Best couplings for reliable shunting - 00?

[EWS60065]

36 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

The wire is fixed rigidly (usually glued or soldered into a hole drilled in the buffer beam) to the far end of the wagon. There is enough spring in the wire for a magnet, either permanent or electro, to pull the dropper down. In some respects it is a hybrid with the coupling action of a S & W and the spring arrangement of an Alex Jackson.

 

It is really very simple to make. We use brass wire for the loop on the other end as we found that using steel wire could end up with residual magnetism, enough to pull an uncoupled wagon along if it was free running enough.

Ah great, thanks for the explanation 

[roythebus1]

I changed to using Kadees in the early 1980s when the NEM couplings became available and I was into modelling the current DB scene. they worked miraculously well including going up a spiral using Lima 1st radius corners and very long DB coaches!

 

Since then I've acquired a lot of BR stock and built a British layout.  So far no problems with Kadees or buffer locking

 

For cranked couplings, it's possible to crank the Kadee coupler arm using a the side of a soldering iron bit to slightly melt the arm and make a Z bend in it. the tightest radius on my layout is probably 30" and the main line is minimum 3', so no problems there. But my test track is a number of set track corners making double S bends. If the stock goes round there' it'll go anywhere.

 

[EWS60065]

14 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

I changed to using Kadees in the early 1980s when the NEM couplings became available and I was into modelling the current DB scene. they worked miraculously well including going up a spiral using Lima 1st radius corners and very long DB coaches!

 

Since then I've acquired a lot of BR stock and built a British layout.  So far no problems with Kadees or buffer locking

 

For cranked couplings, it's possible to crank the Kadee coupler arm using a the side of a soldering iron bit to slightly melt the arm and make a Z bend in it. the tightest radius on my layout is probably 30" and the main line is minimum 3', so no problems there. But my test track is a number of set track corners making double S bends. If the stock goes round there' it'll go anywhere.

 

That's good to hear. I like the sound of Kadees, only thing putting me off is pricing but hopefully I'll find some cheaper online somewhere.

Thanks

[roythebus1]

You can bulk buy packs of 50 couplings at a much better rate than the 4-per-packet price from the larger dealers. But best try a few bits of rolling stock first to see how you get on with them. But if you're fitting Kadees in boxes rather than NEM plug-ins, make sure to get the coupler height gauge. Getting that right and the knuckle distance from the buffer face or corridor connection is critical.

[brossard]

Yes, do try a few first to see how you like them.  Maybe a pack or two of #18 and #19.  I never found a use for #17 - too short.  I used #20 for coaches.  As I evolved I thought that the NEM couplings looked pretty naff as they are very obtrusive.

 

As Roy mentions, you can also fit the couplings in a "box".  These would be the #5 coupling.  The Kadee site has a bewildering choice but I always used #5 for wagons.  These are a bit more work to fit and need to be glued (something good and strong, not plastic cement) or bolted to the wagon.  ISTR, a 1mm shim was needed under the buffer beam.

 

Kadee sell Delrin screws and a tap.  You can probably adapt regular self tapping screws though.

 

John

[ejstubbs]

8 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

if you're fitting Kadees in boxes rather than NEM plug-ins, make sure to get the coupler height gauge

 

I'd get that even if you're only fitting NEM Kadees, due to the aforementioned 'droop' that can arise with fractionally over-sized NEM pockets.  It's also useful for adjusting the trip pin on couplings that have had an "accident" (I've even found some that weren't quite right out-of-the-box).  You can use ordinary pliers to adjust the trip pin but the Kadee pliers (#237) are the ones designed specifically for the job, and work well.

 

 

[ejstubbs]

8 hours ago, brossard said:

As Roy mentions, you can also fit the couplings in a "box".  These would be the #5 coupling.

 

IMO the whisker couplers (the #14x range) are much easier to use than the old-style ones with the separate spring.  Similar to the NEM couplings, you need to experiment with different length and different 'sets' (underset, centreset or overset) to find out which one works best based on where you can fit the gear box on each wagon.  I have a mix of #146, #147, #148 and #149 on my wagons; there's no single right answer* - and as with the NEM couplers the length needed will also depend on the tightest radius curves on the layout.

 

I prefer to mount my gear boxes using screws where possible, rather than gluing.  Kadee do a drill & tap set for the 2-56 size screws that they recommend for this job.  I get my 2-56 screws from modelfixings.co.uk though I'm sure other suppliers exist.

 

Someone on one of the other Kadee threads identified a source of bulk packs of the NEM and #14x couplings.  Here is the post in question.

 

* Although the question gets asked on here a lot.

[bike2steam]

Just taking the hook(s) off the loco on the standard coupling has done ok for me ( and improved the loco aesthetics).

[brossard]

4 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

 

IMO the whisker couplers (the #14x range) are much easier to use than the old-style ones with the separate spring.  Similar to the NEM couplings, you need to experiment with different length and different 'sets' (underset, centreset or overset) to find out which one works best based on where you can fit the gear box on each wagon.  I have a mix of #146, #147, #148 and #149 on my wagons; there's no single right answer* - and as with the NEM couplers the length needed will also depend on the tightest radius curves on the layout.

 

I prefer to mount my gear boxes using screws where possible, rather than gluing.  Kadee do a drill & tap set for the 2-56 size screws that they recommend for this job.  I get my 2-56 screws from modelfixings.co.uk though I'm sure other suppliers exist.

 

Someone on one of the other Kadee threads identified a source of bulk packs of the NEM and #14x couplings.  Here is the post in question.

 

* Although the question gets asked on here a lot.

 

Just trying to keep things simple for the OP EJ.  I thought the #5 had been discontinued but a check of the site shows they are alive and well.  I did experiment with various types but it always came back to #5 for wagons (pre-nationalisation types).

 

Agree that screws are better than glue.

 

Now doing 0 gauge, ah bliss. 

 

John

[roythebus1]

I use the 145s for wagons, whisker type springs already fitted, centre shank, suitable for most 4 wheel British wagons, just set them back as required from the buffer beam.

 

I use 10ba screws for fixing the coupling boxes because I have a lot in stock!

 

I'm currently fitting a lot of older bogie stock with the Keen close-coupling kit using Roco or Hornby KKs in rakes of coaches and Kadees on the outer ends. It whiles away many hours and as we don't have a telly gives me something to do.

[EWS60065]

Just seen all these recent comments about Kadees. Thanks everyone for saying the types they used for different purposes and where to find them cheaply. I think after all Kadees will be my best option. I always had them in mind since they are 1. Pre assembled (as in the actual couplings don't require building) 2. Pretty commonly used around other modellers so mixing stock is possible

3. Fit in NEM pockets, something I've making a point of fitting to all my scratch and kit built wagons .

[EWS60065]

On 29/06/2021 at 08:33, ejstubbs said:

Someone on one of the other Kadee threads identified a source of bulk packs of the NEM and #14x couplings.  Here is the post in question.

Does he still do this? Couldn't see anything like that on the website - was it a one off?

[Jeff Smith]

Just for information, Bachmann US has its own knuckle coupler similar in principle to the Kadee Whisker couplers.  It is all plastic except the jaw pivot pin, trip pin and spring.  It's usually only available in medium centerset and in the US costs about the same as a Kadee.  The performance is similar to Kadees.  They are used by Bachmann in some 0n30 applications as insulators between live chassis wagons.

[Sol]

Bachmann use many versions , just like Kadee   - prices are for sheets of 12 packs

https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=258_273

[Il Grifone]

Having used Bachmann's copy*, my advice is use the genuine article - it's metal for a start, though those springs are fiddly (threading them on a piece of wire helps to keep the blighters under control).

 

Take care adjusting the trip pin - I managed to break one the other day       Use two pliers, one to hold the pin next to the coupler head and the other to adjust it. You will probably need three hands....

 

*It was some years ago, but 60p a pair seemed like a bargain - it wasn't! The return spring for the knuckle is easily damaged and the coupling is then useless. It can be glued up and used as a dummy.

I understand there is an improved version, but at the same price I'll go for the Kadee every time.

 

There are some Chinese efforts on 'Aliexpress'. Does anyone know if they are any good?

[ejstubbs]

5 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

Take care adjusting the trip pin - I managed to break one the other day       Use two pliers, one to hold the pin next to the coupler head and the other to adjust it. You will probably need three hands....

 

Or you could use Kadee #237 trip pin pliers which are designed for precisely this purpose:

 

The U-shaped 'receiver' provides a fulcrum for the bending of the trip pin, removing any such stress from the joint between the trip pin and the coupler head.  No need to graft on an additional limb to manipulate a second set of pliers, and a much reduced risk of trashing a non-exactly-inexpensive coupling.

Edited July 1, 2021 by ejstubbs

[DutyDruid]

On 25/06/2021 at 10:48, GWR5764 said:

 

I've considered Kadees but heard they still have problems with shunting and seem the most costly too. MagNEMs or Hunts would be ideal but I don't believe there is any way of uncoupling those 'on scene'.

 

 

Hi.

 

Personal view: I have converted one of our Club exhibition layouts for Kadees and for the most part it works reasonably well, the only problems we have are, frankly, more associated with design of the layout and poor hand built track not suiting the siting of electromagnets where they would normally be.

 

There is a thread on the use of Kadees here: 

with lots of useful discussion on fitting couplings to some of the more obscure UK prototypes - including several ways of dealing with Bachmann "stepped" couplers.

 

Elliott

Edited July 1, 2021 by DutyDruid
forgot to sign it...

[EWS60065]

2 hours ago, DutyDruid said:

 

Hi.

 

Personal view: I have converted one of our Club exhibition layouts for Kadees and for the most part it works reasonably well, the only problems we have are, frankly, more associated with design of the layout and poor hand built track not suiting the siting of electromagnets where they would normally be.

 

There is a thread on the use of Kadees here: 

with lots of useful discussion on fitting couplings to some of the more obscure UK prototypes - including several ways of dealing with Bachmann "stepped" couplers.

 

Elliott

Cheers for that, I'll take a look. Can't say my trackwork is the best because there are some areas where the tension locks ride over more than others.

[DutyDruid]

31 minutes ago, GWR5764 said:

Cheers for that, I'll take a look. Can't say my trackwork is the best because there are some areas where the tension locks ride over more than others.

 

Yes, Can't say that "riding up" is a particular problem on Nictun Borrud; the problem we face with that layout is that the flangeways are not a consistent width and as a result propelling back through several of the formations - particularly the double slip - means that you can never guarantee exactly what angle a piece of rolling stock will be sitting on the track as it exits the formation and that makes coupling and uncoupling immediately past the formation a bit haphazard - but that's a topic for a track building thread I think...  

 

[locomad2]

Personally use the old peco/ Hornby dublo coupling mainly cause you can fly and hump shunt something you can't do with tension lock, plus easy to manual uncouple and if train derails

 

Yes issues with drop but once all stock checked very reliable metal ones been easier to adjust

[Il Grifone]

The Peco/HD* is my choice for British 00 stock (EM gets scale 3 link/screw couplings, but all EM is on hold), Kadees for American H0 and the Continental loop for everything else.

 

The Kadee No.5 is my preferred version. I've got some for NEM pockets but nothing to fit them too.

 

(I was going to suggest using the proper tool, but got interrupted by SWMBO and forgot to update. I must buy one....)

 

* The first plastic version of the Dublo coupling is definitely, 'legacy' only!

[EWS60065]

This seems to be causing issues. The wagon on the right has its coupling rigidly attached to the bogie so the coupling travels along the centre of the track as do the bogies. The loco on the left has a sprung coupling that can move side to side when pushed but as a default stays right in the centre of the body rather than moving with the bogie. This means that although it looks straight compared to the locomotive, it is swinging right away from the wagons and pulling them off the rails. I might have to consider bogie mounting.

[wasdavetheroad]

That's what I found as well so all my tension locks are being converted to bogie mounted and all freight stock to Hornby wheels and medium tension locks if possible. Medium type tension locks! I like the train set look 

[EWS60065]

1 hour ago, wasdavetheroad said:

That's what I found as well so all my tension locks are being converted to bogie mounted and all freight stock to Hornby wheels and medium tension locks if possible. Medium type tension locks! I like the train set look 

Ah right so not just me then. Sometimes the simplest can be the best if you're not too bothered about finescale.

[brossard]

Since you are interested in reliable shunting I thought a video shot last Friday might be of interest.  For some reason I can't link but it is on the FB link below.

 

Perhaps off topic but it does show reliable shunting in 0 gauge with correct couplings.  I was never able to satisfactorily shunt in 00 so I am over the moon with the performance of my layout.

 

BTW there are numerous videos of 00 trains on the club layout.

 

John

 

 

Edited July 4, 2021 by brossard