Standard 4MT build - Scale 7

[Adrian]

So here we go - the launch of building the Scale7 version of the MOK Standard 4MT kit. I've been itching to get started with this kit for a while and last week the Scale7 group produced wheels dropped through the door giving me the excuse needed, so I cracked open the kit and dived in.

 

 

I haven't yet decided on a specific example of the class, although to link in with other projects a Shrewsbury/Cambrian based example seems appropriate, so 80135 is a contender at the moment. Reading the RCTS book on the loco's, despite it being a standard design there were quite a few detailed variations in the class so a little more research is required before I settle on the one to model.

 

What do you get in the box? A veritable feast of fine parts!

 

 

8 - yes eight - packets of brass castings!

 

 

 

 

 

and 3 packets of fine nickel-silver etchings ( no etched brass in this kit for which I'm profoundly grateful - nickel silver is so much nicer to work with IMHO)

 

 

 

 

A set of wider etchings for Scale7

 

 

The solitary whitemetal casting is the firebox

 

 

add in all the nuts/bolts, wires and bogie springing units

 

 

and finish off with one photo illustrated construction guide

 

 

and you can now appreciate the effort that goes into producing the kit - just looking at the quality of the castings and etchings shows the care and detail that has gone into the kit.

 

I have no doubt that although it may look daunting at first glance that it will go together relatively easy as every thing seems to have been well thought out. Although I have a few modifications in mind which means that it won't be a straight from the box build, but that is entirely down to my own idiosyncratic preferences rather than any deficiencies with the kit, but more of that later!

 

Any questions or helpful corrections when I'm going wrong are gratefully accepted!

 

Adrian

[dikitriki]

Hi Adrian

 

Excellent.

 

I shall pull up my chair for this one.

 

I saw one part-built at Halifax and it looked very nice. It seemed to me though that the backhead was built into the cab which I would want to alter, but I don't know whether that was the builder or the kit.

 

I suspect that a number of the detailing parts I am using for the Fairburn have their origin in this kit, and they are mighty fine indeed. I have an MOK 80000 in my to do pile, so I shall look forward to your progress and comments.

 

Yours

 

Richard

[Ressaldar]

Hi Adrian,

 

best of luck with the build, as you say looks daunting, but once you get started, you just cannot seem to put it down. The MOK Southern Q1 that I built was the best produced kit that I have had on my workbench and was more than a pleasure to build. I've now been asked to build another one and jumped at the opportunity - but there is a Sidelines ex LMS diag D2046 Inspection Saloon to do first - an incentive to finish a model if ever there was one!

 

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

 

regards

 

Mike

[Pinkmouse]

Watching with great interest. How much was the kit and wheels BTW? Some of us belong to the wrong societies and don't have that info.

[Horsetan]

Wonder what it would cost to have those lovely etchings reduced to 4mm scale.....hmmm....

 

MOK's website is not operating at present, so just as well the postal address is shown in your photos!

[eldavo]

I've had my eye on one of these beasts since it was released so I will definitely watch what you are up to.

 

Cheers

Dave

[RedgateModels]

Those instructions are a credit to the producer. I have long advocated photos of the actual items in various stages of the build. Other kit manufacturers take note B)

[ozzyo]

Those instructions are a credit to the producer. I have long advocated photos of the actual items in various stages of the build. Other kit manufacturers take note

 

 

Redgate,

 

well that looks better than the instructions by D.J.H. in there 7mm kits that they have done using photos. One thing that I would like to see if you have to do any mods. in the kit to get it build (I dont expect it with this kit) is for them to let you know, and how to sort it out. Too many just say "and fit part a to part b some fitting may (will) be required".

 

OzzyO.

[Adrian]

Watching with great interest. How much was the kit and wheels BTW? Some of us belong to the wrong societies and don't have that info.

The Scale7 4MT kit is currently advertised in the Guild Gazette at £450 - along with quite a few more tasty items in the pipeline.

 

The S7 wheels from the ScaleSeven group work out at £18.33 per axle for the driving wheels and £12.52 per axle for the carrying wheels, plus £9.75 for the set of various crankpins,bushes and nuts. Also a motor and gearbox is required, it's designed around an ABC unit but I dare say many others would fit without too much trouble.

 

Adrian

[alcazar]

I noticed one thing, I think: moulded plastic brake shoes? Surely a step in the RIGHT direction?

 

And are the wheels modified Slaters, or someone else's entirely?

 

Does anyone know the cost of a Finescale 7mm one, NOT S7?

[Adrian]

I noticed one thing, I think: moulded plastic brake shoes? Surely a step in the RIGHT direction?

 

And are the wheels modified Slaters, or someone else's entirely?

 

Does anyone know the cost of a Finescale 7mm one, NOT S7?

 

In answer to your questions

 

Correct - the brake shoes are molded plastic items, and as you say a step in the right direction.

 

Yes and no! Yes the wheels are produced by Slaters, but no they have not been modified. The Scale7 group commissioned Slaters to produce the wheels to Scale7 standards, hence they are only available via the Scale7 stores. I'm glad that the Scale7 group has chosen to support this kit by producing the wheels as this seems to be a stumbling block for many considering Scale7.

 

I believe the narrow gauge version of the kit retails for about £400 - I'll check in the Guild Gazette when I get home tonight.

 

EDIT: Just checked - the narrow gauge kit is £395 in the latest Gazette.

 

Adrian

[Horsetan]

Those etches are beautiful - if only a 4mm scale reduction could be commissioned....*wistful sigh*

[Michael Delamar]

looking forward to seeing your progress on this Adrian

 

Im waiting for them to do a 9f kit, as theyre kits look so nice to do and Its the next loco I want to build

 

cheers

 

Mike

 

 

[Christian]

Wow! Adrian, an MOK Kit!

 

I nearly got one at the Telford show last year but when I went back they had sold out. I shall try again this year.

 

So have you started it yet, bet you itching and ready to go now.

 

I can't wait to see how you get on with this kit, there has been so much hype surrounding it.

[Adrian]

So have you started it yet, bet you itching and ready to go now.

 

I can't wait to see how you get on with this kit, there has been so much hype surrounding it.

Yes - guilty, as mentioned the wheels dropped through the letter box and just I had to make a start. Although I'm still forcing myself to stick a couple of castings on my Jinty before turning to the 4MT, which is good as it's forcing me to get that finished.

 

From what I've seen of it so far then the hype is entirely justified, the detailing is superb I only hope I can do it justice. Although I don't think it will be a totally "standard" build as I'm an inveterate fiddler and there are a few things I'd like to modify to suit my preferences.

 

So having opened the kit I'm just trying to figure out a few details of how everything fits together. Having seen the recent posts on miniature roller bearings and the Reynalds article in MRJ I thought I'd try it on this kit, so I'm just trying a couple of ideas for fitting roller bearings. Also the rear bogie, although sprung from the body, as supplied is a rigid unit, again I'm trying to work out if I can modify it to have a little compensation between the rear bogie wheels. Finally the motion - much prefer using steel as I think it looks better than nickel or brass being the right colour. So I'm trying to decide if I should try replacing the motion with steel components!

 

Adrian

 

 

[Rob Pulham]

I too will be watching with interest Adrian as I have the MOK 8F when I pluck up the courage to start, albeit as you put it the "narrow gauge" version.

[alcazar]

"Narrow gauge"..........I love it.

 

I'm SURE I remember someone building a Black 5 in P4 in MRJ quite a number of years ago and he commisioned the valvegear etched in steel. It looked awesome.

 

Could you do the drawings? Maybe get some etched up and sell a few on to cover costs?

 

BTW: this is NOT a loco I'd EVER have any use for, but I still fancy one. I built one of his 4mm 08's in the late 70's, now THAT was well ahead of it's time too.

[Adrian]

I'm SURE I remember someone building a Black 5 in P4 in MRJ quite a number of years ago and he commisioned the valvegear etched in steel. It looked awesome.

 

Could you do the drawings? Maybe get some etched up and sell a few on to cover costs?

I remember that Black 5 as well, as you say it did look good. Unfortunately I'm not a great fan of etched motion either, it seems such a fiddle sweating the various layers together. The intention was to make up the motion from solid bar stock.

Adrian

[LNERJP]

Hi Adrian

 

I belive you and I may be a bad influence on each other, as I have now also made a start on fetling of parts. All the Chasis etches, spacers and ash pan where cut out in under two hours, and as I was just starting to think what a quick build this might be I turned my attention to the castings, cleaning up 394 lost wax castings may slow the build a little . Orders where placed yesterday for the motor gearbox and wheels, so hopefully I shall be ready to start in ernest, once other factors are in place.

 

J.p.

[Adrian]

I belive you and I may be a bad influence on each other

Probably! You'll have to help me when I get stuck.

 

Anyway a few more details on progress. For the Scale7 version of the kit the instructions recommend the first thing to do is remove all the narrow gauge etchings from the sheets and putting them to one side to prevent you accidentally using the wrong piece in the build. I prefer to cut out etchings using a piercing saw to minimise damage but I didn't fancy cutting out all those pieces for no immediate gain, plus taking out various etchings makes the remaining sheet more fragile. So instead I went through the etchings with black marker pen putting crosses on all those components that have a Scale7 replacement.

To make sure that I got every component I ticked off the equivalent item on the Scale7 etched sheet. Note: on the Scale7 sheet I think there is a small mistake as there is one component marked 305 which I believe should be marked 320. It's only a minor thing as it's all part of the rear bogie suspension and it's quite obvious which piece fits when you put it together.

 

The instructions then move onto cutting out the frames and making up the hornguides and suspension. The kit is designed for the gearbox to be mounted on the rear driving axle, probably fixed. Then there is a pivot bush to solder in as the centre and front driving axles have beam compensation. My own preference is for sprung suspension so I haven't progressed this any further while I work out the options.

 

In the meantime I looked at the feasibility of fitting miniature ball races to the axleboxes. It's not something I've tried before but I thought if it's good enough for Tony Reynalds then it's good enough for me! Also I'd like to see if it really does offer a marked improvement in running. So I bought a set of FR156zz ball races from rcbearings (excellent service and very competitive prices). The outside diameter of the bearing is 5/16", same as the supplied brass bearings. I wondered if I could bore out the supplied bearing to accept these ball races. The boring tool I have for my lathe wouldn't do anything this small but the mini-lathe handbook by Dave Fenner had a few details about making various D-bit tools. I'd seen various articles about this but it's not something I've tried before so I thought I'd give it a go and see how it worked. So this is what I ended up trying.

 

I got a short length (2") of 5/32" silver steel round bar. At one end I filed a flat on the bar down half way to the centre and a depth of just over 1/8", this was because the bearings are 1/8" deep. The silver steel was then hardened by heating to a cherry red and then quenching in water. It was then cleaned up and tempered to a light straw colour. Although by the time I'd quenched it the colour ended up being a pale blue - a lesson to learn for next time! I then got a bit of rectangular steel bar out of the scrap box, drilled and reamed a 5/32" hole in the end, from the side a couple of holes drilled and tapped 6BA for clamping screws. This was then mounted in a tool holder and set at centre height.

 

I have an independent 4 jaw chuck so to locate the axlebox I mounted a 3/16" silver steel bar in the tailstock and used this to hold the axlebox in place whilst I tightened up the jaws, a couple of attempts and I got it running fairly true.

 

The bearings were then carefully bored out for the ball races using the D-bit. The depth of the flat providing a useful depth indicator. On one test piece I bored it out to exactly 1/8" depth, unfortunately when I inserted the bearing the inner race was touching the brass bearing and it was apparent that it was adding a bit of friction. So you do need a whisker over 1/8" on the depth. Once the housing was bored out the remaining 3/16" brass bearing was opened up slightly by running the D-bit through the last bit as I didn't want the axle to catch on the brass bearing.

 

So this is the final result. From left to right, the ball race, the original brass bearing, a bored out brass bearing[1] and finally a ball race fitted to the bearing.

[1] You can see on the bored out bearing that the brass has spread out a bit on the centre of the flats. The brass bearing is 5/16" across the flats and the ball race is 5/16" in diameter so I half expected to break through slightly whilst boring out, instead the brass being soft just spread out a bit. Once I'd fitted the bearing adding a bit of loctite then a quick fettle with the file returned it to 5/16" across the flats.

 

So that's as far as I've got - 2 practice pieces followed by 2 bearings from the kit, still another 4 bearings to complete, I've still to see how it works out in the chassis. I just hope I can tell the difference in the running after all this effort!

 

Adrian

 

 

[3 link]

Hi Adrian,

 

Just a quick line to say I am thoroughly enjoying this thread of yours, and it has kept me engrossed for the last 30 minutes. I just wish other kit manufacturers ( not all ) would take heed of how MOK is leading the way in kit design and exploded diagrams and pictures, rather than the usual "I wonder where this bit goes ".

 

All the best, Martyn.

[Horsetan]

The lathe photos are particularly useful lessons.

 

Perhaps this entire thread, once the loco is complete, should be turned into a PDF document for download. It really is shaping up to be something that would be a deligght to read again and again.

 

At this point, all I can say is...."Wow...."

[ozzyo]

Hello Adrian,

 

enjoying this thread already, I have always fancied doing an MOK kit myself it would be the 8f, but back on track. Have you checked the fit of the axles in the bearings yet as they can be a few thou. up or down. Are you going to do the same on the bogie and pony axles?

 

In one of the other w/b threads I think it was on the building of a Fairburn tank the chap used a cast Std.5 bogie I dont know if its the same one as on the Std.4 but it looks the dogs whats its.

 

Now come on faster that man dont keep us all drooling (if you have to give up work for a few weeks so be it) .

 

OzzyO.

[ozzyo]

Finally the motion - much prefer using steel as I think it looks better than nickel or brass being the right colour. So I'm trying to decide if I should try replacing the motion with steel components!

 

Adrian

 

 

 

 

 

 

Adrian,

 

you could have a word with Bill at Premier Components and see if he would do you a set in steel.

 

OzzyO.

[richard carr]

Adrian

 

Its all looking very good.

 

You can buy tiny boring bars from J&L Industrial they are about £20 each, made from solid carbide and you can get them small enough to do a 3mm hole. They are very useful for telescopic axles as making a D bit that will bore to a depth of say 15 mm is difficult and time consuming, I have made them before but I would rather buy these.

 

 

Richard