Costs of running rail tours

[Mb1984]

Hello all.

 

It’s often made me wonder what are the costs involved in running a rail tour.

 

Does anyone have any info on this?

 

From hiring the stock and locos, network rail permission, staffing, etc.

I know West Coast Railways and LSL own most there stock and locos? So this cost isn’t a factor to them.

 

But in general, after ticket sales and then all the out goings, how much cash is left in the pot?

 

Thanks.

[Blandford1969]

I can't comment on the cost of staff or Network Rail access. However all locomotive owners have to 'cost' for every mile they run towards the costs of next overhaul. It goes without saying that running on the main line will by its nature cause more wear with higher loads and speeds than trundling round at 25mph on a preserved line. 

 

I suspect once all the outgoings on staff, rolling stock, loco costs and access there is not much left. That also tends to be why you don't see shorter trains as they do not cover the costs.

 

Best wishes

 

Duncan

[The Stationmaster]

Back in the mid 1990s I was initially charging £120 for the hire of a Driver for one shift and I was in fact at the low end of the market compared with some people although I was definitely making a profit on all hires at that rate.  I'm not entirely sure and I haven't got the figures to hand but my normal charge for a Class 37 was c.£750 per day (or part thereof) plus fuel at cost plus a small handling fee.  That price was comparable with the prices I had agreed with another operator for hiring in from them.  I also hired out Schaffenburg equipped match wagons at £75 a day but that was a very specialised market so I could basically charge what the customer was prepared to pay.

 

Going way back to the 1960s when I for a while dealt with hiring for filming and rail tours the latter were usually on a cost plus basis (plus anything from 25-50%) but a train was at a standard fee set by Regional HQ.  Charges for filming jobs were based on getting what the market would bear so when I did the deal for 'The Magic Christian' it showed a healthy profit on cost, no wonder my manager instantly agreed the price I was proposing to the production company.

 

I don't know anput current costs and its a long whiel since I was involved in hiring out preserved steam locos. 

[Ed-farms]

This is not confirmed but I did hear about 15 years ago that Network Rail charged £1,000 every time you uncouple or recouple to the train which was another reason to attach a diesel to the back to avoid uncoupling as the diesel can tow back to turn the stock 

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Ed-farms said:

This is not confirmed but I did hear about 15 years ago that Network Rail charged £1,000 every time you uncouple or recouple to the train which was another reason to attach a diesel to the back to avoid uncoupling as the diesel can tow back to turn the stock 

Well it definitely wasn't in the original Access agreements and charges but there was a set fee for providing a loco to assist a failed train which was originally £1,000.   All the instances I know of in respect of providing locos at both ends of a train were done by operating companies in order to save money (and occasionally time) providing, or hiring in, the necessary shunting staff to do the work.

[Mb1984]

The Stationmaster -

 

That’s interesting info, thank you.

 

What locomotives did you drive?
What routes where you signed off on?

[Not Captain Kernow]

Back in the late 1990s to early 2000s I used to hire an 8 car 319 to the Vauxhall Pensioners Association for their annual outing.  Each June we would pick up at Leagrave and Luton around 0800 and take them to Brighton for the day, returning from Brighton around 1800 ish.  We used the same driver (who took his own family out for the day on the train too!) with me as a steward and we charged them £5k.  The track access charges were about £2k from memory, which Railtrack (as it was at the time) used to do at a discount for goodwill.

 

They always had around 500 people on board, so it worked out around a tenner a head and always had a great party atmosphere!  One year I could not make it because it clashed with my wedding, so one of our Control Managers went in my place.  Just before the return journey the driver spadded at Lovers Walk with the ECS and derailed blocking the station and you can image the chaos caused.  It was so bad that even in Cornwall at my wedding (which had about 20 Thameslink ops staff attending!) we heard about it on the news!

 

It also reminds me that when I used to phone the Vauxhall Pensioners office they had an answer phone.  The message, recorded by the lovely secretary Doris De'Ath, said "Thank you for calling the Vauxhall Pensioners office.  Doris is not here at the moment, but please leave your number after the bleep............. now I just press this button here don't I?"  followed by the bleep!

[The Stationmaster]

18 hours ago, Mb1984 said:

The Stationmaster -

 

That’s interesting info, thank you.

 

What locomotives did you drive?
What routes where you signed off on?

The locos I hired out were from my fleet as were the other things such as match wagons while the Driver's were managed by our Driver Manager although I had  rathera lot to do with their  employment cob nditions etc and even more to do with their diagrams.

 

We'll say nothing about my earlier situation when I used to 'drive to work every day' when I was managing traincrew (a not uncommon practice on the Region I then worked for where people managing Drivers could well be 'put on the spot' by one of their men and duly sat in their seat).