yesterday but was asked to pop them an e Mail as they were sure they had what I wanted back home. This was a replacement pack of transfers I bought from BH Enterprises which I think I bought over 30 years ago!

 

 

 

[Dragonboy]

3 hours ago, fezza said:

It was an enjoyable event but the content was a bit limited for something which brands itself as the main N gauge show in the country. If small traders are being deterred by high stall prices this is something that needs to be looked at. 

 

I also thought the overall number and quality of the layouts wasn't the best. Brinklow, Meldon Yard and the Japanese terminus were absolutely outstanding and worth the entrance fee alone but the rest didn't really rise above average.   Maybe some older layout builders  aren't yet willing to attend indoor events?

 

The scrums around second hand stalls were very unfortunate. There is really no point wearing masks if you are going to wrestle with a dozen strangers for twenty minutes for a couple of quid off a broken coach body.

 

Still, it's good to have exhibitions back!

 

I too was very pleased to get the first exhibition under my belt as it were but was also similarly disappointed by the layouts on offer, with the exception of those you quote above. The Premier Exhibition for N gauge. Well if it’s the only one then possibly but it really was more League 1 standard. 

 

I think the greatest benefit I got from the show was the help and advice I received from a couple of the traders and the tease of future products to come when I was looking at the EP of the awaited Diesel Parcels unit. 
 

As others have commented mask wearing was limited. I chose to for the bulk of the time merely removing mine to clear the specs or to speak to a trader when we could do so at a safe distance. I certainly avoided the scrum at the second hand traders because that would have been asking for trouble I think.

[TomE]

The EP samples I photographed are viewable here. Thanks to Ben & Mike for the opportunity to have a close up look at some of the goodies heading our way soon. The Mk.5 stock in particular is going to be something very special indeed! 
 

Tom. 

[njee20]

1 hour ago, Dragonboy said:

The trouble with Warley though for me and I suspect so many others is that it is far more expensive than many can afford these days with the way costs for everything seem to be rising. 
 

This means free cash for playing trains is just being squeezed and something has to give. Factor in the crush element that can exist at Warley means it’s likely never to see me again.

 

I take your point about traders not having the widgets you need as I had that myself yesterday but was asked to pop them an e Mail as they were sure they had what I wanted back home. This was a replacement pack of transfers I bought from BH Enterprises which I think I bought over 30 years ago!

 

 

 

Is Warley materially more expensive than TINGS? Tickets are £16.50 (I’ve just checked) versus £11. Why would anything else cost more? If that extra £5.50 is pivotal then I guess you’re right, but all other comments about buying things are then totally moot. 

I get why people don’t want to go, I’m merely commenting that personally, whilst I enjoy TINGS, I prefer Warley. 

Edited September 13, 2021 by njee20
Quoting fail

[TheQ]

The problem with Warley is the parking, that adds another £16 to the cost..

Edited September 13, 2021 by TheQ

[njee20]

Go by train, lift share, park at Birmingham International. Even so, you’re talking about the price difference of less than a two axle wagon! Like I say, I get why people wouldn’t want to go to Warley because of the price, but specifically “more expensive than people can afford”? Surely you’d be skipping exhibitions entirely?

[TheQ]

Three changes of train on all routes, the earliest train would get me there by 11:50,  the last train back is 18:30 . The minimum cost of ticket £92 (return).  I'd have to pay to park at the station  where I'd start. It being about 10 miles from home... and there is no public transport to get me there.. 

Against 172 miles each way in the car at 40mpg -  so 9 gallons total, so £67ish, and I can be there all day. 

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by TheQ

[Steven B]

17 hours ago, Edwin_m said:

Traders seem to be concentrating more on secondhand, with Rails for example devoting the majority of their stand to it, perhaps because anyone wanting new is increasingly likely to just go online but with secondhand more people will want to see the item before buying. 

 

I'd suggest the large quantities of second hand stock may be more down to the very slow drip-feed of new models from Dapol and Farish. There just isn't the quantity of new models to fill a stand.

 

I've not been to TINGS for several years now, but on my last visit did feel that it had lost some of the more interesting small traders and was no longer attracting many of the bigger show-stopper layouts. Apparently as the show became more commercial they put limitations of the number of operators a layout could have to keep costs down. I'm not 100% sure but I also believe they don't provide lunch or drinks. This means large layouts with larger teams felt they'd be too much out of pocket in attending.

 

Steven B.

 

[woodenhead]

18 hours ago, Edwin_m said:

My first exhibition visit in two years I think, and left feeling fairly positive.  More space this year meant fewer stands but the reasons for that are understandable, and there were still some excellent layouts.  Traders seem to be concentrating more on secondhand, with Rails for example devoting the majority of their stand to it, perhaps because anyone wanting new is increasingly likely to just go online but with secondhand more people will want to see the item before buying.  It may also be a reflection of the drastic increase in prices of new N gauge stuff in the last few years.  

Rails being mainly secondhand is standard for their exhibition set up - it's much easier to remove a selection of secondhand from their shop store and sell than it is to bring a massive pile of new stuff that will may goose their inventory.   They would also be showcasing their exclusive models.  Hattons took it one step further and didn't bring anything to shows, they were too busy selling their planned models that retailing other people's products.

[osbornsmodels]

from our perspective it was a brilliant show, that was very well organised. What more can I say?

[Calnefoxile]

 

I had Lunch on Sunday with Chris Deith, the headshed of Meridienne Exhibitions, and he confirmed that attendance on the Saturday was lower than 'normal' but that they were satisfied with the attendance so far, he also confirmed that Avril sent out invitations to all of the Traders & Exhibitors listed to attend the 2019/2020 shows and a few traders & Exhibitors decided to not attend mainly due to Covid, he obviously wasn't going to tell me those who decided not to attend due to costs and I didn't ask that because as a Society, DEMU, don't have to pay (Neither does the NGS, 2mm Association etc.)

 

All in all I think that Avril & Chris managed to pull a decent enough show out of the bag, it never was going to be an all singing & dancing Exhibition as per previous years, yes I think there is a discussion needed about the Trader costs, but that has to be between them and Meridienne and nothing that we, as punters, can do about that. I do agree that more 'nuts & bolts' traders would be nice but as they are, in the main, 1 man bands then costs are obviously something that needs to be taken into consideration. I suspect that the 'big boy' traders/box shifters like Rails of Sheffield, Cheltenham Models etc. will still take more than their costs and so will always attend. Is there a way round the costs, well yes there is don't attend and tell them in no uncertain terms that "you're not attending as it's too expensive for the pitch" 

 

I also think comparing TINGS with Warley is unfair, TINGS is specialist show, Warley is normal, if much larger, Exhibition covering all aspects of Railway Modelling.

 

All in all I really enjoy TINGS and this year it was great to just see people in the flesh and not via a webcam on a zoom session.

 

Just my 2'penneth worth.

 

Regards

 

Neal.

[Dragonboy]

1 hour ago, njee20 said:

Is Warley materially more expensive than TINGS? Tickets are £16.50 (I’ve just checked) versus £11. Why would anything else cost more? If that extra £5.50 is pivotal then I guess you’re right, but all other comments about buying things are then totally moot. 

I get why people don’t want to go, I’m merely commenting that personally, whilst I enjoy TINGS, I prefer Warley. 

I was factoring in car park cost and also a program. 

[Phil Parker]

4 minutes ago, Calnefoxile said:

I do agree that more 'nuts & bolts' traders would be nice but as they are, in the main, 1 man bands then costs are obviously something that needs to be taken into consideration.

 

You still assumes that the biggest bill for any trader is the stand cost - as I've pointed out about with rough figures for a single trader, that the travel and accommodation costs are a very significant part of the equation when deciding whether to attend a show.

 

18 minutes ago, Calnefoxile said:

I suspect that the 'big boy' traders/box shifters like Rails of Sheffield, Cheltenham Models etc. will still take more than their costs and so will always attend. Is there a way round the costs, well yes there is don't attend and tell them in no uncertain terms that "you're not attending as it's too expensive for the pitch" 

 

And for many shows, the reply will be "well that's what it costs to put on a show". You can't expect events to run at a loss. If all the trade pull out because it's too expensive, the event folds. Exhibition hall hire, electricity etc. don't get any cheaper just because those paying for part of it can't/won't afford the bill.

 

The solution is to ditch the stand costs and pay traders expenses in the same way layouts are paid for. That way, the exhibition manager gets to decide who turns up and can bring in the balanced mix that people want. The downside is that ticket prices will have to go up make the event pay.

[Calnefoxile]

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

You still assumes that the biggest bill for any trader is the stand cost - as I've pointed out about with rough figures for a single trader, that the travel and accommodation costs are a very significant part of the equation when deciding whether to attend a show.

No I haven't......I clearly said 'Costs'  and I would've assumed that you would've realised that that would've meant ALL costs, sorry I didn't spell it out clearly enough for you to understand.

 

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

 

And for many shows, the reply will be "well that's what it costs to put on a show". You can't expect events to run at a loss. If all the trade pull out because it's too expensive, the event folds. Exhibition hall hire, electricity etc. don't get any cheaper just because those paying for part of it can't/won't afford the bill.

I never expected any show to run at a loss just for the delight of the Punter, if the Trade starts to tell the Organisers that their charges are too high, you are quite correct the Organisers can either say 'tough, that's the cost' and the show dies and the Organisers are completely out of pocket and we, the Punter, lose another show!!!! Or the Organisers find another venue that is cheaper. In this case there is no other Venue and so the Organisers can pretty much charge what they like and if the Traders don't like it the show dies.

 

1 hour ago, Phil Parker said:

The solution is to ditch the stand costs and pay traders expenses in the same way layouts are paid for. That way, the exhibition manager gets to decide who turns up and can bring in the balanced mix that people want. The downside is that ticket prices will have to go up make the event pay.

Finally something we agree on.....

 

regards

 

Neal.